Aspie Elitism

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Inventor, your profile lists your diagnosis as "Not sure if I have it or not". Is this up to date? And if it is, does this mean I can ignore your posts if they sound elitist?

I never said that one had to be gifted to be a true AS. I'm just saying that there are some people who seem to resent whenever AS talk about how wonderful their experience of a sensory-based experience. Say, some synesthetic who has the ability to be very visual about what they hear, and maybe use that in their painting. Some people here come down very heavy on anyone who tries to say that their autistic experience of reality can be wonderful or joyful or that an AS trait can be a blessing.

It seems to me that there is a lot of misery and disability-focused treatment of AS traits and issues here. More people talk like you, and insist on experiencing AS as a disability, and significant impairment, i.e. negatively.

Just because there is a certain diagnostic criteria and process for evaluating AS people for support services and medical treatment interventions, doesn't mean that one has to go around describing one's existence as an impaired or crippled one.

Or labelling people who celebrate their unusual, unique traits and their sometimes joyful experience of their autism, as "elitists".

It's not like some doctor is logging on here, snooping to see if you say you're happy with this or that aspect of AS, and will take you off disability if you admit AS is not a totally degraded existence.

No, not everyone who has AS has giftedness, and not everyone who has AS has "special interests" for that matter. But just because medical system diagnostic process says certain things about impairment and disability doesn't mean people should use that perspective to experience themselves and their lives as AS in that way.

I misunderstood. Yes, that part can be very nice.

Uh.... Inventor, the way you describe Autism sounds much similar to aspergers especially in the way you "live" your life....although I could be wrong.

Based off the internet, no one can really know what a person's life's like or how they deal with everyday life. The only conclusions one can come to is by a post and sometimes even that's not reliable being how some value style over substance or aren't gifted at articulating complex thoughts. For me, I was defined as stupid and maybe even slightly ret*d because I could barely speak in grade school. They were about to put me in a special class when eventually I started catching on. Even though I had difficulty in talking, I still could understand what was being said to me. I was also very hyperfocused on my interests...I don't even know how I got through school.

I tend to disagree to an extent over these divisions on the autistic spectrum only because as long as I've been here, people like to compare apples with so-called oranges. The more I come here the more I find people on the autistic spectrum similar in the way they "function" only difference is how well they function in given instances. That's not to say there's a not a difference between the two. But by personal observation, most people on the spectrum feel like they don't fit the criteria of "normal" or "highly" functional but even that has personal meaning to each person on the spectrum when conflicted with any given situation. It's a little hard to divide what is autistic and what is "normal". I see some NTs rant about how different they feel within a given social circumstance and think to myself ASPIE! ...even though they're not. So you see, it's hard for me to tell which is autistic, which is aspie-ish, and which is "normal" since so many people have their own little neat definitions.

I even get sick of hearing about how aspies are sooooo different from NTs, that there have been times I wanted to leave this site. But it's addictive....

There are many people who come to this site sepcifically so they can find out more about aspergers (not autism as a core) but aspergers as a distinct condition so they can better adopt what is perceived to be an 'Aspie' personality so they have a better excuse for their less than perfect social life or other problems such as schooling, work place integration etc., etc. I guess it never occurs to anybody anymore that even NT's have the same probelems that most of us have. These are life problems in general for all types of people.
Rant of the day completed.

As for hating myself and playing the victim, i left that one to the birds a bit of a time ago now.


And I am happy in my life.
very happy.
Complete Narcissist with a strong social justice bent.

And no-one else has put their had up to being a narcissist - which may just indicate how contentious it is to accept that about ourselvs if we are on the spectrum.
I see the acceptance of this and the immersion in it to be the key to happiness. AND the key to happiness of others around me, once they understand i cannot help it and cannot change it, (As the attempted change leads to too much pain and depression in me, which everyone then has to contend with.)


as an aside.

i really do not even understand how or why people get jobs away from their special interests.

I might rephrase that given some of the posts above.

I really do not even understand how or why people get lives away from their gifts.

( a bit of paid work may be necessary. )


and contrary to the distinction made above somewhere, i would say the issue of whether a special interest is a gift would depend on whether you are relating to the object of the interest from the outside looking in, or from the inside looking out.

the gift of coloured bus tickets stuck to a whole wall - covering the entire surface in pattern and colour. OH WHOOPS....that is not a gift - that is JUST a special interest because we cannot measure it according to standard notions of giftedness.

if people intellectually consider a move away from the traditional perception of things, )they might find the most unimagineable beauty in that scrappy old ungifted and eccentric old wall that is not important because it does not fit into classic categorisations.

my argument is a perceptual one. and the only ones who seem to understand it are the ones who are there.

Last edited by millie on 18 Mar 2009, 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Or get a diagnosis.... Or find out what it's about rather than what they percieve it to be.... Or come here to get insight and some support, Or for personal reasons such as a family member who may have it....Or how to learn by other people in the spectrum on how to cope with some of the everyday issues...Or.......

The only reason I joined was I had been recently diagnosed as having aspergers. I didn't know what the hell that was or anyone who had it. Coming here was somewhat of a revelation to me as I questioned myself as to how I was percieved by others.

Aspie or not, it did give me a sense of self acceptance. For a long time I was in denial and hated it. I thought I could fix my social clumsiness and academic tasks for a long time....and as it turns out, there are some things you just can't change.

No offense Gary, but I had no idea what the hell autism was except what I seen on TV...which looked like a bunch of children with anger issues especially that one on Oprah. Now that may sound shallow but it was something I was never educated about or knew enough of.

There I said it....



*Prepares for the autie-aspie inquisition*

you may ignore my posts for any reason you like.

The subject of have it or not came up before, same answer now, I do not think it exists, not the subsets, and the core of Big A, has only been reported on by outsiders who get paid for acting important.

As for experts, I read Rush, On the Brain, or On the Mind, Ben Rush I think, one of the first, and a bit strange. Jung was a showman, I did like the art book, Freud was a fraud, and I was there when Skinners work was new, and we are not rats, well most of us.

I got more out of the Evens Wentz translation of the Bardol Thol, the Tibeten Book of the Dead.

I ignore a lot of the medical posts, which all start from, Doctor, what is wrong with them?

I trancend the wrongness of a state of being to see it clearly.

I do understand the garyww view of a quantum state, Physics not Psychics.

Dense energy in some parts of the brain, others out to lunch, things are different.

I have had bolt from the blue thoughts that stopped me in my tracks and left me staring, I got a patent on the last one, they are not like other thought forms.

My skills, special interests run to machines, electronics, where there are some standards, a volt is a volt, what I cannot see I can measure, but people are not like that, no standards, nothing to measure, and we cannot reach the conclusion that everyone who steals, lies, kills, does it for the same reason.

I am low function social, I cannot read those machines, I am with garyww on the brain has a structure that produces energy, the mind is an energy field, and ideas are energy fields we can induce into others. I miss on mirror neurons, but idea transfer does work.

I am good at looking at a machine and seeing what is not working. It is usually one part in a hundred or thousand, but I see system, and what is not working stands out. I cannot do that with humans.

None of my machines have syndromes, conditions, complexes, their Id is not in conflict with Superego. They might has a loose wire, blown fuze, bad contact, there is a reason.

I make/save a lot because others do not see like I do. They are smart, educated, but draw a blank on systems. I draw an equal blank on humans.

Garyww again, I also have a lot of the same problems as the rest of the world, and a few extra.

About all I am good at is seeing how systems fit together and work.

Miss.....
I don't suppose you came here pretending to be something other than what you were. I imagine that your posts were much like my early posts, asking open and honest questions, seeking open and honest advice. That is not the 'norm' here anymore for posts by newbies. There are sincere people for sure coming here but I personally think they are outnumbered by pretenders.

Well I wouldn't know but yeah you have people here and there who think it's something special to have or whatnot.

People have their own reasons and I'm no psychic...I wish.

When I first came her I thought Aspie, I had just discovered it was a club, not just me.

I could not understand what was meant by LFA, HFA, AS. Slowly I came to see, LFA, low IQ, HFA, high IQ with speech delay, and AS no speech delay. No speech delay here, but a hermit.

I can deal with people in limited scripted situations. Mostly I avoid them, but I do have the choice. Non scripted I have noticed since being here I am rude and uncaring. Someone I had not seen since before the Katrina flood asked how I had faired, I said fine, and did not ask how they did. I notice those things now, but that is how I am. In some ways it was better when I did not know.

I am a rotten house keeper, personal care is not overdone, and I eat out a lot.

AS should be rare. In the core of Autism, I was tested professionally as a child, and my IQ scores were bottom of the scale, and top of the scale, as I recall, it was fifty years ago, out of four groups, two high, two low, and still an above score. So half of me is LFA, a dormant twin, and half of me is very bright, but attached.

Do what you do best is good advice, you can only play what you have.

I go out, drive, had a good home computer repair business before Katrina, when that vanished one morning I still had machines, I started printing and publishing, it worked till recently. It lasted long enough to fund my next project, a larger entry in a broader market that is recession proof.

So I can move around and function in business, some can't. Some of it is just age, I have been watching and doing for a while. Some of it is because I do it every day, persistance.

Everyone has a different mind, go with what you are good at and enjoy doing, do it a lot.

I have high reading comprehension, and spatial relationships, the rest is missing, but I can learn to get by where I have to. I can read the manual, and look in the machine, I am a super brain, or those other people are not real, but at my rates, I do not care.

When I go to the post office to send something international, and have to fill out the customs form, they put it on the remedial counter, for I do not write well, I draw letters and numbers slowly, large, and not neat. They also deal with the little old lady who comes in and asks if she just bought stamps, and they tell her she did, and then she asks if she paid, and they say she did, and she is a regular.

After I am allowed back in the real line they check my spelling, I can screw up, I get lost in drawing letters and thinking at the same time. And standing up, and in a strange plce, with other people I do not know. School focused on fixing my writing till they threw me out as hopeless. So I am self educated, but with a typewriter I could have gone far.

I think I remember everything I ever read. And I disagree with a lot of it. People in narrow fields should check their comments in other fields. Edward O. Wilson, in Consiliance, knowledge has fragmented, till one branch cannot understand the other. Information is only useful in the context of the whole of knowledge. Doctor of Natural Philosophy was the only Degree, it covered everything, and what interested you, but you were grounded in a knowledge of all.

So I am a mix of parts, and can only see One Autism, many manifestations. Lab Pet is AS, HFA, a Slayer of Therapists, and Non Verbal. A Doctorate in Neurology is beneath her skills, but she will continue gathering. Much does not work, but Science and Mathematics does.

Most of my life I was considered hopeless, and they tried to stop me from doing things. Autism was a ret*d, and I caught hell for readng in science, history, mechanics, and not behaving like a proper ret*d, there was talk of having me locked up, but at eighteen I was running the latest system from IBM for a large wholesaler. My family was against me going to the University because I had been thrown out of grammer school as a hopeless moron. Them being right was more important than my life.

nonomialist who posts here was locked up as a child, for a long time, he is now a Full Professor with a Doctorate.

So we are crossing some very different worlds here. It is also showing since the internet, that non verbal LFA are there, and are smart. I consider them like me drawing letters, lacking some skills, but keyboards are great. Most of my insight and factual knowledge has come from what is called the low end, but to me it is the deep end.

I seek insight into being human, it is the same with the intelligent sub set of NT. We have the same problems with the same people, they might be better at dealing with it, but I found a lot of recluses and limited world, intelligent NT.

Perhaps 50% of humanity are inhuman monsters, perhaps 75%, I do not go out a lot. Overall, at least a third of them are all in the same boat, decent intelligent people who would like to learn to be better humans.

We are not the only ones who are disapointed with humans. A very intelligent NT person I knew said they were going to open a "Home for the Criminally Naive." Trusting people did not work for them.

Even if we can linkup with the better NT underground, we are still outnumbered two to one.

unfortunatly I don't have the concentration to read a 12 page thread, but I shall put my 2 cents forth.

TL/DR wall of text coming up

I consider myself an elitist. However, I have my own personal definition of elitism. For me, it is basically wanting people to strive for personal progression and achievement, shrugging off adversity and moving out of their comfort zone to what may well be a better place.

Being the eternal underachiever, I try to work very hard to get things right; when I get stuck in a rut, I look to others for advice, and through grim determination pull myself out. I don't do this to be better than others, because there will always be someone "better" than you in some way, so what's the point? I do it to be better than myself, to be come a better person than I am in the present.

When I see people who get stuck in a rut, and simply bemoan their situation, when they could climb out, I get annoyed. I get even more annoyed, when people say their view from the rut makes them better than those on level ground, or in other ruts (Am I doing this now? I certainly hope not). Is this elitism? by my own definition, yes, but I would much rather help people better themselves by showing them how to get out (though maybe in a chastising way) than stand on the lip and just Gloat.

Anyway, if this definition of Elitism relevent? I'm not sure. Back on topic.

The psychology of people who claim superiority through Asperger's fascinate as well as frustrate me. Psychologically, ther'e may be something of the inferority complex around younger people with Aspergers. And sometimes people with Inferority complexes generate superiority complexes to cover them up.
I agree that playing to your strengths is a good thing, but it should be done, like all things, in moderation.

A series of Unfortunate events trained me to have this viewpoint (no, nothing to do with Lemony Snicket )

So, I'm going to be self important and talk about msyself now.

I think I could say I had a tough childhood.

I had physical deformities in my legs, for which I had my first surgery when I was 6, one of my parents died when I was 10, I had a nervous breakdown when I was 15, etc. It strikes me as almost unreal that this succession of things happened in such a short time. Hell, half the time, I feel like they didn't happen, and I just made them up.
(feel free to call me out as being a liar, I can't really prove it to be true, I have no real evidence other than the memories of myself and those around me. I don't see what I would gain from lying about it anyway.)

Having had this stressful childhood and the mental instabiltiy that came as an after effect, I became quite contemplative.
I looked at philosophy and psychology to try and understand life and people. I was pretty bad at reading body language, so I purchased books on the subject.

The fact that I don't find a lot of people in thier early to mid 20s (like myself) who are also contemplative is frustrating, though I take solace in the company of older, wiser people.
But anyway, I digress.

I think a lot of aspies here, self Dx'd or no, suffer from 'blinkered vision' as one psychiatric nurse I know said.
Becuase they excel in one field, they feel like nothing outside of that field is of any value to them, i.e. they become obsessive.

I think that, like me, some of these aspies have a boiling undercurrent of rage and misanthropy that sometimes reaches the surface and lashes out.

in the face of being 'outsiders' from the mainstream zeitgeist (Ok now I'm jsut showing off ), they project their anger onto others, possibly those they percieve as lesser to themselves, as they are percieved lesser by others (or think so) such as fully autistic people and those with LFA, to secure thier place in the 'pecking order' of ASD, or NTs as a form of reverse descrimination ( which I have seen a fair amount of before).

Anyway, I'm done rambling now. *raises flameshield*

One of the more meaningful and relevant posts on this thread, in terms of being consistent with my experiences with my "version" of Asperger syndrome. AS are highly individual and tend to be unique. But this is close.

I enjoyed that particular post. Unlike many peopole here I generally enjoy hearing from people who are 'different' than the sterotypical Aspie air head portrayed by so many sites, this one included.
It is the 'strange' people out there that make the world go round and someday everybody will realize that fact.

vorzac...i also liked your post and was about to post that when i noticed the above two posters had gotten in first.

you are weird. that is a compliment.

you both Humble me.

I'm flattered