WHERE have all the Adults gone???

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He was diagnosed when his son, Cubby / Jack was 5.


I believe it depends on the place and context. On WP, women are seemingly overrepresented about two times (still being the minority), while looking at the number of posts this effect might be even stronger.

It's a known phenomenon that women in general have better adaptation skills. Some say that they are more hard pressed to conform with the norm. No wonder there are less diagnoses, even if there is a physiological difference, too.

I'm often unaware of someone's gender on WP unless there's something in a post or a picture of them as an icon. Perhaps that's why so many women post here. It matters less.

The DSM says one thing, but what criteria an individual uses in actual diagnosis may be another, as we've seen in the cases of those who've been misdiagnosed or gone undiagnosed after a botched assessment. Personal bias is a definite factor. So, I guess we'll keep having to deal with it, no matter how the DSM changes.

I thought was rather interesting actually. I do think of gender less when posting here, including my own. I think more about age. Anyone else?

(an addition to the adult diagnosed authors: Michael John Carley. He wrote Apsergers from the Inside Out)

Great thread, just adding another book written by adult diagnosed in their forties. Title is: Congratulations it's Asperger's Syndrome, by Jen Birch, published by Jessica Kingsley Publishers . Quite helpful for me as a female - so many things i thought only i had experienced, she wrote about and I began to forgive myself.

Interesting that there is a gender spectrum as well as an autism spectrum, where culture in the distant past expected clear definitions, which are not as clear per the parameters of culture in the US today, starting somewhere in the 60's with the acceptance of neutral gender roles in music culture. It seemed like "the pill" was more responsible for this than any other factor, per the entire western developed world.

The gender spectrum per physiology is extremely interesting, I worked at a Bowling Center when I was young, and can remember reaching for a pair of male shoes for an obvious female, and doing the opposite for an obvious male, but it was almost subconscious in effect before I took notice of the obvious fact of their gender.

It is more than obvious that hormones make the difference in development as to bone structure, musculature, narrow hips, wide hips, and all these factors physiologically associated with what is male and what is female, but it indeed is a spectrum.

What is even more interesting though is that sometimes it is obviously an issue more specific to the brain and not as obvious per basic external physiology. The best example I can think of is Tim Tebow, in that he is referred to as Superman on the football field, but effeminate in his communication. However it is what we culturally assume to be effeminate in lots of expressed emotion, verbosity, and exaggerated body language. I can't help but to think that prenatal stress documented for him as an individual, provided an interesting mix of human being, as part of that general spectrum that one often doesn't see. The fact that he is left handed has associations as well per potential hemispheric dominance or lack of hemispheric dominance.

One could imagine how difficult it could be for him to try to suppress that nature, to make others happy in society that expect him to fit a mold in communication based on his football skills, as well as his aggressive nature on the field. Really interesting watching him on the set, with other sports casters, in their reserved nature as opposed to his flamboyant communication style. But not likely many people would challenge his strength and size one on one, in attempting to slap him around for it.

Fortunate for him, he doesn't appear to be too concerned about it.

There is also research that suggests that female to male trans men, have a higher measured level of autistic like traits than male to female trans women. Lots of speculation but no hard evidence as to why. Cultural indoctrination factors are suspected as part of the issue, but it seems at least, in part, associated with the other study.

But per the first study, it looks more and more like hormones play a significant associating factor at least in some sub-groups of autism.

Tim Tebow would never be diagnosed on the Autism Spectrum, obviously, but he definitely does not have what one would consider typical neurology, based on behavioral observation.

More to fact there is no typical neurology, when we consider the reality of the gender spectrum, and evidenced behavioral and physiological characteristics where there are no steadfast cultural rules that can account for all the differences. That are also evidenced associated with some subgroups of autism spectrum disorder.

Last edited by aghogday on 05 Jul 2012, 2:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

There's no such thing as a "male to female trans man." I think you meant "trans women."

As Aghogday already said, the "tech geek" stereotype was never part of the official diagnostic criteria, but, unfortunately, certain mental health professionals tend to rely on the stereotypes.

Furthermore, there are certain general trends seen in men and women, and I don't see why they wouldn't manifest in autistic populations. For example, I'm fairly "butch" when compared to most baseline women, but I'm still bad at math, read a good amount of fiction, am great in most language-based subjects, and I had pretend play as a child. Now, this could mean I'm not really an Aspie, or it could mean I'm just a girl Aspie.

Yes, that was a typo, thanks for pointing that out.

Yes.

In surveys done here, there are guys and girls that are bad at math, and good at language, as well as some that do creative writing; that doesn't appear to just apply to females with Aspergers, at least from anecdotal evidence presented here. But, interestingly enough, my sister diagnosed with Aspergers fits that description and has the brain lesions in the right hemisphere of the brain associated with non-verbal learning disorder NLD although the doctors never made a connection with either NLD, Aspergers, or the lesions in the right hemisphere of the brain. There is a college preparatory school dedicated to helping individuals with both conditions in California, with an individual that has spent her life studying the similarities. Very interesting information, that I came across a while back, linked below to "Orion Academy".

It is interesting how similar Non-verbal learning disorder is to Aspergers. But, it is not classified as a DSM5 disorder, with some confusion as to what it actually is. I suppose many people with associated symptoms will be diagnosed with Autism Spectrum disorder or Social communication disorder, depending on criteria one meets. But the learning problems associated with the condition will persist in school.

Add in pragmatic language impairments and hyperlexia and it gets even more confusing. I wouldn't want to be a diagnosing professional trying to sort all this stuff out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pragmatic_language_impairment


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonverbal_learning_disorder

http://www.orionacademy.org/

No problem - I did assume a typo but wanted to be sure.

True enough, sex (physical signs), gender (self-perception or sense of self), gender expression (outward indicators of gender, whether intentional or not), sexual orientation (direction of attraction), and other things all refuse to fit into tidy little boxes of either/or. Even "spectrum", as a term, may fail if it's taken to mean falling somewhere on a straight line. It tends to be better to think in 3D, I think. Consider how different people with ASD are from each other, and apply that same idea to gender, for example. There are varying degrees to which someone whose sex and gender don't match might be comfortable or uncomfortable living in that body. Living in that body might have different kinds of meaning and be objected to or enjoyed for different reasons. Consider gender expression, and we can think of the different ways in which a man who identifies as masculine or a woman who identifies as butch may experience or display that. There are different forms that femininity can take, from reveling in being very made-up and frilly to being really elegant and poised to being very soft and sweet to being voluptuous and sensuous, and more - and even in different combinations and to varying degrees.

I think my butchness and mixed gender perception combine with my comfort level with my female body in a way that intersects with my lack of concern over letting the whole thing be overly important, which may come both from society's current openness and, perhaps, some Aspieness about me that makes me be more concerned with other things and less worried about societal attitudes.

In any case, though, people will be what they are, regardless of whether or not society lets them be open about it or even acknowledges their existence at all. I try to avoid falling into the trap of thinking that things can only exist if I have a word for them, and I think an enlightened society makes that same effort.

So, somebody really did say, "Congratulations!" about this? That rocks! I'll have to read that book. And I'll have to note that in a blog entry then, because I was wrong about it in my last blog post. I was comparing the situation to when Ellen came out on her show and was being interviewed at the time. She even got a cake after she said nobody gives you one that says that about being gay. Now, if I get diagnosed, I really do want that cake! Next Tuesday's the day...

Same with my relationship. Indeed a different mix, though still compatible.

I found this interesting and relevant to our discussion here:

Blog Post
Autism – A Billion Dollar Industry

When we, as adults, adapt over the years, we do what this person is talking about. But we do it for ourselves. I think of this as being more evidence that parents could - and should - learn from us.

No need for thanks, this is WP, people will point out typos whether you want it or not