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poopylungstuffing
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17 Jun 2009, 7:07 am

Dianitapilla wrote:
They can be comfused, but thay can also be co-morbid.

A person with an extreme ADD or with ADHD (combined type) with episodes of hyperfocusing can be wrongly seen as aspie and other thousand things similar.

A person with ADHD alone or combined type can be socially disable -asperger's kinda outputs like not knowing when to talk, interrupting people- .

Asperger's can be comfused with ADD and thousand things similars to it.

But the only thing that really defines if it's autism is having problems with the theory of the mind.

I have ADHD (combined type) and AS, I'm called "a messy ADHDer" also a "messy Aspie", but I've read about people that has ADHD (only) and AS they seem to be "less caothic but active and easily distracted" kind of aspie.


This sounds a lot like me...(the messy part)...I am a combined type ADDer/ assessed as having AS....

messy messy messy..



poopylungstuffing
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17 Jun 2009, 9:59 am

It is my assumption that people who have just ADD are probably less likely have the issues with eye contact, and motor skills, and sensory problems and (in my case) toe walking...and stuff like that...
and that is partly where the differentiation lies.

Perhaps with some people who are co-morbid, certain traits are dominant over others. I think my ADD traits are dominant over my AS traits...and in some ways counteract them....but the AS traits are still present.

I am too scattered to be rigid about certain things...for example..

I take a different bike route to and from work every day...(there is the constant)

I am too overwhelmed by everything to be able to keep things in order...though I do have a desire for order, and the constant disorder causes me a lot of stress..



Maddkow
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18 Jun 2009, 11:36 pm

^^ What you just said is basically how it is for me. :?


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20 Jun 2009, 5:24 pm

WardenWolf wrote:
Aspies and ADHD people sometimes do get along well, though.


Hm, this is interesting. People often wondered why my best friend and I get along so well since we're totally different people (he's very extroverted and I'm introverted).

He's extremely energetic and sometimes has difficulty focusing, and he's been called "a little bit ADHD" more than once. I also see something much like stimming behaviour occasionally.

It's fun, "diagnosing" those around you ;)



Michjo
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20 Jun 2009, 6:13 pm

People with the inattentive type of ADHD can pass as having aspergers easily



starygrrl
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20 Jun 2009, 10:06 pm

My boyfriend has AD(H)D. He can read body language, in fact like most people he heavily depends on it. He is socially natural.
But he also had a period of his life where he was socially impaired in some ways that might look like as or autism. But he was able to fix many of the deficits that people with PDD cannot correct. There is also natural social skills I do not have.



Dianitapilla
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22 Jun 2009, 2:51 pm

ADD and AS, don't think about the outputs, think about the logics behind. You have AS or you don't... it only can be defined by Theory of Mind Difficulties.

(from wiki)

Theory of mind is the ability to attribute mental states—beliefs, intents, desires, pretending, knowledge, etc.—to oneself and others and to understand that others have beliefs, desires and intentions that are different from one's own.[1]

Autism

The theory of mind (ToM) impairment describes a difficulty someone would have with perspective taking. This is also sometimes referred to as mind-blindness. This means that individuals with a ToM impairment would have a hard time seeing things from any other perspective than their own.[27] Individuals who experience a theory of mind deficit have difficulty determining the intentions of others, lack understanding of how their behavior affects others, and have a difficult time with social reciprocity
.[28] In 1985 Simon Baron-Cohen, Alan M. Leslie and Uta Frith published research which suggested that children with autism do not employ a theory of mind,[29] and suggested that children with autism have particular difficulties with tasks requiring the child to understand another person's beliefs. These difficulties persist when children are matched for verbal skills (Happe, 1995, Child Development) and have been taken as a key feature of autism.
Many individuals classified as having autism have severe difficulty assigning mental states to others, and they seem to lack theory of mind capabilities.[30] Researchers who study the relationship between autism and theory of mind attempt to explain the connection in a variety of ways. One account assumes that theory of mind plays a role in the attribution of mental states to others and in childhood pretend play.[31] According to Leslie,[31] theory of mind is the capacity to mentally represent thoughts, beliefs, and desires, regardless of whether or not the circumstances involved are real. This might explain why individuals with autism show extreme deficits in both theory of mind and pretend play. However, Hobson proposes a social-affective justification,[32] which suggests that a person with autism deficits in theory of mind result from a distortion in understanding and responding to emotions. He suggests that typically developing human beings, unlike individuals with autism, are born with a set of skills (such as social referencing ability) which will later enable them to comprehend and react to other people’s feelings. Other scholars emphasize that autism involves a specific developmental delay, so that children with the impairment vary in their deficiencies, because they experience difficulty in different stages of growth. Very early setbacks can alter proper advancement of joint-attention behaviors, which may lead to a failure to form a full theory of mind.[33]
It has been speculated[34] that ToM exists on a continuum as opposed to the traditional view of a concrete presence or absence. While some research has suggested that some autistic populations are unable to attribute mental states to others[35], recent evidence points to the possibility of coping mechanisms that facilitate a spectrum of mindful behavior[36]. In addition to autism, ToM deficits have also been seen in schizophrenics.

Defining Theory of Mind

Theory of Mind is a ‘theory’ insofar as the “mind” is not "directly observable."[2]. The presumption that others have a mind is termed a "theory of mind" because each human can only prove the existence of his or her own mind through introspection, and one has no direct access to others' minds. It is typically assumed that others have minds by analogy with one's own, and based on the reciprocal nature of social interaction, as observed in joint attention[3],the functional use of language[4],and understanding of others' emotions and actions[5]. Having a theory of mind allows one to attribute thoughts, desires, and intentions to others, to predict or explain their actions, and to posit their intentions. As originally defined, it enables one to understand that mental states can be the cause of—and thus be used to explain and predict—others’ behavior.[6] Being able to attribute mental states to others and understanding them as causes of behavior implies, in part, that one must be able to conceive of the mind as a “generator of representations”[7][8]. If a person does not have a complete theory of mind it may be a sign of cognitive or developmental impairment.
Theory of mind appears to be an innate potential ability in humans, but one requiring social and other experience over many years to bring to fruition. Different people may develop more, or less, effective theories of mind. Empathy is a related concept, meaning experientially recognizing and understanding the states of mind, including beliefs, desires and particularly emotions of others, often characterized as the ability to "put oneself into another's shoes."


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