12 Jan 2006, 2:04 am
12 Jan 2006, 10:02 am
foxysalamander wrote:
Technically, according to the DSM-IV-TR, if any of the criteria for inattention and/or hyperactivity/impulsivity are satisfied but occur "exclusively during the course of a pervasive developmental disorder" (e.g. Asperger Syndrome), then AD/HD diagnosis is ruled out.
Which confirms that the DSM doesn't always know what it's talking about, especially since the Attention Deficit Disorders are behaviorally defined anyways.
In my understanding, if the behavior is there for a behaviorally-defined disorder, then the disorder is there as well.
12 Jan 2006, 3:38 pm
Sarcastic_Name wrote:
I'm not like the sex thing. I find logic in the way the Christian religion has it set up. It prevents spread of disease, there's no standard of how "good" sex is because it's always with the same person, you know who's kid is who's, etc. Not saying I don't have impulses similar to what you're describing, but relying on instinct alone is a bad idea sometimes. I'm logical, as is my views on sex. After rereading what you said, I'm still not sure what your view of sex is. This group you're describing simply sounds like a ADH(D)/AS mix. If you want to give a name to it, you could at least back it up with some research and evidence it really exists. I've been here long enough to see members of groups like this come in and post about something along these lines, Star Children come to mind. While what you're describing is not as much spiritual (if at all), but more mental, it's hard to convince me without backing up waht you're saying. I realize the DSM is more than messed up, but it has years of research (etc.) to back it up. You have...what? You seem to be somewhat confused by the DSM, which is something I myslef might consider buying (or finding free) if I get the chance. I admit it kind of sucks to have a list of dx's rather than one word to describe you, but to change a system you have to first fully understand it. Going around and making groups like this won't change much. For all you know, the DSM might already have a word for you, or one in the works. I don't know what you're studying, but if you want me to take you seriously, get a degree in something.
Alot said here...and I respect what you have to say very much.
Sarcastic_Name wrote:
I don't know what you're studying, but if you want me to take you seriously, get a degree in something.
Hmmm... interesting concept. I do have a degree in linguistics... I also studied 3 years into a biochemistry program before switching to a cognitive science. But I am confused by the degree thing. Most of the great scientists (much of the foundation of our modern lifestyle) came from people who had little proper education.
Many fools have degrees. It is up to us to look at the data, the theories and models that explain the data and see if it has a strong possibility of being valid. A chimp could come up with a theory that I would consider valid if it met the test of Occam's Razor and explained the data.
I take anybody seriously who has an interesting insight... if they model the data clearly and that model is predictive...they win my understanding
The Models:
The cognitive models are simple, they model data gathered mostly in the last 20 years from many sciences. They are simple, predictive and verifiable through testing. They could also be completely off base. That is why I am putting them in a book.
Psychology is obsessed with catagorization without a basic understanding of how nature works...(Functionally). Asperger's and Autism are functional as are NPD, BPD, ADD and ASPD... It is just that the individuals are not living functional lives in many cases. I simply provide a simple functional analysis into the neurotransmitter, neurophysiological, behavioral, relational, and cultural nature of the human animal.
In the models...I am a primal human. I communicate through language just well enough to be understood (Odd thing is...I learned 3 of the darned things). I do not use "cpu cycles" to process culture...so I grasp at my world for personal understanding not societal. After the last messy relationship I had with a woman...I decided I had better figure this stuff out, lol!
I do not ask you to believe what I say at all...instead ask you to verify the logical underpinnings and see if it explains the world better to you. If not...create your own theory that is better, more explanitory and predictive.... then share it with the world
the original models sit here:
www.livejournal.com/~kusarinashi
Research:
I do have research behind what I am saying. The DSM is a mess because it views people as disordered...not behavioral patterns as dysfunctional...and it simply categorizes as opposed to explaining. This is a highly abstract approach that is suspect. It discounts the truth that humans are of nature and to natural rules we adhere. Nature is a child of "God" in the Einstein quote "God does not play dice with the universe"... Nature plays dice and only the winning bets make it...that is functionality on a biological level.
Biology is function
If biology is centered around function...then we can ask "why do these things exist?"
Man is not above nature but is ruled by it. Disorder is an abstraction that simply catagorizes groups...which is part of the human survival method...come up with abstractions call shared assumptions and build groups around them so you can share resources.
Regardless... I do not care whether you agree with me here...but if you don't...you had better have an understanding of what I am talking about...a lack of assumption that I am some silly wacko making stuff up so I can form groups (something I cannot join) and your own competing model that is verifiable and is predictive.
Autism and ADD happen in two different parts of the brain:
Autism is centered in communicative pattern recognition. (Mirror Neurons)
ADD is centered in memory storage. (High gray to white matter ratio)
when they exist together...you get a human that does not store "abstraction" (which culture is based around) and has limited understand of non-verbal body language (which is how preverbal humans (children) learn culture). This puts me in a primal state... I can understand culture at a distance...I just can not do it fast enough in order to make real time sense of it. I have given up trying to process it... I am opting for simplified models to help me understand it.
I am amoral but highly ethical and compassion driven...I do not join groups...I do not see why sexuality is wrong unless it hurts somebody... I love people at the drop of a hat and I am completly lost in this world...and I know it.
I am not bothered if you think I am a "wack job" for coming up with new ideas, lol!
12 Jan 2006, 4:10 pm
...Your self-description fits perfectly into a combination of things I've read online taken from the DSM. AS, ADD, and sometihng else...it's right there floating around in my head and I can't remember it...heard it before...argh!! !... 
12 Jan 2006, 5:35 pm
Sophist wrote:
In my understanding, if the behavior is there for a behaviorally-defined disorder, then the disorder is there as well.
I know someone who suffered a traumatic brain injury as an adult. To most people who are not aware of her medical history, she appears to be both moderately autistic and significantly mentally ret*d (in the "late development" sense) when in fact she is neither. She was both intelligent and NT-social prior to her injury.
Appearances count when providing palliative care, but any attempt at curative care based purely on behavior could be ineffective and/or dangerous. In the case of ADHD, there are components common to AS and some that are not. If someone's ADHD presentation consists entirely of AS traits and an AS diagnosis is justified then prescribing methylphenidate probably won't help.
The differentials in the DSM are there to ensure that effects having multiple potential causes are fully diagnosed.
12 Jan 2006, 5:36 pm
Sarcastic_Name wrote:
...Your self-description fits perfectly into a combination of things I've read online taken from the DSM. AS, ADD, and sometihng else...it's right there floating around in my head and I can't remember it...heard it before...argh!! !...
Alzheimer's?
12 Jan 2006, 5:47 pm
12 Jan 2006, 7:54 pm
ummm Cory... I suppose...
There are others too. We tend to synchronize our experiential models when we meet...oddest thing. Almost like we are not seperate people... freaky and strange...but the first time I have ever felt loved in my life...what a rush. I never knew what it was like to "feel" being loved...cool!
I like "primal human"...I am not disordered... just happily different... and childlike but responsible.
This is why I want to meet others... they need to experience that feeling if they have not
12 Jan 2006, 7:59 pm
12 Jan 2006, 7:59 pm
12 Jan 2006, 8:50 pm
Sarcastic_Name wrote:
Asperger's is a syndrome, don't know if that counts as disorder or not though. If you don't want AD(H)D to be a disorder, start an orginization opposed to that idea.
LOL!
I do not do groups, organizations or religions...I can't... I am clueless in them
I am writing a book instead and trying to find others like me. I think any notion of disorder is bunk...period. And syndrome....cripes...ADD is also a syndrome if you look at the definition.
I am not here to change how you or others view things...just expressing my own view
You can call these things disorders, syndromes or globuloms for all I care... words are too abstract to explain real world phenomena. That is why I prefer models. Disorder indicates that something is "out of the order" of the way things "should be"....Who decides what an "ordered" human should be? Is it the APA?
Disorder is a useless word as far as words go...and they are generally useless. It simply is a way for people who have some nutty notion that they understand reality (order) to define people like us out of that reality (disorder)... In fact AS and ADD are both much closer to reality than the disorderologists... but if they want to call everyone that has trouble in groups "disordered"... fine with me. They believe in something that only exists in their heads...human culture...it is a mass hallucination with a functional purpose and is driven by the fact that most humans store abstraction much better than other primates (in white matter).
I know where I am in the "real world"...I am lost in the illusory one. Let the pdocs build castles in the skies with their words. I am functional, happy and productive... I have fine relationships...and that is what matters in the end
12 Jan 2006, 9:20 pm
13 Jan 2006, 10:59 am
Jetson wrote:
Sophist wrote:
In my understanding, if the behavior is there for a behaviorally-defined disorder, then the disorder is there as well.
I know someone who suffered a traumatic brain injury as an adult. To most people who are not aware of her medical history, she appears to be both moderately autistic and significantly mentally ret*d (in the "late development" sense) when in fact she is neither. She was both intelligent and NT-social prior to her injury.
I have read of other case studies on Aspergers where some people had obvious brain damage (one boy in particular had damage to one of his Temporal Lobes-- though right now I can't remember which).
I don't think "Aspergers" is anything more than a categorization of similar behaviors, and that these behaviors are potentially triggered by different causes in the environment and genetics for different people. A lot of the individual symptoms of Autism mimic those of brain damage to various areas/functions. At first, I concluded that it must be brain damage and I haven't completely dropped that line of enquiry but it is also possible, depending on at what stage of development the environmental triggers occurred, that some cases might not be "damage" per se but "prevention" of intended development. Not really damaging the already in place structures, but for some preventing those structures from developing as originally intended.
But in order to separate this out, one would need to find the environmental triggers to the genetic reaction.
13 Jan 2006, 3:43 pm
I have ADD and AS among other things.
-SpaceCase
13 Jan 2006, 4:20 pm
