The Neanderthal theory, your thoughts?

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That picture of the Neanderthal child from RDOS' website looks very different from this wax depiction of a Neanderthal man.



In comparison, this looks more close to a modern caucasion child. That's the problem I have with this theory. It seems to be eurocentrically biased. Who knows if the Neaderthals had blond hair, blue eyes and white skin. This theory just assumes it out of bias. The wax figure looks more asian to me.

Europe was the primary homeland of Neanderthals. Hence, They were generally fairly far north, and they lived their for a long time, so most likely they had adapted skin pigmentation to fit. That is, pale skin in their northern ranges, and more olive skin towards their southern ranges like Palestine. Since the extreme paleness of Europeans is characteristic of the fact that they have inhabited such northern extents for a longer time than other northern populations, there is every reason to suppose that Neanderthals who lived in Europe would have been every bit as white as Europeans from similar areas.

It is actually known that Neanderthals had at least red hair. Genes have been recovered which would have coded for red hair much like moderns. There is no evidence as far as I know for any other kind of hair.

In Hss blue eyes did not appear until 6-10000 years ago. Hard to say with neanderthal though.

Regardless, it is based on the skull from the Gibraltar II Neanderthal.



Of course, the main range of Neanderthals where Europe, even if they probably inhabitated every suitable (colder) zone possible. For instance, they are also in Central Asia, and possibly even in NE Asia. During colder periods they are in Near East and even N Africa while during warmer they were in Scandinavia (Finland).

Do you know which tool kit modern humans used up until Cro Magnon? Yes, that is right, an even more primitive one

Besides, the tool kit should not be evaluated on a scale of primitiveness, but in relation to what they did and how their culture worked. It is also indisputable that Neanderthal had lots of other things that simply do not show up in escavations. Their main use of some tools was to work on wood, this have been shown by analysing micro-patterns.

Neanderthals and Sapiens coexisted Europe for 15.000 years. Neanderthal genome is incomplete, so far is it a close match, there's no noticeable difference. Neanderthals and sapiens were the same specie. They had interbreed capability.

AND WE ARE DISCUSSING IF SAPIENS SAPIENS SUBESPECIE COULD HAVE NEANDERTHAL'S GENES?

HILLARIOUS


LEAVE YOUR GOLDEN RETRIEVER ALONE WITH THE NEIGHBOUR'S POINTER FOR ONE AFTERNOON AND CALL ME IN 3 MONTHS.

Its not that simple _BRI_

Lions and Tigers may cross breed and they are more distantly related than horses and donkeys. The horse and donkey combination, called a mule, is unable to have offspring of its own.

A Liger(a cross between a lion and tiger) may have children, either by mating with a Lion, a Tiger, or another Liger, or even a Tigon(which is a cross between a male tiger and a female lion).

In fact, most hybrids in nature are sterile and unable to reproduce. The above mentioned lion-tiger mixes are an unusual example of animals that break that general rule.

In nature mating rituals are as important as genetics in determining who will cross breed. Using birds for an example, it is important that they have the proper colored feathers and that they pose and make the correct motions and sounds to attract a mate.

Size is even more important. For example, a male Chihuahua cannot impregnate a female great dane, even though dogs are all the same species(Canis Familiaris), but a Husky(Canis Familiaris) could impregnate a wolf(Canis Lupus).

There is more to the equation than genetic similarity, and nobody can really know if homo sapien and neanderthal could cross breed.

Finally. I am taking away your caps lock key. Its considered rude to type in all caps like that.

I can has citation plz?

I'm out of the loop for quite some time now. If you have anything that would back this up, kindly present it.

Exactly. That's a strong indication that Aspies are another species, because it is common that Aspies do not understand the NT mating ritual and has preferences of their own that NTs find weird or disgusting.

All this talk about Neanderthals and Home Sapiens existing together and AS has made me think of the Star Trek: Enterprise episode "Dear Doctor." In this episode, the Enterprise finds a ship drifting in space and they bring the crew members aboard and save their lives. They then say their race is dying off from a disease they can't cure and they're out in space looking for help, even though they can't get to another star system because they haven't developed warp drive yet. The Enterprise takes them back to their home planet and discovers two humanoid species living there, the technologically advanced Valakians and the primative Menk. The Menk are supposedly less intelligent than the Valakians but they are good workers, so they do all the menial jobs and the Valakians provide them with everything they need.

Dr. Phlox finds it fascinating there are 2 sentient species on the planet living together peacefully. Even though some think the Menk aren't much more than slaves or pets, Dr. Phlox finds it interesting because on other planets where there have been 2 sentient species, one usually ends up anihilating the other. He doesn't judge the relationship between the 2 species, in which one does all the menial work and the other provides for all of their needs by human standards.

The Menk seem to be immune from the disease the Valakians are dying from, so Dr. Phlox decides to study them and find out why. He goes to a Menk village and finds that they are an agrarian culture, but since the Valakians can farm more efficiently with technology, the Menk are only allowed to live in areas where the land isn't very arable. A Menk hospital orderly helps him with his work and strangely enough, starts speaking and understanding some English. In addition, a Menk puts tissue samples in the same order he would have which tells him the Menk are more intelligent than previously believed.

His studies of the Menk and the Valakians determine that the problem isn't a disease, it's a genetic defect that exists in their DNA, that they are at an evolutionary "dead end," and their race will most likely be gone in 2 centuries. However, Dr. Phlox has the technology to cure them but wonders if he should. He thinks this "dead end" was the natural progression of the Valakians and that the Menk are on the verge of an evolutionary awakening, but as long as the Valakians are around, the Menk will be kept down and won't have the opportunity to make this breakthrough and make it to their true potential.

At first, Captain Archer tells Dr. Phlox to give them the cure, but he thinks it would be wrong interfere in the natural progression of their race, but then Archer changes his mind realizing the Enterprise isn't out in space to "Play God," and comes to a compromise. Dr. Phlox gives the Valakians a treatment for the disease. Although it won't cure it, it will perhaps buy their species another 50 years or so in which either they might find the cure, or develop warp drive so they can go into the galaxy and find a cure.

Makes me wonder if perhaps this can be compared to the Sapien/Neanderthal thread.

Just a random thought.

The problem, as I see it, is with the claim that aspies are largely a subspecies of Caucasoids. No matter whether the intellectual variance in the races is principally attributed to aspies, a case is still being made for Caucasoids having a higher culturally-neutral average IQ score.

Not only Caucasians, but also NE Asians and Amerindians. This is because how the interbreeding happened. It started in Central Asia, after which proto-Caucasians went West and continued to interbreed in Europe and proto-Mongoloids went east and eventually to the Americas. Then we also have the movements out of Europe and into Near East and North Africa (and back again). Basically the only population that remains largely unaffected are black Africans. If it didn't happen this way, it would be impossible to match it with the IQ distribution of the world.

Again, I think you are reifying the construct of IQ. Intelligence and aptitude tests - whether Stanford-Binet, SAT, ACT, or others - are nothing more than operational definitions of intelligence. In other words, intelligence is not a thing. It is a presumed set of abilities which are measured by various indicants (scales and indices).

The overriding problem, which is now almost universally acknowledged by social scientists, is that operationalizations of intelligence cannot be separated from culture. In other words, no matter how one writes the questions, it is impossible to test completely for intelligence while controlling on socialization. They are part and parcel of one another.

Why don't we collect funds to check our genes?

I know and you are absolutely correct. We just witnessed the IQ testing of our daughter (WISC), and there is no doubt that culture & socialization is a big part of the results. Another big part is the lack of typical NT-adaptations. I can tell this because many questions were related to what our daughter had missed in school because she has been in special education and has not yet learned these things. There is no such thing as a culturally independent IQ-test. An even bigger problem when doing these things on children is that they are normed to "typical development". Children that don't develop according to the typical norm will get useless results.

Too early. We need an almost complete Hn genome first. Because of the method used, we need most of the genome before genes can be assembled. And, besides, we allready have AGRE as an excellent source.