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btbnnyr
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12 Jun 2015, 8:39 pm

Adult diagnosis of autism doesn't come with drugs, unless the drugs are needed to manage disorders that are not autism, e.g. depression, anxiety, bipolar, schizophrenia, ADHD. In rare cases, an adult may be prescribed risperdal to target specific problems rooted in autism, e.g. severe and frequent meltdowns, self-harm, harmful repetitive behaviors.


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tall-p
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12 Jun 2015, 8:39 pm

jimmyboy76453 wrote:
My psychologist, who diagnosed me, didn't suggest medication or offer me any (nor did I want any). My medical doctor, on the other hand, was quick to push antidepressants on me.

Psychologists can't prescribe meds... at least not here in the US. Doctors do though.


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12 Jun 2015, 8:46 pm

I used to be self-diagnosed. As of last November I am professionally diagnosed. The only difference is that I now have a 15-page report stating I have ASD, and I am $1,500 or so poorer.



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12 Jun 2015, 8:48 pm

I've read through every page, every single post, it was like watching children arguing over whose the 'pooh pooh face'. With a select few being somewhat tolerant. (You can decide for yourself whose who, better yet just assume I think it was all childish then you won't argue with anyone who is willing to argue back.)

Both sides with extremely staunch views. [B&W thinking]

Both sides thinking they know best. [Arrogance]

Both sides being oblivious to the others social-emotional needs. [Social-emotional reciprocity deficits anyone]

Both sides demonstrating a lack of emotional control. [whether admittedly or not]

Both sides showing perseverance. [what page are we on again?]

The list goes on....

The funny (as in ironically asinine) part is, both sides kept spewing the same refrain over and over again hoping the next iteration would somehow get the point across. [welcome to the department of redundancy department :D ]




(Side note: I really don't care what anyone is, if your behavior towards me and others is that of an ass frequently (everyone has bad days not so much bad weeks/months/years) you can be the queen mother superior diagnosed by Freud himself or self proclaimed supreme commander of the imperial army and you'd still be an ass and only an ass in my opinion.)



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12 Jun 2015, 9:11 pm

Doom1991 wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Doom1991 wrote:
I believe its because of the rule that psychologists go by "You cannot diagnose yourself nor can you diagnose your family". As people we either think too highly of ourselves or we think too lowly. It would be like someone who said "I feel pains in my chest so that means I have heart problems" when really if they were properly diagnosed they would find out they really had heartburn problems which isn't related to the heart at all. Same concept with someone self-diagnosing with Autism or any other disorder. Im someone who was diagnosed with Autism in middle school, has done many research papers on the subject, and has a mother who is a psychologist that shares information with me on it and yet I couldn't diagnose someone nor myself with Autism. So how could someone else diagnose themselves with it? If you go online and look up a disorders symptoms or even an illness, you will say "Hey that sounds alot like me and what I have". We all do it as its human nature which is why we go and see doctors and psychologists before taking heavy meds or go down a path of bettering ourselves.



That is why it is called a 'self diagnoses' because you're right you cannot officially diagnoses yourself or a family member with a disorder....that is why the self is in there it implies 'non-official' not legally valid, like you're not going to have access to services/help for that condition because of your self diagnoses. That is the whole point only a mental health professional trained in diagnosing autism can officially diagnose self diagnoses directly implies its not official. I mean I could see if people with self diagnoses claimed to have official diagnoses, that pissing people off...but claiming a self diagnoses is not the same thing as saying you have an official diagnoses.

Yeah but the one thing about self-diagnosers is that there are some (I dont know the numbers on how many) that either fake it for attention or say it to make themselves feel special. Its pretty much frowned upon by society and I can see why.


lol you don't really get positive attention faking autism, none the less sure maybe there are some that knowingly fake, but so what? Most people I've run into that have self diagnosed seem to describe pretty legitimate reasons and concerns as to why they think they have autism. Sure faking is going to be frowned upon, but I also see a lot of assumptions that someone is faking or basing their self diagnoses on a single social akward trait...when that is not what they are saying at all.


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Sweetleaf
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12 Jun 2015, 9:16 pm

btbnnyr wrote:
The most important purpose of professional diagnosis is outside observation to match individual traits to traits of autism.
The individual who self-diagnoses cannot do that, no matter how well they know themselves from the inside.
The autism traits are to be matched with individual traits from the outside, not the inside, so self-diagnosis of matching outside autism traits with inside individual traits is misuse of diagnostic criteria.
Self-diagnosis misses the most important component of autism assessment, then replaces that component with misuse of diagnostic criteria.


Expect outside observation is actually not the most important part or purpose of professional diagnoses...sure it is important but since it can be confused with other disorders, the self report as well as any history the individuals family can give is at least equally as important. But then I had to study the diagnoses process in abnormal psychology in college.


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btbnnyr
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12 Jun 2015, 9:52 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
btbnnyr wrote:
The most important purpose of professional diagnosis is outside observation to match individual traits to traits of autism.
The individual who self-diagnoses cannot do that, no matter how well they know themselves from the inside.
The autism traits are to be matched with individual traits from the outside, not the inside, so self-diagnosis of matching outside autism traits with inside individual traits is misuse of diagnostic criteria.
Self-diagnosis misses the most important component of autism assessment, then replaces that component with misuse of diagnostic criteria.


Expect outside observation is actually not the most important part or purpose of professional diagnoses...sure it is important but since it can be confused with other disorders, the self report as well as any history the individuals family can give is at least equally as important. But then I had to study the diagnoses process in abnormal psychology in college.


Outside observation is the most important part, as measured by structured/task-based interviews like ADOS.
Also comparison of person's behavior with official diagnostic criteria like DSM or ICD criteria.
Psychs write notes supporting the criteria that are matched in diagnostic report, and if not matched, they note that it is not matched.
Self-report and childhood history are both supplementing the outside observation.
Self-report is used in high-functioning adults.
Childhood diagnosis lacks self-report.
Childhood history is important, but not always done if parents or other family members are not available.
Neuropsych tests like IQ and other task-based tests are also given sometimes, but none are specific for autism, so they are optional in my opinion, esp if they cost a lot.


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12 Jun 2015, 10:37 pm

kicker wrote:
I've read through every page, every single post, it was like watching children arguing over whose the 'pooh pooh face'. With a select few being somewhat tolerant. (You can decide for yourself whose who, better yet just assume I think it was all childish then you won't argue with anyone who is willing to argue back.)

Both sides with extremely staunch views. [B&W thinking]
...

Kicker - Great post. Though, a question (and hopefully this doesn’t cause this thread to veer off topic). But, why is having an extremely staunch view on one particular topic B&W thinking? As a note, I recently started a thread about B&W thinking and am still confused about when someone qualifies as being a B&W thinker.



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12 Jun 2015, 10:59 pm

Rocket123 wrote:
kicker wrote:
I've read through every page, every single post, it was like watching children arguing over whose the 'pooh pooh face'. With a select few being somewhat tolerant. (You can decide for yourself whose who, better yet just assume I think it was all childish then you won't argue with anyone who is willing to argue back.)

Both sides with extremely staunch views. [B&W thinking]
...

Kicker - Great post. Though, a question (and hopefully this doesn’t cause this thread to veer off topic). But, why is having an extremely staunch view on one particular topic B&W thinking? As a note, I recently started a thread about B&W thinking and am still confused about when someone qualifies as being a B&W thinker.


B&W thinking refers to the ideation or thought that if something was once A it will always be A never A+ or B. It's very stagnant and rigid thinking. Examples given here: Self diagnosis is invalid/Professional diagnosis is invalid. A 'grey' view would be, 'I'm glad that self diagnosis has worked for you, I however needed a professional one to feel confident. If you feel that you're current coping skills are insufficient a professional opinion might help.'



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12 Jun 2015, 11:27 pm

kicker wrote:
B&W thinking refers to the ideation or thought that if something was once A it will always be A never A+ or B. It's very stagnant and rigid thinking. Examples given here: Self diagnosis is invalid/Professional diagnosis is invalid. A 'grey' view would be, 'I'm glad that self diagnosis has worked for you, I however needed a professional one to feel confident. If you feel that you're current coping skills are insufficient a professional opinion might help.'

If I understand the example correctly, I am very much a B&W thinker. I wouldn't say something I didn't believe, just to make someone else feel better.



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12 Jun 2015, 11:33 pm

Sorry I got side tracked mid thought.

To continue:

The reason that would be considered a 'grey' view is, because it allows for the possibility that something might work for someone else, while still allowing for the idea that something different worked for you. For the most part if your thought contains, 'always, should, shouldn't, never, etc' it's most likely a B&W thought. Sometimes B&W thinking is good though, you shouldn't get in cars with strangers, you should get dressed before going outside (unless you live in a nudist colony or own a lot of land), you should try to be tolerant of others even when they aren't as tolerant as you.

Another example of B&W thinking is I always like my tea in a certain mug, I get very flustered when it's not in that mug, because it should be in it that's the mug I always use. I won't allow anyone else to use it unless they have no other choice. Is it important that I change that, no not really it doesn't hurt anyone that I like my tea out of that mug. Would it hurt if I had to drink from a different mug, well..... :wink:



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12 Jun 2015, 11:54 pm

Rocket123 wrote:
kicker wrote:
B&W thinking refers to the ideation or thought that if something was once A it will always be A never A+ or B. It's very stagnant and rigid thinking. Examples given here: Self diagnosis is invalid/Professional diagnosis is invalid. A 'grey' view would be, 'I'm glad that self diagnosis has worked for you, I however needed a professional one to feel confident. If you feel that you're current coping skills are insufficient a professional opinion might help.'

If I understand the example correctly, I am very much a B&W thinker. I wouldn't say something I didn't believe, just to make someone else feel better.



I actually didn't say anything I didn't believe. I am glad that self diagnosis works for some people, if that's enough for them, ok. I couldn't do it, I wouldn't do it. If they feel they still need support after self diagnosing they should seek out professional help, because expecting others to support them isn't a very healthy approach and will lead to feeling more isolated and alone especially when the expectation is that everyone accepts their views. It just isn't going to happen, ever. Whether we are talking about diagnosis methods or the best way to make an apple pie.

I can only suggest what has worked for me as that is my experience. Demanding or belittling someone for not seeking out a professional won't make them any more likely to do so. If anything it will lead to resentment and frustration for everyone involved.

So I honestly didn't say anything I didn't believe, but I worded it so that everyone could walk away unless they have a mental problem, that's another subject all together.



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13 Jun 2015, 12:28 am

I don't hate self-diagnosers at all--unless they really don't seem to be on the spectrum to me, in which case it feels like they expect that I understand them or feel some sort of kinship when I don 't. On the other hand, a lot of people who ARE professionally diagnosed are so different from me that I don't feel a connection either, so with self-diagnosed people I'm not quick to judge.

Also, I generally do feel a sense of "otherness" to many who weren't diagnosed until adulthood. And many who are self-diagnosed are that way--I haven't met many people who self-diagnosed (or were diagnosed by parents, without input from a professional) in childhood. My behavioral issues as a child were such that I pretty much HAD to be diagnosed with something, and many who made it to adulthood without contact with professional psychologists had much less severe problems, hence a more "normal" childhood. Also, people who believed they were "normal" as kids tend to have fit in better, hence they are more normal/mainstream as adults.



btbnnyr
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13 Jun 2015, 12:32 am

My problems with self-diagnosis are not the type that could be resolved by "it's good that it works for you, but it doesn't work for me". I don't believe in the validity of the process of self-diagnosis, and I consider saying that one is autistic without official diagnosis to be misrepresentation. I also don't believe in diagnosis for personal or group identity reasons. I believe in diagnosis to address impairments. I find more connection with people who don't self-diagnose, but recognize that they have autistic traits, they seem more similar to me in terms of how they think and feel.


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13 Jun 2015, 12:34 am

btbnnyr wrote:
Rocket123 wrote:
btbnnyr wrote:
The overall diagnosis direction caused by issues with professional diagnosis is unclear.
Overdiagnosis may be the biggest effect.

Perhaps validation for those who doubt their diagnosis?

For what it's worth , I suspect (based upon no evidence whatsoever) that most self-diagnosed folks on WP would receive a professional diagnosis, if that were within their means (by means, I mean access to a professional and funds to afford one).


I haven't gotten that impression that most self-diagnosed people on wp would be professionally diagnosed if they were assessed. Occasionally, I think that someone who describes their autistic traits is quite likely autistic. I ackshuly think people who have autistic traits but don't self-diagnose are more likely to be professionally diagnosed, and some are waiting for assessment.


And? so you don't think many self diagnosed on here would recieve an official diagnoses if assessed, yet from what I observe more often than not self diagnosed members here do get official diagnoses when assessed....me included. Either way you don't know enough about anyone here to really know whether they'd receive an official diagnoses if assessed or not....that aside I've read plenty from autism experts and many of them think many times if someone comes to think they have autism chances are they do, I mean I've heard that so much its almost like a catch phrase.


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13 Jun 2015, 12:40 am

btbnnyr wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
btbnnyr wrote:
The most important purpose of professional diagnosis is outside observation to match individual traits to traits of autism.
The individual who self-diagnoses cannot do that, no matter how well they know themselves from the inside.
The autism traits are to be matched with individual traits from the outside, not the inside, so self-diagnosis of matching outside autism traits with inside individual traits is misuse of diagnostic criteria.
Self-diagnosis misses the most important component of autism assessment, then replaces that component with misuse of diagnostic criteria.


Expect outside observation is actually not the most important part or purpose of professional diagnoses...sure it is important but since it can be confused with other disorders, the self report as well as any history the individuals family can give is at least equally as important. But then I had to study the diagnoses process in abnormal psychology in college.


Outside observation is the most important part, as measured by structured/task-based interviews like ADOS.
Also comparison of person's behavior with official diagnostic criteria like DSM or ICD criteria.
Psychs write notes supporting the criteria that are matched in diagnostic report, and if not matched, they note that it is not matched.
Self-report and childhood history are both supplementing the outside observation.
Self-report is used in high-functioning adults.
Childhood diagnosis lacks self-report.
Childhood history is important, but not always done if parents or other family members are not available.
Neuropsych tests like IQ and other task-based tests are also given sometimes, but none are specific for autism, so they are optional in my opinion, esp if they cost a lot.


Well that is your opinion, but simple observation compared to traits in the DSM is not the most important part of diagnoses....it is just as important as everything else, but not the most important thing.


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