Having Aspie friends damaging to my development?

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If only you and your parents could team up to deal with this...

Yes, whenever I made a friend that didn't stick around, they were always NTs... I think the problem was simply that we couldn't understand each other well enough to bond, and just drifted apart. The people I've made long-term friendships with are always one or more of: Autistic, eccentric, individualistic, introverted, ADHD, disabled, immigrant, unpopular, nerdy... Sharing the experience of being on the outside of mainstream culture seems to really help. And most of them have shared at least one strong interest with me, which really helps cement a relationship with someone like me, because it gets around my inability to bond in the traditional manner by providing an easy way to spend time together doing something or discussing something we both like.

The only NT friend that I have is pretty mean and we don't get eachother very well at all ( as you know ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo). The only other experiences of NTs trying to intereact with me more than casualy was something of a disaster - she pushed me into the school canteen, which produced a screaming panic attack kind of thing, watched by 400 amazed onlookers XD

She has since stopped trying to 'cure' me.

I can't begin to imagine how much of my "social development" was impaired by well-meaning NT adults with good intentions but bad ideas. All the best to you and your friends, Aqueo.

Last edited by JetLag on 04 Mar 2009, 8:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Um, so let me get this straight.

They SEGREGATE the AS kids all into one class, regardless of grade level (I sincerely HOPE that you're receiving age-appropriate work), and they get ANGRY when they start talking and making friends with the other AS kids?

How else do they expect you to act? They don't allow you to have much interaction at all with the NT kids, you see the AS kids ALL DAY. Their actions heavily imply that you "aren't supposed" to be interacting with the "normal" kids, so what ELSE are you going to do? Lose-Lose situation, here.

It seems here like it isn't the fact that "your development will be damaged", because they certainly aren't making interacting with your NT peers any easier. If anything, this "freak/ret*d" treatment that the AS kids are getting at your school is only making it HARDER.

It seems like the main purpose is to make you ashamed of having AS. Having friends with AS would enforce the belief that AS isn't such a bad thing, and it seems that they don't like that. The fact that they have you in a segregated classroom only makes this even more obvious. You're in a segregated classroom because they want to drill it into your head that you are somehow incapable of keeping up with the "normal" kids, and that if you were to be present alongside them, it would cause everyone too much of an inconvenience.

It really depends on why the segregated classroom is there, though. If it's there because most of the aspies have weird learning styles and need different sort of teaching, or because they'd go nuts in a regular classroom, or because they need some other service that's hard to give in a regular classroom, then it's necessary. Preferable, in fact.

Separate facilities aren't necessarily discrimination. I mean, is it discrimination to provide a wheelchair ramp next to the stairs, because you are forcing the wheelchair user to go to a different route than other people? 'Course, if your wheelchair ramp is a rickety slippery wooden thing that'll collapse any second, I can see the argument for discrimination. But if it serves the same purpose and it's the same quality as the stairs, it makes perfect sense. Same goes for offering Aspies a separate education, if it's the same quality and they're having fewer problems there than in a regular classroom. I don't believe in "mainstream if at all possible", I believe in "mainstream if it's the most beneficial". The school system, of course, tends to either mainstream anybody they can, to save money, or else shove everybody they can in a sped classroom, to stop the teachers having to "deal with" them.

First, I want to say this: despite the prospect of suddenly losing essentially all of your friends, your primary concern seems to be the well being of your friends. Good for you.

In High School, if I had been banned from being friends with geeks, nerds, or outcasts, I would have gone from about 2 to 4 friends (depending on how you count) to 0. I have had no friends before, at times, and I can assure you that that's worse for your social development. It's also considerably more depressing.

Well, I think if this is your experience with NTs they shouldn't make you be around people who aren't nice. You can suggest you don't mind being around nice people but if they aren't going to be nice you would rather not be around them.

Maybe there's just something I'm not getting here.

Isn't the idea of an Autism Outreach program to provide a learning environment that is beneficial to those on the Spectrum?

It would seem to me that part of fostering such an environment would be to encourage social interaction - both inside and outside of the classroom - among the Aspie kids. With less of a concern about being the class "weirdo", said interaction would in theory make you a little more relaxed. The reduced anxiety due to being around those like yourself would allow more focus on the material being presented in the class. Not to mention, forming those friendships means people are more likely to have your back. Learning those social skills amongst yourselves would at least provide a foundation upon which to better socialize with NT's in the future.

Sounds to be like the SN people have that "freak" or "ret*d" perception of you (Gods, I hate it when people use those words like they're slang!) and see that bubble being burst. They see you are developing in ways that make you more than what they think you should be (i.e. the pejoratives stated above).

They may not understand that......and of course the knee-jerk reaction is to fear what they don't understand......and then hate what they fear. So yes, I think there is antagonism on the part of the SN - and you, your friends, and the parents (if no one else the dad with AS) needs to call them out!

PS - Aqueo, if the NT in question is mean and you don't go along well at all, that person does not deserve the title of "friend".

It goes both ways.

AS people need relationships with NT people because they are going to have to learn how to adapt to life in an NT world.

However, other AS people can provide a safe harbor of acceptance.

Too much of either can be damaging. All your time with other AS people means you aren't honing your NT adaptation skills. Too much time with NT people increases exposure to people who may reject you for not fitting in....leading to increased inclination to overall social withdraw.

I'd be really pee-ed off if I was told that. Really if you anjoy hanging out with your aspie friends you should be alowed to, I have aspie friends and they haven't damaged me at all, even if I have picked up the odd manerism. And if the teachers are saying that it's damaging then why did they seperate all the aspie kids anyway?
But I also think you should have a balance and practice more in an NT world too, so you get best of both worlds, which is what I do, yes being in an all NT environment can be a bit tricky at times but I just push myself.

Point taken.

But that still doesn't change the fact that the SN department complaining about the AS kids forming friendships with each other is very odd. The same is also true with implying to the OP that he needs friends his own age.

If the majority of the class that he's put into are still 13/14, and the only chances he has to interact with NTs are lunch and after school, then HOW can he be expected to form real friendships based on that? Especially considering that AS people tend to be slower to make friends than their NT peers. The fact that the majority of his friends are 13/14 and AS is entirely the school's own doing. So why are they angry?

The OP said that he has an NT friend, but that she's sometimes condescending towards him. Given the fact that he's in a segregated classroom and it's public knowledge that he is AS, it wouldn't surprise me if most of his NT peers treated him condescendingly. Like I said, the SN department staff are only making interaction with NT 17 year olds HARDER for him. Do they expect him to be happy with pity treatment like that from his NT peers?

If he continues to be a loner, and occasionally talks to a girl who is condescending, then "he isn't developing socially".

If he hangs out with his classmates, then he's "developing socially with the WRONG PEOPLE".

This entire situation is Lose-Lose.

Either the SN staff are being very irrational, or they have an ulterior motive for wanting to split them up.

My TA has gotten back to me today.

It looks like they're going ahead with it, but they're not making us go outside etc. Instead we're being split into different classrooms at break in ones and twos, and the rest of the time we're having one-on-one lessons individualy and joining the rest of our years for the rest of the lessons.

Oh that's ludicrous.

I only have normal friends. Some uncanny empathetic too. Some very popular.

Being together with them helps me work out and improve my social skills a bit. Not because they have 'normal social skills', but because I have people with whom I have a mutual relationship of some sort who are perfectly fine with me trying new things in my interaction, who are willing to give it a thought too and who accept how I do or say something even when it was inappropriate or strange.

Being together with them and others teaches me nothing about social skills. I need to learn that all by myself, from therapy or from other autistic people mentioning these things.

If I hadn't learnt about social skills before, I'd hardly be able to interact with my friends.

Which in return would mean I could work out and improve nothing either.

What your teacher(s) are saying is wrong. It doesn't hinder your development to be in contact with other autistic people, to form friendships with people who you like to associate with (even when they're younger or older than you). It can only help you.

I tell you something.

In my country the ASD centres (who administer therapies, spread information and participate in other activities that involve autism) pretty much all have 'social skills training' for groups of autistic children and teenagers only.

They intentionally put autistic children or teenagers together to have them interact with each other, acquire basic social skills, and learn about friendships (at best).

Because of their autism the same wouldn't be as possible with non-autistic people. Really, where do you put a child or teenagers who's supposed to learn how to participate and act in a game of, say, football or basketball?

Put them into a group of non-autistic people that doesn't want them in, doesn't treat them normally (because plainly, being autistic they're not normal) or at worst that even bullies them. Or do you put them into a group of autistic people that accepts the lack of social skills and is willing to wait and try until it works out and they're in and who will let them participate in the game and that figures out how to successfully play in some way despite all the individual and common struggles?

The reason for putting together children to learn is that they can help each others and learn from each other's mistakes and successes.

An autistic child or teenagers cannot learn to acquire appropriate social skills and normal body language from just watching non-autistic peers. They cannot learn from others if they're the only ones who do those very special mistakes that non-autistic people won't make.

But an autistic child or teenager can learn from others who're like them by watching how they manage their interaction (even if they're unsuccessful), can observe their mistakes and learn from what they know and will ultimately discover together.


On a bitter note - now I see why qualities of therapies and treatment can so different. Some people don't know that much about autism spectrum disorders.

So there's going to be supervision and guidance? If this is the case it could be cool because it's more of a controlled setting, less chaotic and then later, perhaps it can be less of a controlled setting after they see how this works out.

That's wrong. It doesn't matter what they think, it's just not good taking away somebody's friends. At my school (it's mainstream, by the way) we even have an "Autistic Base" where mostly autistic people hang out, and I've made quite a few friends who are autistic/aspies and that hasn't caused my social deveplopment to get any worse. Your SN teacher obviously had the wrong idea.

It looks like they are using your autism against you.

Do they try to break up the other kid's friendships too because they are hanging around peers too similar to them??