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Kids on the spectrum don't belong in mainstream school

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LifUlfur
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01 Mar 2014, 3:35 pm

beneficii wrote:
pinkgurl87 wrote:
I was in regular school, but I was teased like crazy because I was different, but the thing is I wouldn't have wanted to be in a special class, in grade 3 I was in the special reading group for the lowest level of reading and I hated it because I felt I was different, I actually worked really hard and basically self taught a lot of reading skills that by grade 7 I was at the top of my class in reading skills. As much as I was teased I think I would feel worse about myself if in a special class because I would know I was different. I think people with high functioning autism should be in the mainstream schools but have extra support or ability to work ahead of other kids, aka I was doing math above my level in elementary school. In the real world people with Autism will have to interact with NTs who will probably judge them it doesn't just happen in childhood. Plus people with Autism are not the only ones that get teased anyone who is different gets teased. Kids are mean in general but I think they would be even meanier if someone was in a special class, because they are set apart from others.


I see some truth to this. When I was in special ed, it seemed a lot of the kids were there for things like intellectual disability or primarily behavioral problems (who otherwise seemed able to socialized well). I didn't see very many kids (though I did see some) that I could identify in retrospect as having been on the autism spectrum, and heck even my ADHD seemed to make me stand out, as I didn't know very many other kids with that either. Even in special ed, I felt lonely and different (as I also did in my mainstreaming attempts). LOL.

I remember in 4th grade one boy who was very clearly autistic in retrospect. He was highly intelligent and able to hum music with perfect pitch and kick butt at video games, while unlike me his behavior didn't really come across as anxious, confused, or disruptive. He had this one repetitive behavior, though, that I would never forget: He would take his hand and would angle his index finger and thumb down in a way designed to pinch; he would then bring that hand up to your forehead and squeeze in order to produce wrinkles; while doing this, he would say repeatedly, "Mmm, wrinkles. Mmm, Richard." (I do not know where he got the name Richard from as that was not his name, nor did it seem to be the name of anyone significant in his life.) We were close friends and I enjoyed his company, but one day he stopped coming to school and when we tried going by his house, his family had disappeared.

My mum actually talked to me about him then, describing him as autistic. This was actually the first time I had ever heard of the word autism/autistic. What's funny in retrospect, is that I was at the time already diagnosed with an ASD (PDD-NOS) and at the end of the previous school year had been found eligible to receive autism resource services from the school, yet no one ever told me I was autistic until I was diagnosed with Asperger syndrome at age 13 (in 8th grade). My mum had given the impression that it was just something my best friend had.


That was an awesome story. Thank you for sharing it.

I particularly like his special type of stimming. :D



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01 Mar 2014, 3:59 pm

pinkgurl87 wrote:
I think people with high functioning autism should be in the mainstream schools but have extra support or ability to work ahead of other kids, aka I was doing math above my level in elementary school. In the real world people with Autism will have to interact with NTs who will probably judge them it doesn't just happen in childhood. Plus people with Autism are not the only ones that get teased anyone who is different gets teased. Kids are mean in general but I think they would be even meanier if someone was in a special class, because they are set apart from others.


I was above my class level of reading, but never did well in math....Also though I think its an issue that kids feel the need to be mean to someone if they're in special classes they should be taught to have some respect for people, even people who need extra help. I feel like schools dismiss far too much negative behavior as 'well that's just normal' perhaps if it wasn't 'normal' to be mean to someone because of their differences....kids wouldn't do it so much but they learn at a young age that it is 'normal' so they don't see what is wrong with joining in on making fun of someone who's different.

Of course people with autism aren't the only ones who get picked on....however I think a large majority do. Also though as far as I know most people aren't chronically picked on and bullied throughout their time in school so the degree to which it happens can vary to. But yeah I didn't know I had any kind of autism growing up and neither did anyone else...so I wasn't picked on for 'having autism' but for being different from them due to it.


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01 Mar 2014, 4:14 pm

One size fits all solutions suck. If you're saying that all people described as "HFA" should be in special education or should be in mainstream schools your argument is automatically wrong. There's a reason IEPs (Individualized Education Plans) exist, and it's not so every single person with the same diagnosis can be given exactly the same treatment and resources and be expected to turn out exactly the same way.

Also, this notion that being in special education or other alternative classroom environments means never having to interact with NTs or be judged negatively is naive and wrong.



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01 Mar 2014, 5:51 pm

Verdandi wrote:
Also, this notion that being in special education or other alternative classroom environments means never having to interact with NTs or be judged negatively is naive and wrong.


Special schools means exposure to NT adults who are trained to be PC, Not to NT peers.



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01 Mar 2014, 5:55 pm

androbot2084 wrote:
The neurotypical solution to bullying is to put all autistics into ret*d schools.

I don't see quotations around the r-word so you must be comfortable with this word? I was in the park the other day and overheard two boys who jokingly described something called the "ret*d scale". It was actually applied to NTs in their class who exhibited what sounded like social awkwardness. I'm guessing that Aspies like you and me fall fairly comfortably into their stupid scale.



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01 Mar 2014, 6:42 pm

Fall fairly comfortably, or fly to the top?



LifUlfur
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01 Mar 2014, 6:42 pm

Fall fairly comfortably, or fly to the top?



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01 Mar 2014, 8:34 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
Also, this notion that being in special education or other alternative classroom environments means never having to interact with NTs or be judged negatively is naive and wrong.


Special schools means exposure to NT adults who are trained to be PC, Not to NT peers.


Well, 1) You're not only exposed to those NT adults because presumably there is more to life than school, and 2) The entire notion that "PC" is a thing is utter BS. "Political correctness" is often a label people use when they want a euphemism for "People get mad at me for being a bigoted ass" while trying to portray themselves as the victim.

The idea that it is necessary to put children into a hostile environment for them to learn how to cope in the so-called "real world" is also BS. You want people to turn out functional, not traumatized.

LifUlfur wrote:
Fall fairly comfortably, or fly to the top?


This is a false dichotomy. Mainstreaming doesn't mean you're going to "fly to the top" and special education doesn't mean you're going to "fall fairly comfortably."



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01 Mar 2014, 9:30 pm

Verdandi wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
Also, this notion that being in special education or other alternative classroom environments means never having to interact with NTs or be judged negatively is naive and wrong.


Special schools means exposure to NT adults who are trained to be PC, Not to NT peers.


Well, 1) You're not only exposed to those NT adults because presumably there is more to life than school, and 2) The entire notion that "PC" is a thing is utter BS. "Political correctness" is often a label people use when they want a euphemism for "People get mad at me for being a bigoted ass" while trying to portray themselves as the victim.

The idea that it is necessary to put children into a hostile environment for them to learn how to cope in the so-called "real world" is also BS. You want people to turn out functional, not traumatized.

LifUlfur wrote:
Fall fairly comfortably, or fly to the top?


This is a false dichotomy. Mainstreaming doesn't mean you're going to "fly to the top" and special education doesn't mean you're going to "fall fairly comfortably."


In my case in special classes and schools there were nts. People were in those classes for a variety of reasons.

For me I think I got a crummier education in the special classes as I don't think we were being taught quite the same things as in normal schools but in regular school I was too bullied and had to many problems to learn anything anyways. It was more like fall comfortably (special ed) or get smacked down (regular school). It wasn't fair for me or the other kids to leave me in regular school. I was too disruptive and could do better with smaller class sizes. It also didn't matter much what kind of education I got since I was pretty much counting down the days until I was 16 and could quit since early grade school.

There is no one size fits all for school. Some kids might do better mainstreamed, some might do better in a special class or school, and some might be better off being home schooled.

I heard the line from relatives about school being important to learn to get along with other people but it never taught me that. All it taught me was that people are mean and hate me and to avoid them as much as possible. In normal school I only had 1 friend who was also bullied and only got that one because the teacher set us up in first grade since neither of us had friends. She ditched me in sixth grade to get other friends.



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01 Mar 2014, 9:47 pm

Verdandi wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
Also, this notion that being in special education or other alternative classroom environments means never having to interact with NTs or be judged negatively is naive and wrong.


Special schools means exposure to NT adults who are trained to be PC, Not to NT peers.


Well, 1) You're not only exposed to those NT adults because presumably there is more to life than school, and 2) The entire notion that "PC" is a thing is utter BS. "Political correctness" is often a label people use when they want a euphemism for "People get mad at me for being a bigoted ass" while trying to portray themselves as the victim.

The idea that it is necessary to put children into a hostile environment for them to learn how to cope in the so-called "real world" is also BS. You want people to turn out functional, not traumatized.


i) school takes up a predominant period of my daughter's life ii) outside of schooltime she has no friends iii) PC training in this context is special needs teachers trained to deal with special needs kids in a appropriate way. They are primarily spending time modifying children's behavior and where time permits educating. I'd prefer the reverse...

I take your point re: hostile environment, it's a bridge my daughter will cross very very soon... :(



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02 Mar 2014, 4:17 am

Verdandi wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
Also, this notion that being in special education or other alternative classroom environments means never having to interact with NTs or be judged negatively is naive and wrong.


Special schools means exposure to NT adults who are trained to be PC, Not to NT peers.


Well, 1) You're not only exposed to those NT adults because presumably there is more to life than school, and 2) The entire notion that "PC" is a thing is utter BS. "Political correctness" is often a label people use when they want a euphemism for "People get mad at me for being a bigoted ass" while trying to portray themselves as the victim.

The idea that it is necessary to put children into a hostile environment for them to learn how to cope in the so-called "real world" is also BS. You want people to turn out functional, not traumatized.

LifUlfur wrote:
Fall fairly comfortably, or fly to the top?


This is a false dichotomy. Mainstreaming doesn't mean you're going to "fly to the top" and special education doesn't mean you're going to "fall fairly comfortably."


This not what I meant. I was posting in reply to the person above me who said: "I'm guessing that Aspies like you and me fall fairly comfortably into their stupid scale." Not about school, just the scale.
He meant that we would obviously be on the scale but I thought we would be at the very top of it, the most hated in their eyes.
Did you misunderstand this?



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02 Mar 2014, 6:06 am

I think it should depend on what the child wants. The only issue with that is that some of us are nonverbal and it might be difficult for parents to know for sure.



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02 Mar 2014, 7:20 am

cyberdad wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
Also, this notion that being in special education or other alternative classroom environments means never having to interact with NTs or be judged negatively is naive and wrong.


Special schools means exposure to NT adults who are trained to be PC, Not to NT peers.


Well, 1) You're not only exposed to those NT adults because presumably there is more to life than school, and 2) The entire notion that "PC" is a thing is utter BS. "Political correctness" is often a label people use when they want a euphemism for "People get mad at me for being a bigoted ass" while trying to portray themselves as the victim.

The idea that it is necessary to put children into a hostile environment for them to learn how to cope in the so-called "real world" is also BS. You want people to turn out functional, not traumatized.


i) school takes up a predominant period of my daughter's life ii) outside of schooltime she has no friends iii) PC training in this context is special needs teachers trained to deal with special needs kids in a appropriate way. They are primarily spending time modifying children's behavior and where time permits educating. I'd prefer the reverse...

I take your point re: hostile environment, it's a bridge my daughter will cross very very soon... :(


I should have been clear that I knew you didn't mean it that way. I just have been a bit irritated about repeated usage elsewhere.

Anyway, I didn't mean friends. I was frequently harassed outside of school, and many of those involved were people I didn't know from school. This happened more when I was a teenager than before, though.



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02 Mar 2014, 7:20 am

LifUlfur wrote:
This not what I meant. I was posting in reply to the person above me who said: "I'm guessing that Aspies like you and me fall fairly comfortably into their stupid scale." Not about school, just the scale.
He meant that we would obviously be on the scale but I thought we would be at the very top of it, the most hated in their eyes.
Did you misunderstand this?


Yes, I did. Thank you for patience and clarification.



LifUlfur
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02 Mar 2014, 11:36 am

You're welcome :D



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02 Mar 2014, 11:56 am

In elementary school and 6th grade they tried to put me with other "special needs" kids because of not doing my homework, ODD and socializing but then they always put me back into regular classes because for what concerns the behaviour I did worse than how I did in regular classes.
Kids weren't much controlled in special classes and because of this I acted even more disruptively. I was one of the highest-functioning there (the other kids mostly had Down's syndrome, were mentally challenged or were severely autistic) along with two dyslexic kids and maybe other higher-functioning kids and I remember being quite a "guide" to other kids who were lower-functioning, they used to gather around me/follow me.
I was even more disruptive in special classes and I used to do things like just stand up in the middle of the lesson and walk out the door.
When the teachers noticed that I got worse in those classes they immediately put me back into regular classes. I was disruptive and oppositional but at least I wasn't as bad as I was in special classes. I don't remember lasting in a special class for more than two days. I remember that the two dyslexic kids were put back into regular class with me.
In elementary school my biggest problem were the teachers and in middle school the teachers and the classmates. I got bullied a lot in 6th, 7th and 8th grade, mostly by girls but thankfully I was never physically bullied but it was teasing and taking my stuff without permission, that used to upset me but I think that physical bullying is way worse. I passed the whole 7th and 8th grade without a friend but it really didn't matter. I prefered to be alone than to be friend with those idiots. Ever since I started high school I was never bullied again, in any way. My current classmates are pretty nice to me actually.
My father was in special classes most of hos school life and he hated it. He says he didn't learn anything useful in special classes and that he didn't make any friends there.
Just like someone said, it depends on the kids. Personally, I used to do terrible in both once. Same goes with my father.