I met Tony Attwood today!!

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This explains a lot...
That's was when my whole labeling fiasco started.



I'm not laughing.
This isn't funny at all.

This makes me feel depressed.
It isn't your fault, just how I reacted to what you posted.

This isn't your fault, but this hurts, please...
Things like this make me feel useless and feel like I've been "played for sucker".
I didn't get the chance to whoopee anything up, not many people ever wanted to invite me anywhere.

This isn't helping me at all.

They haven't been exposed to the negativity and lies like I have.

How come all these people can galavant around, but I'm stuck?
How come other people accept their AS and not mine?

If I'm told by my family I don't have it then why am I still struggling?

This is a legitimate point, but if I don't have AS, it's almost certain that these social galavants don't.


What about people who really need the help then?

Wait....no...they get all the negativity and denial.
Oh and discrimination and ostracism.

It's the popular social people who say they have X, Y or Z that have an easier time of it.

Some of these so called AS people seem to be fairing far better than I am...
How?

^read your post AmberEyes and i NEVER mean to hurt.
I can definitely be a bit thick i the ToM and bluntness/tact departments.

I do not know what your experiences have been and i do not live in your world. I just explain things from my point of view and i am sorry if it does not accord with yours.

that is the beauty of WP....We get to see how differently each of us experiences things and the world.

If a dx has caused you harm and you have fallen victim to the calamities of "labelling" then that is a shame. there are others who haven't and whose experiences are to the contrary.

If you have difficulties with what i say, you can always also pm me.

no harm meant on my part.

WP is often mentioned.
he mentioned WP in passing when i saw him speak recently here in Brisbane, Australia.
My clinical psych who worked with the Attwood team for years also thinks highly of WP, which is really nice actually.

I never said he was im glad hes not a snob just saying to many famous people think they are above us.

I met him too, he does seem like a really nice (albeit a bit harried - so much demands on his time!) person. It was certainly a privilege to meet him.

I also met him. He seemed pretty nice. He signed my copy of The Complete Guide to Asperger's Syndrome. He didn't have time to talk to me though. He seemed like he was in a bit of rush. He probably has a pretty hectic schedule.

Luke

He was staring at me when I was swaying in his reception room. Does that count?

I think the problem is that too many people lack knowledge, or worse, hold mistaken ideas about what AS is.

It seems obvious to me that intense preoccupation that is interfering in other activities or preventing development in other areas, is not determined by subject matter but by the intensity and preoccupation and interference entailed.

I do not know if Dr Attwood is just being polite to people who are in fact being somewhat....er stupid, but sometimes I would rather someone with his standing would say more bluntly "it's not a different presentation when it's the same behavior with different content".

I guess he is maybe being tactful to help ensure people are willing to listen to the message, but I sometimes think that presenting the information the way he does, reinforces stereotypes about AS as a personality/demeanor rather than a cluster of traits that manifest differently in content, but are essentially the same traits.

Precisely. Your demeanor may differ a great deal from any random person with AS, but the point of AS is that a minimum number of a core suit of behavior-shaping traits will be present.

If someone does not assume that the presentation of AS is about demeanor and content details, rather than about the presentation of the core traits as wider behavior shaping factors, then it's quite clear that AS is not varied in presentation between the sexes even though people with AS vary in personality and demeanor, both between and within the sexes.


Misdiagnosis and missed diagnoses are harmful and I see the risk of both in many of the "odd" ideas and attitudes that seem to crop up in association with what AS is and how to identify it. While I agree with Dr Attwood in pointing out that people with AS are not all train-time table buffs, I am wary of conveying the need to not fall into this trap as being about "different presentations" and would prefer the approach you describe (where the actual trait such as "intense interest" is considered rather than superficial monkeying around with the content).

Also, am I the only one who finds this obsession with the detail of an intense interest's content, with a simultaneous inability to see the "big picture" (amongst those assessing/diagnosing/studying/opining about us) ironic? If we can see past the detail of the parts to the bigger picture, it is rather odd that those observing us cannot.

I know. I'm sorry.
It's not you, it's the ideas presented.

Given my situation, these ideas make me feel angry.
It's unfortunate.
Particularly about young party people choosing to be diagnosed because it's the "flavour of the month".

I didn't choose to be assessed, I was too young when it happened to have any say in the matter. When I was little, I couldn't appeal to be unlabeled or discuss things because they wouldn't listen to me.

I've often been left out of groups and not invited to many parties since then.

That's what set me off, I'm sorry.




Fair enough.
I appreciate your point of view.
I enjoy reading many of your posts.




It did cause me more harm than good and turned many sensible people against me.
They saw the label not me as an individual.
That is the danger of labels, people do judge.
It's really not something to be taken lightly.
I'd much rather struggle alone without a label than be treated as though I'm several years below my chronological and intellectual age.

I wish I could be one of those people who feel relief at being diagnosed.
It wasn't a "discovery" for me or my family at the time, it was a nasty shock.
When I was assessed, I was assessed because people believed that there was something "wrong" with me.

Even if I was re-diagnosed, I know that there wouldn't be any productive or positive help out there for me, given my past experiences.

I'm sure that this Attwood guy means well and I match many of his positive descriptions, but does this all have to be done with labels attached?

All labels have done so far is hurt me.

The phrase "people with Asperger's Syndrome" actually makes me feel like I've been kicked hard in the stomach given the treatment I've received. I don't feel ill. I don't "have" anything, I'm me.

So, I have intense focus and interests sometimes.
But do these really make me "defective" enough to warrant the label "disorder" or "syndrome"?

I am me, and if I do have a genuine physical, genetic condition that can be diagnosed scientifically and objectively, backed up with solid proof, I'd like to know about it sooner rather than later.

I don't understand this concept of subjective diagnosis at all.
This process certainly wasn't helpful or productive for me.
The negative label just made people more afraid and confused.

The people who assessed me didn't even tell me about what this "condition" was.
All useful information I've found only from this site, Attwood's site and the internet.
Before the internet, I really didn't have a clue because no one told me anything or were too frightened/ashamed to do so.

AmberEyes,

The label isn't you, no matter what people say; you're what you do, not what others think of you.

I find it really good to read your post here AmberEyes and to hear your perspective on this matter.
It is important your experiences are heard and shared and are appreciated and understood.
Your experience certainly highlights the dangers of labelling and the process of psychopathologising that western society has been so obsessed with in the 20th and 21st Centuries.

While questions can be answered because of a dx, it certainly seems harm can be done too. I see labeling as beneficial IF it answers questions that have been gnawing at one and causing interminable pain. (that is my experience as an adult dx'ed at 46.) there are a host of other issues raised by labeling - particularly in relation to children and their well being.

Inventor used an analogy recently in relation to labels that i find accurate. He said somehting along the lines that...It is not the title "serial killer" that is of any importance, but the number of bodies left behind.....
So, if the label makes sense of certain unfathomable experiences...that is a great thing.
And if not...what value is it? and can it do more harm than good? I now understand your perspective so much more clearly and i have learned from reading your post.

thank your for sharing your experiences> It certainly enlightens me and helps me to grasp others' perspectives on the issue (which at times is not my strong point unless it is clearly delineated.)

Good luck on the life journey.

It's widely recognized that aspies tend to be gullible, so no surprise there. What's significant is that the popular myth that aspies have a strong sense of justice is exactly that, a myth.

The gender-neutral terminology used by FAAAS and similar operations is as transparent as a missing windowpane.

Needless to say, if FAAAS was an organization dedicated to promoting discrimination against autistic women or autistic homosexuals they would never have been tolerated in the "mental health" profession and they would be unanimously condemned on wrongplanet.

It's also obvious that our enemy, Asskissing Attwood, never would have supported and promoted hate crimes against autistic women or autistic homosexuals. That would have reduced his income from seminars and book sales and his status as a celebrity. He's fully aware that nobody cares what happens to heterosexual autistic males and their children.

Unfortunately, allegations of sexism only apply in one direction and there's no such word as "heterophobia." The rights of children are defined out of existence. It's convenient for those who enjoy it and those who benefit from it.

Supposedly Asskissing Attwood's massive history of crimes against autistic people is perfectly okay because lately he's been doing a little less to support those dedicated to reducing understanding, opposing acceptance, and promoting prejudice against us.

Just human nature I guess. It's certainly nothing unusual for an utterly contemptible celebrity to have crowds of mindless adoring groupies following him around worshiping him while they're making excuses for anything he does, no matter how much it harms innocent people.

Still, I find it sad, and it gives little hope for a better future.

I found this very funny too (Sorry AmberEyes - I read what you said and can relate to it), because in my case it's so damn ironic. I was that college kid whoopeeing it up at parties and having a social whirl of a time... until I had a massive breakdown (that I should have seen coming a mile off - when you're constantly bursting into tears for no reason at least once a day every day for about a month, something's not right) last week and my parents took me home. Now I'm under constant watch, had to drop all activities that meant anything to me (a.k.a. running my choir) and am only allowed to 'attempt' working at the few uni subjects I have left (had to drop a course), with of course unlimited extensions on all assignments.

It sucks to high hell, and in the same vein I completely had it coming for trying to act like an NT.

Instead of rewriting presentation criteria a better approach would be making sure at risk youth have the services available to them and educated counselors available who know about ADHD and ASDs and that they can occur in both girls and boys. Some are still in the dark about ADHD believing it only occurs in boys. These are the kinds of erroneous beliefs that should be refuted. If they are, I am sure it will be easier to find the girls with ADHD and ASDs. The easiest way to figure it out is by observing the way they socialize and others reactions to them. Anyone who is having problems making friends in grade school, one can assume, is going to have problems relating when they are older so those are the ones you have to catch early. Those are the ones who are at the greatest risk of ending up in bad places when older. Their personalities are developing at different stages and you have to get the personality to accept support systems with other people instead of turning to things like drugs and alcohol to provide comfort. You have to keep them from experiencing a series of negative encounters throughout school so they won't become misguided and cynical during their teenage years.
You shouldn't label kids who are making and keeping friends and who are perfectly happy and doing well in school with a disorder.
I agree that AS can present differently in older men and women who already have developed a personality and depending on temperments and experiences, might have varying coping strategies which make their presentations appear different.

I agree totally.

But I don't think that others such as insurance companies; and some folks in authority and able to influence my future would agree if they knew about the label. What others think does matter in these cases. People do become afraid.

As far as they're concerned, I'd be an incapable stereotype or the label exactly.

This is why I deny the label, because the label would bar me from certain opportunities.

If it didn't bar me and people were more accepting, I could be a lot more open and sensible about the whole thing.

But I do hear you.
I'll try and do more things, but it used to be so hard when people were so judgmental.

I agree, but how could the help be delivered in a non-patronising, non-condescending and constructive manner.

I also think that there should be a proper objective, scientific means for identifying such people so that there can be no doubt.