Social Skills Training for Adults

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draelynn
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24 Apr 2011, 8:41 pm

Louise18 wrote:

Actually, Kfisherx is in a position to change (or at least influence) that culture, if she wants.

Have you actually read this entire post? She shares her disclosure and company's reaction and immediate actions to make accomodation. It seems like they came to her defense before she even entertained the idea. It's undoubtedly rare and a model for other companies to follow but I'm not holding my breath. She is also within an industry with a, supposedly, higher population of AS professionals than most others. Their tolerance just makes good business sense.

Perhaps a thorough read of her thread first would be a good place to start. She started this thread to share her journey, not make a political statement. This is her perspective and her opinion. She never characterized it as anything but. If you are going to take her to task for what she has to say, perhaps you should read all of her opinions first before making assumptions.

Louise18
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24 Apr 2011, 8:43 pm

wavefreak58 wrote:

Louise18 wrote:

No, I know that it is because of the social crap. But it isn't because the social crap gets anything done (product to sell made, system to produce product at a cheaper price created, new product idea generated) it's because it allows the company to make money out of the fact that people make irrational decisions. They buy from there store with the salesperson that makes them feel better rather than the cheaper product that does the same thing, or the higher quality product available for the same price. They give the contract to a mate instead of the person who is capable of making the best bid. They don't open up the opportunity to cut a deal to everyone available to do it, instead cutting the deal over dinner with someone they know. If people didn't operate in this defective way, capitalism would function better, more and better quality products would be produced, and we'd live in a fairer society. That's what pisses me off about it.

Yeah? So what? I eat cherries because I don't like grapes.

Basically, you don't like the way the world works. You think you know a better way? Then build a company that uses that way. But you have to COMPETE with all the other companies. That's the rub. You can complain all you want about NT irrationality, but unless you go out and do something to prove your way is better then you come across as a whiner. And if you say you can't because the NT world is stacked against you, you again sound like a whiner. That's the point of competition.- to separate the winners from the whiners. Humans compete with each other. They always have, like it or not. Compete or die. Or in a more civilized culture, compete and be successful or take you place among the masses.

People aren't everything the world has to offer, you know. And neither is their recognition, or shiny objects, something that you necessarily have to compete for. There are plenty of people with real achievements like Hemingway, Turner etc etc. The corporate world and other people sucking your cock in your life time is not really a contribution to the world.

wavefreak58
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24 Apr 2011, 8:52 pm

Louise18 wrote:

And now you are applying a personal value judgment. What makes your values any better than anyone else's? This is the real problem, here. This thread is about kfisherx and a program she is going through to help her understand social communication, not about personal values and corporate cock sucking. Injecting your own spin on how the world should be is just a rant.

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Louise18
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24 Apr 2011, 9:16 pm

wavefreak58 wrote:

Louise18 wrote:

As I said, kfisherx IS in a position to influence corporate culture, in an environment where the outcome could be really great-she is working in a high-tech organisation that comes up with great new products that improve efficiency etc. So changing the culture in the direction of less of this BS could mean 1)that people who have a lot to offer intel but can't do social stuff get a better chance and 2) make the corporate world a bit less bull-shitty. So suggesting that she take that approach rather than necessarily taking a social approach just because that's how NTs work does make sense.

wavefreak58
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24 Apr 2011, 9:28 pm

Louise18 wrote:

wavefreak58 wrote:

Louise18 wrote:

You assume too much. Are you sure she ISN'T doing what she can to influence perceptions of autism or are you just projecting your own ideas on to a situation without knowing the facts?

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kfisherx
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24 Apr 2011, 10:41 pm

Louise18 wrote:

...As I said, kfisherx IS in a position to influence corporate culture, in an environment where the outcome could be really great-she is working in a high-tech organisation that comes up with great new products that improve efficiency etc. So changing the culture in the direction of less of this BS could mean 1)that people who have a lot to offer intel but can't do social stuff get a better chance and 2) make the corporate world a bit less bull-shitty. So suggesting that she take that approach rather than necessarily taking a social approach just because that's how NTs work does make sense.

Seriously, are you reading ANYTHING that I am writing about my company or how many ways I AM influencing??! ! Did you see the post that stated how my team is changing to accomodate me or how about where I implemented corporate Best Known Method on hiring andretaining an employee with Aspergers? Did you read why I started social training in the first place and how my review feedback was removed without my saying anything once I was Dx'd?

Louise18 wrote:

....If this kind of childish crap is beneficial to corporate functioning, then there is a problem with corporate functioning. If this helps people function as a team, there really is a problem with people.

Yeah so that sort of "small talk" doesn't happen in my group and rarely in the industry from my 20 plus years experience. Different type of people than what is experienced in other industries from my experience.

Your posts proves that you have ZERO understanding of my industry or how accepting it is of Aspies and Aspie/types so please stop with the soap box and your personal agenda based on your experience in an entirely different field/country and position just agree to disagree. Go start you own thread somewhere about how to run a better business without socializing. Honestly, I am not interested in your opinions on that topic as they simply do not pertain in the least to this situation. Or at least have the decency to read the things I am posting before you go off in this thread...

Last edited by kfisherx on 24 Apr 2011, 11:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Louise18
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24 Apr 2011, 11:05 pm

If you read my earlier posts, you would know that I was responding to a particular thing, not suggesting that she isn't trying to make intel more "autism friendly" in other ways that aren't currently under discussion.

I think at this point we should agree to disagree. I don't think your responses to what I have said have furthered the discussion at all, at least half of your comments come from you reading stuff into my posts that was never there in the first place. I'm not willing to respond to you anymore on this thread, for that reason.

This post was at wavefreak.

kfisherx
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24 Apr 2011, 11:08 pm

draelynn wrote:

...I too have just started Celexa - I've been on it before and I am not a fan of it. I am only two days in and the disorientation can be overwhelming to the point where my vision blurs and I can't drive. My brain begins feeling like it is fighting back - it's really the only explanation that describes it accurately. And I've been thru the same exact effect with each SSRI I've taken. I have little choice in the matter - this is the only antidepressant I can afford that doesn't give me extreme reactions. If I had the prescription coverage to make a choice, I would have taken Cymbalta - as it handles depression and fibromyalgia pain. As an SSNRI, it hasn't given me ANY of the side effects or 'zombification' that SSRI's can. On the up side, the zombie effects of Celexa do tend to calm down once you acclimate to it. For me, it can take up to two weeks. So, hang in there. Those of us with these uncommon reactions usually will know within the first week if it's going to work or not.

BUT... but... NO WAY! It is impossible for anyone to feel the effects so early.

Thanks for sharing your experience. It seems a good number of us tend to feel affects of medicine differently than is normally documented. The Zombie effects sounds a lot like my "zoning" effect. It really is like smoking pot sort of spacing. I am actually already over it by backing down for awhile. I will go back up to 1/2 to see if I can handle that better this upcoming week as I was told that I would acclimate to it.

draelynn wrote:

...When I saw your therapist call them 'social lies', I felt vindicated. Maybe he was just using that wording to placate. I'd assume many Aspies see this 'social nicety' as lying. I just got into it with my own therapist although she was politely offended that I'd call it lying. And it comes so easily for him, I'm sure. In fact, it is 'normal' despite a cultural abhorrance of the word and outrage at having found out that someone has lied to you. When people asked me questions, I just answered with the truth. I'd try to frame it in the least offensive way possible but even that isn't good enough. On one job, I had resorted to asking the women if they wanted the truth or if they wanted me tell them what they wanted to hear. Oddly enough - women vocally opted for the latter and had their ego fed EVEN THOUGH THEY KNEW IT WAS A FALSEHOOD. Still don't get it. Not sure I ever will. I think I would have the strong urge to ask your therapist where the hidden camera was... if it was some sort of punk'd thing.

He is very funny with his "social lies" thing. I keep saying, "No way!" and things like that and he just nods and tells me that it is how it works and laughs at my faces and disbelief...

draelynn wrote:

...But, I do agree - the small talk, as time wasteful as it seems on the surface, does serve a greater overall purpose. I managed upwards of thirty five people in my last position. A little bit of thoughtfully applied small talk does invoke greater productivity in the long run. Making that connection does build a cohesive team that helps one another and more freely shares ideas instead of a bunch of hard working strangers prone to keep to themselves.

I think anyone who has any experience with actually managing people or succesfully working in teams will understand this is how things work.

Last edited by kfisherx on 24 Apr 2011, 11:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Louise18
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24 Apr 2011, 11:26 pm

There is a difference between understanding how something works, and believing that that's how it should work.

kfisherx
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24 Apr 2011, 11:29 pm

Louise18 wrote:

There is a difference between understanding how something works, and believing that that's how it should work.

You have to understand deeply how something works before you can have a valid opinion on how to change that something.

It is the very "essence" of this training for me.

Last edited by kfisherx on 24 Apr 2011, 11:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Verdandi
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24 Apr 2011, 11:37 pm

Just to add my own experiences, the last time I took an SSRI (Celexa, I believe) for anxiety, and I experienced effects fairly quickly beyond just the side effects. Unfortunately, the side effects made it pretty intolerable, and my dose was too high.

I actually liked the dreams I had while taking it, too.

kfisherx
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24 Apr 2011, 11:43 pm

Verdandi wrote:

Nope. Can't be. It flies in the face of "general scientific consensious" LOL! Thanks for sharing your experience too actually. I think that many times the "bad" of these drugs come from taking too high a dose. Especially with Autistic people. I read this one guy was taking twice the effective dose (or 40mg) and had all these bad sides he was complaining about. Makes you go... "hmmmmmmm....."

Apple_in_my_Eye
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25 Apr 2011, 1:02 am

Yeah, with psychotropics it does seem that YMMV a lot. I remember a guy with bipolar disorder saying that taking Paxil felt just like taking cocaine to him. And, when starting SSRI's I get side-effects that people usually get when withdrawing from them. And amphetamine puts me to sleep. So, oddball reactions definitely happen sometimes.

People's brain's just seem to vary a lot that way (and not too surprisingly in a population with weird neurology).

Verdandi
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25 Apr 2011, 1:51 am

kfisherx wrote:

Verdandi wrote:

Yeah, I agree on the high doses. When I watched Temple Grandin's TED talk where she discussed lower SSRI doses for autistic people it was like a light bulb went off for me, given my two experiences (Paxil and I think Celexa).

nemorosa
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25 Apr 2011, 3:28 am

kfisherx wrote:

Verdandi wrote:

I quote from the article you are so fond of:

"We must also remember that the side-effects of medication can often be felt straight away long before the benefits really kick in, and this will always affect people's experiences in the initial stages of treatment."

You do a search on google "how long does it take for ssris to take effect" and look at the results. Now why would they all say the same thing? Makes you go "hmmmm" doesn't it.

FYI I started on 10mg and moved up to 20mg.

You really are so charming for someone who is doing "social skills" training. You have a giggle at peoples misfortunes and to top it off you are just "playing with them". Pure class.

And BTW, you still haven't pointed out the straw-man arguments.

One last thing: I find your "general scientific consensious" pretty funny to read.

kfisherx
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25 Apr 2011, 9:15 am

Apple_in_my_Eye wrote:

YMMV??? Does not understand?

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