Religion (or lack thereof) and Autism/Asperger's?

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(People with Autism/Aspergers Only) Religion or Not?
I am very religious, and attend religious services/meetings as often as possible. 9%  9%  [ 54 ]
I am religious, but do not always attend religious services/meetings. 8%  8%  [ 43 ]
I am religious, and attend meetings/services on occasion. 2%  2%  [ 14 ]
I am religious, but I rarely attend meetings/services. 9%  9%  [ 51 ]
I am confused in this area. 6%  6%  [ 35 ]
I am agnostic. 24%  24%  [ 136 ]
I am atheist. 42%  42%  [ 239 ]
Total votes : 572

Mysty
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08 Jul 2010, 4:54 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
Mysty wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
Mysty wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
A store clerk knowing people will stop in at their store is nowhere near comparable to a God that created us. The Christian God would have us believe we are free to make whatever choice we want and at the same time he gives us a set of 'rules' we are not to break... knowing we will break them?


No, that's not what Christianity teaches. Jesus came so that we wouldn't have to follow rules to be saved; so that we could be saved despite our imperfections.

I'd argue that even that actually points to a deeper spiritual truth. But the above is Christianity in a nutshell.


Depends on the denomination. I was raised Mormon, and that's not what I was taught.


Well, I'm going by what's in the Bible.

I can't, of course, vouch for what's in the Book of Mormon, but that's going beyond Christianity.


Which Bible? I used the KJV.


It's not different Bibles, just different translations. In my case, the New American Bible, The New Revised Standard Edition, and the Good News Bible.


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Mysty
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08 Jul 2010, 4:57 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
Mysty wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
Mysty wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
A store clerk knowing people will stop in at their store is nowhere near comparable to a God that created us. The Christian God would have us believe we are free to make whatever choice we want and at the same time he gives us a set of 'rules' we are not to break... knowing we will break them?


No, that's not what Christianity teaches. Jesus came so that we wouldn't have to follow rules to be saved; so that we could be saved despite our imperfections.

I'd argue that even that actually points to a deeper spiritual truth. But the above is Christianity in a nutshell.


Also, let's not forget a very important key element of free will is that God made us knowing that if he molded us a certain way we would make very specific choices. It's like me sticking ingredients of a cake into a cake pan and putting it in the oven, then taking no credit by saying "It's free to rise and become fluffy if it wants to."

There is no choice... it's how the ingredients react with each other.


Well, my reply wasn't meant to get at the free will issue; it was a reply to that idea of Christians having a set of rules we aren't supposed to break.


Considering I was talking about free will when you quoted me, I thought my assertion was relevant. Since you have skirted the question itself, can I assume you don't have an answer?


I was not skirting the question. I was addressing your misrepresentation of Christianity. You, in your post about freewill, made a claim about "The Christian God". I responded with my own interpretation. It's not skirting the issue. It's choosing to address a point in your post which I think is important.


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TeaEarlGreyHot
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08 Jul 2010, 5:09 pm

Mysty wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
So the only morality that is good is the one centered around the Abrahamic God? Or is it narrowed to the Judao Christian God?


Just curious: What do you mean?

The Christian tradition would have them be one and the same, referring to Yahweh. In a sense, Christianity expands that to include Jesus who, as God's Son, is one and the same with the Father. There is no difference, unless you're talking about something else, which I'd be curious to know.


Yes, the Judeo Christian God falls under the Abrahamic God but so do a lot of other religions. It's a common misconception that the Christian God is the only Abrahamic God.


Well, as far as God's existence, it's all one God. But different conceptions of God. We can talk about the God of Abraham, the God of Christianity, the God of Judaism, meaning, God as understood by Abraham, by Christianity, and by Islam. Or, in the various conceptions of God of Christianity, and of Islam.

And if one's idea of God is that God is a human idea, I can see talking about "the Abrahamic God" and "the judeo-Christian God" as if they are separate things, or overlapping, but one is talking about ideas of God, not suggesting one believes in multiple deities.


I never suggested there were multiple deities. I was speaking of the different religions that view the same god in different ways. The purpose of my question was to understand if a PP (can't remember who now) was suggesting the 'god-centered' morality was narrowed down to the Christian god specifically or if it was a broad term that encompassed all religions that worship the Abrahamic god.


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TeaEarlGreyHot
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08 Jul 2010, 5:12 pm

Mysty wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
Mysty wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
Mysty wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
A store clerk knowing people will stop in at their store is nowhere near comparable to a God that created us. The Christian God would have us believe we are free to make whatever choice we want and at the same time he gives us a set of 'rules' we are not to break... knowing we will break them?


No, that's not what Christianity teaches. Jesus came so that we wouldn't have to follow rules to be saved; so that we could be saved despite our imperfections.

I'd argue that even that actually points to a deeper spiritual truth. But the above is Christianity in a nutshell.


Depends on the denomination. I was raised Mormon, and that's not what I was taught.


Well, I'm going by what's in the Bible.

I can't, of course, vouch for what's in the Book of Mormon, but that's going beyond Christianity.


Which Bible? I used the KJV.


It's not different Bibles, just different translations. In my case, the New American Bible, The New Revised Standard Edition, and the Good News Bible.


They are different bibles because they say very different things. That was the entire point. Which 'translation' is right? The one your denomination declares so?


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TeaEarlGreyHot
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08 Jul 2010, 5:15 pm

Mysty wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
Mysty wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
Mysty wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
A store clerk knowing people will stop in at their store is nowhere near comparable to a God that created us. The Christian God would have us believe we are free to make whatever choice we want and at the same time he gives us a set of 'rules' we are not to break... knowing we will break them?


No, that's not what Christianity teaches. Jesus came so that we wouldn't have to follow rules to be saved; so that we could be saved despite our imperfections.

I'd argue that even that actually points to a deeper spiritual truth. But the above is Christianity in a nutshell.


Also, let's not forget a very important key element of free will is that God made us knowing that if he molded us a certain way we would make very specific choices. It's like me sticking ingredients of a cake into a cake pan and putting it in the oven, then taking no credit by saying "It's free to rise and become fluffy if it wants to."

There is no choice... it's how the ingredients react with each other.


Well, my reply wasn't meant to get at the free will issue; it was a reply to that idea of Christians having a set of rules we aren't supposed to break.


Considering I was talking about free will when you quoted me, I thought my assertion was relevant. Since you have skirted the question itself, can I assume you don't have an answer?


I was not skirting the question. I was addressing your misrepresentation of Christianity. You, in your post about freewill, made a claim about "The Christian God". I responded with my own interpretation. It's not skirting the issue. It's choosing to address a point in your post which I think is important.


I have not misrepresented Christianity. Granted, some of what I've said is unflattering, but that doesn't make it any less true.

That's neither here nor there. You've already said your peace when it comes to what you consider a correction. Now, would you please address the point you ignored?


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08 Jul 2010, 6:16 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
Mysty wrote:
It's not different Bibles, just different translations. In my case, the New American Bible, The New Revised Standard Edition, and the Good News Bible.
They are different bibles because they say very different things. That was the entire point. Which 'translation' is right? The one your denomination declares so?
Your bibles are not translations, they are interpretations. You should read the bible directly from Latin. You will get a completely different story than you ever thought was in the bible.


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08 Jul 2010, 7:00 pm

I'm religious in a small way but, I keep my own thoughts and beliefs to myself for, I wish not to be seen as Witch or something of the like.Anyways, that is where I stand on this sincerely...



TeaEarlGreyHot
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08 Jul 2010, 7:29 pm

Mudboy wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
Mysty wrote:
It's not different Bibles, just different translations. In my case, the New American Bible, The New Revised Standard Edition, and the Good News Bible.
They are different bibles because they say very different things. That was the entire point. Which 'translation' is right? The one your denomination declares so?
Your bibles are not translations, they are interpretations. You should read the bible directly from Latin. You will get a completely different story than you ever thought was in the bible.


I've always wanted to do that. Alas, I am incapable of learning a second language. I've tried for YEARS. :-(


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Mysty
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08 Jul 2010, 8:19 pm

Mudboy wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
Mysty wrote:
It's not different Bibles, just different translations. In my case, the New American Bible, The New Revised Standard Edition, and the Good News Bible.
They are different bibles because they say very different things. That was the entire point. Which 'translation' is right? The one your denomination declares so?
Your bibles are not translations, they are interpretations. You should read the bible directly from Latin. You will get a completely different story than you ever thought was in the bible.


Latin? Why Latin? Latin is not the original language for any part of the Bible (except perhaps a few names of Romans). What makes it a better translation/intepretation than English language Bibles? (Yes, I'm actually interested in your answer, if you have one.)


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08 Jul 2010, 9:11 pm

Agnostic as to the existence of anything supernatural, *a* creator, more like atheist when it comes to the "omnis" as I find that a logical contradiction with the existence of evil in the world.

~Kate


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08 Jul 2010, 10:01 pm

FOR THE RECORD: There are various TRANSLATIONS of the Bible, and they are for the most part just fine.

In GENERAL (but not always), modern-day Bible translations are taken from ancient manuscripts. Perhaps the most recognized Old Testament source text is the Masoretic manuscript. At times there HAD been some scholarly debate as to its reliability. However, recent discoveries such as the Dead Sea Scrolls (of which included the Hebrew bible) show that the copying accuracy to be somewhere around 95% or better. In fact, the "errors" within the OT have to do with letter substitutions, grammatical errors, and some numerical inconsistencies which are either easily explained and/or irrelevant to the central message of the text. I'm actually reading through the OT and am slowly making my way across Isaiah, so you have to understand that the OT is a HUGE work on its own. Given the size of its body of work and fewer than 5% of the whole work being scribal errors that are barely even worth mentioning, one has no need at all to worry that modern-day translations have a firm foundation on which to base their text.

Most translations were written by theological scholars who devoted their lives to an in-depth study of the original language(s) of the Bible. Something that is notable about translation is that not all words/phrases/figures of speech translate so neatly into other languages, so sometimes a translator is stuck for finding a language equivalent. I'm not convinced that the KJV writers really made the effort or even had the means to understand what was written--I think they wrote the KJV as literally as possible, and given KJV period-English that makes the Bible extremely difficult to understand in a literal sense. I use a Holman study Bible with extensive footnotes, not JUST giving alternate translations, literal meanings, but also explanations in context. Some Bible "critics" like to nitpick the book of Proverbs, for example. Well, the book of Proverbs is a book of wisdom and is full of very broad, general statements. To criticize a proverb is to fail to understand exactly what a proverb IS. Another example of figurative language in the Bible is the colorful sayings of Jesus. Jesus often spoke in exaggerated terms to make a point, and we know that such use of language is not unique to Jesus in the Bible and that such speech was common in Jewish culture throughout their history. In particular, Jesus used whatever was convenient or within view--such as suggesting His followers to command a mountain to throw itself into the ocean. Most likely Jesus was speaking at a place near a tall mountain and could just as easily used another picture had circumstances been different. We often misinterpret that scripture, but the people who were with Jesus would have known EXACTLY what He meant.

By the time of Jesus and the apostles, Greek had become a trade language in the region. What you will find is that when scripture is quoted in the NT, typically in the epistles, the writers quote from the Septuagint (sometimes referred to as the LXX). They did this not because the LXX is preferable to, say, the MT, but because it was written in a language that more people could understand. Modern-day translators probably use the MT the most but WILL fall back on the LXX if something in the MT seems unclear.

I'm not as familiar with NT sources, but my understanding is that the source languages are Greek and Aramaic (and some Hebrew) as they were the predominant languages of the region at the time. The NT manuscripts show near 100% accuracy. The also represent the shortest amount of time passing from the events they record to the actual writing. That means the authors did not waste very much time getting those events on paper or allow themselves much time at all to forget about what had happened. In modern times, when this happens, it means that the recorded events most likely actually happened!

So if the source texts of the Bible are reliable and free from any significant errors, and if a Biblical scholar is knowledgeable of the languages of the Bible, and if a Bible translation is taken from one of these manuscripts, then there is no need at all to worry whether your Bible translation is the right one or not. I like to read the HSCB, but the NIV and the ASV are known to be perfectly acceptable translations along with the good, old-fashioned King Jimmy if you are so inclined. The ONLY translation that I'm aware of that seems a little iffy is the New World translation, which appears to me to be crafted to favor a particular religious agenda, denies the deity of Christ, and has been disputed as to the reputation and qualifications of its translators. Another Bible "translation" (I use that word loosely here) that is popular with younger people, especially teenagers, is The Message. The purpose of this Bible is more of a devotional reading, but a lot of young people misunderstand this and take it to be a "legit" Bible, which it is NOT. It's not a BAD text, I'm just saying one should recognize it for what it is and not assume it to be the very words that Jesus spoke.

Sorry for going on and on, but misunderstanding of the Bible happen to be a pet peeve of mine. ;) If you need help with something, feel free to ask any time!



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08 Jul 2010, 10:04 pm

Weird seeing NT used here at WP for something other than "neurotypical". :D


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08 Jul 2010, 10:22 pm

Mysty wrote:
Weird seeing NT used here at WP for something other than "neurotypical". :D


LOL


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08 Jul 2010, 10:40 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
Mysty wrote:
Weird seeing NT used here at WP for something other than "neurotypical". :D


LOL


LOL

OK... But I'm wordy enough without resorting to spelling it out all the time. Should I edit my post? ;)

"Our reading today will come from the NT account of John the Baptist. Actually, John the Baptist might very well have been an Aspie..."

Hey, it's true--he wasn't all that concerned with personal hygiene or grooming, only ate locusts and wild honey, and had a fierce obsession with getting people wet and Messianic prophecy. :D



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08 Jul 2010, 11:04 pm

Meow101 wrote:
Agnostic as to the existence of anything supernatural, *a* creator, more like atheist when it comes to the "omnis" as I find that a logical contradiction with the existence of evil in the world.

~Kate




This is essentially my own position in terms of religion/spirituality. The "omni" qualities of god proposed by the Judeo-Christian faiths are a serious logical contradiction IMO.

I can't even debate with Judeo-Christians anymore, i've tried countless times in the past and it's just an exercise in utter futility.

I have yet to hear one rationalization for the existence of a god with all these "omni" qualities which makes the least bit of sense to me.



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08 Jul 2010, 11:12 pm

AngelRho wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
Mysty wrote:
Weird seeing NT used here at WP for something other than "neurotypical". :D


LOL


LOL

OK... But I'm wordy enough without resorting to spelling it out all the time. Should I edit my post? ;)

"Our reading today will come from the NT account of John the Baptist. Actually, John the Baptist might very well have been an Aspie..."

Hey, it's true--he wasn't all that concerned with personal hygiene or grooming, only ate locusts and wild honey, and had a fierce obsession with getting people wet and Messianic prophecy. :D


No need to edit. lol


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