16 Apr 2013, 2:50 am
Verdandi
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16 Apr 2013, 3:33 am
16 Apr 2013, 4:12 am
Tyri0n
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16 Apr 2013, 11:34 am
aghogday wrote:
Pretty good article linked below from someone on the spectrum.
Tyrion, I've come across more than a few individuals on the internet that tick all the symptoms below, and suggest they are autistic. Which is not out of the realm of possibility, as research shows Personality Disorders are very common among individuals with PDDNOS and Aspergers.
BPD, is one of the less frequent ones along with ASPD. The most common are OCD PD, Avoidant PD, Schizoid PD, Paranoid PD & Schizotypal PD.
In the research 2 Personality Disorders were assessed in 30 to 40% of individuals with PDDNOS and Asperger's, and over 60% assessed with 1 Personality Disorder.
Per this link: http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt218441.html
As far as the symptoms listed below, at least in your written communication, you are one of the last people I have ever come across on the internet suggesting there were on a spectrum that I would suspect might have BPD.
Two traits you do illustrate more than anything in this thread is that you have an extreme amount of moral conscience of what is right and what is wrong, and you care about how other people feel. That is not uncommon among people diagnosed on the spectrum. A moral code and compassion does not require good Reciprocal Communication ability.
I take things literally and I can easily imagine myself with BPD, given the word alone, as I have always used a method of mimicking as an adaptation to social interaction, that is hard and takes a great deal of conscious effort but has worked for me to get me through life.
Sexual Abuse in childhood is associated with BPD, but it is also associated with many other types of personality disorders.
I see you as a very good person. I'm quite sure most people do, otherwise, there would not be 12 pages of responses from people who care about you and want to help.
Perhaps you cannot fully see that, which is not uncommon for people on the spectrum that have difficulty seeing the perspectives of others. That doesn't mean they don't try, and that doesn't mean they don't try so hard that they end up being more compassionate than most.
The most difficult part at times, at least for me in my life, was having compassion for myself.
At least, from your writing, that is what I see in you.
I wish I could tell you something that would help. It took me a long time to find a counselor that could help me. I eventually found one, like me who had the ability for great compassion for others, who at one point had no compassion for herself, but found a way out. Since then she has been helping many others. I suppose that is what it takes for some, a special root of perspective.
I understand that may be only one small issue of your assessed problems for yourself, if at all, but it is something that can be helped no matter how difficult things might look now. CBT is a good therapy, and the main therapy recommended to me as a person that tends to over-analyze everything. That can be okay, until one's self becomes the focus of analysis.
And, as an oh by the way, I recently became acquainted with a person who is close to being on the spectrum, with a child on the spectrum, who was misdiagnosed with BPD in teenage years. She has been in clinical practice helping many people with BPD, and has come to see many of the signs of that condition from people on the internet, seemingly seeking community in identifying with what has become an acceptable label for a disorder among some to identify with.
It never fully clicked fully for me, as I was sure I was not seeing ASPD and I was pretty sure I was not seeing NPD. However, after reading the selected symptoms below that is most often what I was seeing in written communication.
I have only come across one male fully exhibiting those symptoms in written communication, which is probably because the avenues I have crossed are not popular ones among males.
http://autismsd.com/borderline-personal ... nd-autism/
Tyrion, I've come across more than a few individuals on the internet that tick all the symptoms below, and suggest they are autistic. Which is not out of the realm of possibility, as research shows Personality Disorders are very common among individuals with PDDNOS and Aspergers.
BPD, is one of the less frequent ones along with ASPD. The most common are OCD PD, Avoidant PD, Schizoid PD, Paranoid PD & Schizotypal PD.
In the research 2 Personality Disorders were assessed in 30 to 40% of individuals with PDDNOS and Asperger's, and over 60% assessed with 1 Personality Disorder.
Per this link: http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt218441.html
As far as the symptoms listed below, at least in your written communication, you are one of the last people I have ever come across on the internet suggesting there were on a spectrum that I would suspect might have BPD.
Two traits you do illustrate more than anything in this thread is that you have an extreme amount of moral conscience of what is right and what is wrong, and you care about how other people feel. That is not uncommon among people diagnosed on the spectrum. A moral code and compassion does not require good Reciprocal Communication ability.
I take things literally and I can easily imagine myself with BPD, given the word alone, as I have always used a method of mimicking as an adaptation to social interaction, that is hard and takes a great deal of conscious effort but has worked for me to get me through life.
Sexual Abuse in childhood is associated with BPD, but it is also associated with many other types of personality disorders.
I see you as a very good person. I'm quite sure most people do, otherwise, there would not be 12 pages of responses from people who care about you and want to help.
Perhaps you cannot fully see that, which is not uncommon for people on the spectrum that have difficulty seeing the perspectives of others. That doesn't mean they don't try, and that doesn't mean they don't try so hard that they end up being more compassionate than most.
The most difficult part at times, at least for me in my life, was having compassion for myself.
At least, from your writing, that is what I see in you.
I wish I could tell you something that would help. It took me a long time to find a counselor that could help me. I eventually found one, like me who had the ability for great compassion for others, who at one point had no compassion for herself, but found a way out. Since then she has been helping many others. I suppose that is what it takes for some, a special root of perspective.
I understand that may be only one small issue of your assessed problems for yourself, if at all, but it is something that can be helped no matter how difficult things might look now. CBT is a good therapy, and the main therapy recommended to me as a person that tends to over-analyze everything. That can be okay, until one's self becomes the focus of analysis.
And, as an oh by the way, I recently became acquainted with a person who is close to being on the spectrum, with a child on the spectrum, who was misdiagnosed with BPD in teenage years. She has been in clinical practice helping many people with BPD, and has come to see many of the signs of that condition from people on the internet, seemingly seeking community in identifying with what has become an acceptable label for a disorder among some to identify with.
It never fully clicked fully for me, as I was sure I was not seeing ASPD and I was pretty sure I was not seeing NPD. However, after reading the selected symptoms below that is most often what I was seeing in written communication.
I have only come across one male fully exhibiting those symptoms in written communication, which is probably because the avenues I have crossed are not popular ones among males.
http://autismsd.com/borderline-personal ... nd-autism/
Quote:
Those with BPD have several of the following characteristics:
Don’t accept responsibility for their actions and will actually accuse someone else of any wrongdoing that is their own.
Don’t remember situations the way everyone else does. They will replace negative reflexive memories with memories that make others the “evil” ones.
Claim to not remember anything at all.
Not engage in communication in an adult fashion.
Project their own faults, shortcomings, negativity, poor self esteem, and other issues onto others, including their own children.
Might be physically violent, but more often are very hostile and aggressive when cornered or called out on the rug.
In extreme cases, will play a very unpleasant and malicious “blame game” that causes extensive emotional and psychological hurt to someone one else, but then tell that person “it’s for your own good” or “it’s your fault this is happening”.
Don’t accept responsibility for their actions and will actually accuse someone else of any wrongdoing that is their own.
Don’t remember situations the way everyone else does. They will replace negative reflexive memories with memories that make others the “evil” ones.
Claim to not remember anything at all.
Not engage in communication in an adult fashion.
Project their own faults, shortcomings, negativity, poor self esteem, and other issues onto others, including their own children.
Might be physically violent, but more often are very hostile and aggressive when cornered or called out on the rug.
In extreme cases, will play a very unpleasant and malicious “blame game” that causes extensive emotional and psychological hurt to someone one else, but then tell that person “it’s for your own good” or “it’s your fault this is happening”.
Well, if it's not BPD (I am pretty convinced it isn't by now), how could you explain this in terms of autism? Do you think my comparison to Newson Syndrome is helpful, or not?
What about, specifically, the fact that I get tired of individual people very quickly and when I'm dating someone, this means I either dump them fairly early or else decide to "change" them into something more acceptable (which never works)?
A lot of my impulsive behavior is done out of anger and resentment, too, but I also do it for the usual reasons of thrill, etc. Could you tie this in with Autism/Newson Syndrome/Asperger's as well?
16 Apr 2013, 2:34 pm
16 Apr 2013, 2:50 pm
16 Apr 2013, 3:44 pm
16 Apr 2013, 4:29 pm
aghogday wrote:
Pretty good article linked below from someone on the spectrum.
Tyrion, I've come across more than a few individuals on the internet that tick all the symptoms below, and suggest they are autistic. Which is not out of the realm of possibility, as research shows Personality Disorders are very common among individuals with PDDNOS and Aspergers.
BPD, is one of the less frequent ones along with ASPD. The most common are OCD PD, Avoidant PD, Schizoid PD, Paranoid PD & Schizotypal PD.
In the research 2 Personality Disorders were assessed in 30 to 40% of individuals with PDDNOS and Asperger's, and over 60% assessed with 1 Personality Disorder.
Per this link: http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt218441.html
As far as the symptoms listed below, at least in your written communication, you are one of the last people I have ever come across on the internet suggesting there were on a spectrum that I would suspect might have BPD.
Two traits you do illustrate more than anything in this thread is that you have an extreme amount of moral conscience of what is right and what is wrong, and you care about how other people feel. That is not uncommon among people diagnosed on the spectrum. A moral code and compassion does not require good Reciprocal Communication ability.
I take things literally and I can easily imagine myself with BPD, given the word alone, as I have always used a method of mimicking as an adaptation to social interaction, that is hard and takes a great deal of conscious effort but has worked for me to get me through life.
Sexual Abuse in childhood is associated with BPD, but it is also associated with many other types of personality disorders.
I see you as a very good person. I'm quite sure most people do, otherwise, there would not be 12 pages of responses from people who care about you and want to help.
Perhaps you cannot fully see that, which is not uncommon for people on the spectrum that have difficulty seeing the perspectives of others. That doesn't mean they don't try, and that doesn't mean they don't try so hard that they end up being more compassionate than most.
The most difficult part at times, at least for me in my life, was having compassion for myself.
At least, from your writing, that is what I see in you.
I wish I could tell you something that would help. It took me a long time to find a counselor that could help me. I eventually found one, like me who had the ability for great compassion for others, who at one point had no compassion for herself, but found a way out. Since then she has been helping many others. I suppose that is what it takes for some, a special root of perspective.
I understand that may be only one small issue of your assessed problems for yourself, if at all, but it is something that can be helped no matter how difficult things might look now. CBT is a good therapy, and the main therapy recommended to me as a person that tends to over-analyze everything. That can be okay, until one's self becomes the focus of analysis.
And, as an oh by the way, I recently became acquainted with a person who is close to being on the spectrum, with a child on the spectrum, who was misdiagnosed with BPD in teenage years. She has been in clinical practice helping many people with BPD, and has come to see many of the signs of that condition from people on the internet, seemingly seeking community in identifying with what has become an acceptable label for a disorder among some to identify with.
It never fully clicked fully for me, as I was sure I was not seeing ASPD and I was pretty sure I was not seeing NPD. However, after reading the selected symptoms below that is most often what I was seeing in written communication.
I have only come across one male fully exhibiting those symptoms in written communication, which is probably because the avenues I have crossed are not popular ones among males.
http://autismsd.com/borderline-personal ... nd-autism/
Tyrion, I've come across more than a few individuals on the internet that tick all the symptoms below, and suggest they are autistic. Which is not out of the realm of possibility, as research shows Personality Disorders are very common among individuals with PDDNOS and Aspergers.
BPD, is one of the less frequent ones along with ASPD. The most common are OCD PD, Avoidant PD, Schizoid PD, Paranoid PD & Schizotypal PD.
In the research 2 Personality Disorders were assessed in 30 to 40% of individuals with PDDNOS and Asperger's, and over 60% assessed with 1 Personality Disorder.
Per this link: http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt218441.html
As far as the symptoms listed below, at least in your written communication, you are one of the last people I have ever come across on the internet suggesting there were on a spectrum that I would suspect might have BPD.
Two traits you do illustrate more than anything in this thread is that you have an extreme amount of moral conscience of what is right and what is wrong, and you care about how other people feel. That is not uncommon among people diagnosed on the spectrum. A moral code and compassion does not require good Reciprocal Communication ability.
I take things literally and I can easily imagine myself with BPD, given the word alone, as I have always used a method of mimicking as an adaptation to social interaction, that is hard and takes a great deal of conscious effort but has worked for me to get me through life.
Sexual Abuse in childhood is associated with BPD, but it is also associated with many other types of personality disorders.
I see you as a very good person. I'm quite sure most people do, otherwise, there would not be 12 pages of responses from people who care about you and want to help.
Perhaps you cannot fully see that, which is not uncommon for people on the spectrum that have difficulty seeing the perspectives of others. That doesn't mean they don't try, and that doesn't mean they don't try so hard that they end up being more compassionate than most.
The most difficult part at times, at least for me in my life, was having compassion for myself.
At least, from your writing, that is what I see in you.
I wish I could tell you something that would help. It took me a long time to find a counselor that could help me. I eventually found one, like me who had the ability for great compassion for others, who at one point had no compassion for herself, but found a way out. Since then she has been helping many others. I suppose that is what it takes for some, a special root of perspective.
I understand that may be only one small issue of your assessed problems for yourself, if at all, but it is something that can be helped no matter how difficult things might look now. CBT is a good therapy, and the main therapy recommended to me as a person that tends to over-analyze everything. That can be okay, until one's self becomes the focus of analysis.
And, as an oh by the way, I recently became acquainted with a person who is close to being on the spectrum, with a child on the spectrum, who was misdiagnosed with BPD in teenage years. She has been in clinical practice helping many people with BPD, and has come to see many of the signs of that condition from people on the internet, seemingly seeking community in identifying with what has become an acceptable label for a disorder among some to identify with.
It never fully clicked fully for me, as I was sure I was not seeing ASPD and I was pretty sure I was not seeing NPD. However, after reading the selected symptoms below that is most often what I was seeing in written communication.
I have only come across one male fully exhibiting those symptoms in written communication, which is probably because the avenues I have crossed are not popular ones among males.
http://autismsd.com/borderline-personal ... nd-autism/
Quote:
Those with BPD have several of the following characteristics:
Don’t accept responsibility for their actions and will actually accuse someone else of any wrongdoing that is their own.
Don’t remember situations the way everyone else does. They will replace negative reflexive memories with memories that make others the “evil” ones.
Claim to not remember anything at all.
Not engage in communication in an adult fashion.
Project their own faults, shortcomings, negativity, poor self esteem, and other issues onto others, including their own children.
Might be physically violent, but more often are very hostile and aggressive when cornered or called out on the rug.
In extreme cases, will play a very unpleasant and malicious “blame game” that causes extensive emotional and psychological hurt to someone one else, but then tell that person “it’s for your own good” or “it’s your fault this is happening”.
Don’t accept responsibility for their actions and will actually accuse someone else of any wrongdoing that is their own.
Don’t remember situations the way everyone else does. They will replace negative reflexive memories with memories that make others the “evil” ones.
Claim to not remember anything at all.
Not engage in communication in an adult fashion.
Project their own faults, shortcomings, negativity, poor self esteem, and other issues onto others, including their own children.
Might be physically violent, but more often are very hostile and aggressive when cornered or called out on the rug.
In extreme cases, will play a very unpleasant and malicious “blame game” that causes extensive emotional and psychological hurt to someone one else, but then tell that person “it’s for your own good” or “it’s your fault this is happening”.
So the consensus is that it's not possible for someone with BPD to self-aware at all or intelligent enough to realize they have a problem? Not even anonymously on the internet? That doesn't look like a diagnostic list but a list of nasty stereotypes. It seems like the argument is someone on the autism spectrum can't have cluster-b disorder, even a mild one, because that would tarnish all of us with the "evil" brand rather than being completely innocent misunderstood victims. I realize autistic people are sometimes misdiagnosed with BPD due to things like meltdowns and stress-induced self-harm, but that doesn't mean it's impossible for someone to actually have both. Rare does not mean impossible.
Tyri0n
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Joined: 24 Nov 2012
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,879
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16 Apr 2013, 9:50 pm
littlebee wrote:
Tyri0n wrote:
I kind of had an epiphany. The times when I disparage those with whom I'm in a relationship. Actually, it's because they are a bad fit, and I know they are. It's not necessarily the same as Borderline motivation.
I don't like to be around most people, so when I find myself entangled in a relationship, 99% of the time, we are not compatible and I know it before she does so I (1) dump her on the spot (this has happened) or (2) I make her my project and try to "change" her into something I find more suitable.
My next to last GF was an autistic girl who had more autistic traits than I do and was lower-functioning socially on the surface (though much much higher beneath the surface), so this definitely explained a lot of my behavior. I wanted to change her. That's what it was.
This is an autistic symptom and actually probably fits well with Newson Syndrome but also other autistic concepts. We can't adapt to our environment, so we either switch environments or try to adapt our environment to us. Newson kids in particular try really hard to control their environment to make it more bearable while other autistics just withdraw. My BPD-type behavior could actually just be my Newson/PDD-NOS traits at work.
Maybe this could fit into NPD as well.
But this underscores the need for a correct diagnosis. If, perhaps, I am right, and I still get diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder whenever my therapist gets back to me, then the treatment or therapy prescribed for BPD--DBT--would actually be unsuitable if my behavior is, at its core, a function of my autism.
To the other poster, my mother is NOT a psychiatrist. However, I have been given multiple incorrect diagnoses over the years, so I have lost faith in psychiatry. I will not go to one unless I go armed and prepared, which I did when I went last week.
If it is actually autism, then what this may mean is that, rather than trying to change myself, I need to be more attuned to my needs and focus only on spending time in environments and around people who make me happy. This could require some drastic changes, like leaving Texas. But I want to do that anyway. Very badly.
I don't like to be around most people, so when I find myself entangled in a relationship, 99% of the time, we are not compatible and I know it before she does so I (1) dump her on the spot (this has happened) or (2) I make her my project and try to "change" her into something I find more suitable.
My next to last GF was an autistic girl who had more autistic traits than I do and was lower-functioning socially on the surface (though much much higher beneath the surface), so this definitely explained a lot of my behavior. I wanted to change her. That's what it was.
This is an autistic symptom and actually probably fits well with Newson Syndrome but also other autistic concepts. We can't adapt to our environment, so we either switch environments or try to adapt our environment to us. Newson kids in particular try really hard to control their environment to make it more bearable while other autistics just withdraw. My BPD-type behavior could actually just be my Newson/PDD-NOS traits at work.
Maybe this could fit into NPD as well.
But this underscores the need for a correct diagnosis. If, perhaps, I am right, and I still get diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder whenever my therapist gets back to me, then the treatment or therapy prescribed for BPD--DBT--would actually be unsuitable if my behavior is, at its core, a function of my autism.
To the other poster, my mother is NOT a psychiatrist. However, I have been given multiple incorrect diagnoses over the years, so I have lost faith in psychiatry. I will not go to one unless I go armed and prepared, which I did when I went last week.
If it is actually autism, then what this may mean is that, rather than trying to change myself, I need to be more attuned to my needs and focus only on spending time in environments and around people who make me happy. This could require some drastic changes, like leaving Texas. But I want to do that anyway. Very badly.
Tyrion, you have given some pretty interesting material about your life, and I will respond when I get a chance, but for now am in a hurry, and this message is easier to answer:
Your 'kind of"
epiphany about previous relationships is just one possible explanation and probably not the best one. I know a bit about this as after I retire from my present business I was going to make a living by giving relationship workshops. Anyway, finding fault with a partner is a classic and very common distancing technique used by people (mainly men but could be women, too) who find intimacy too threatening. In the beginning of a relationship (the period of idealization) when people are on their best behavior and the attraction is new and certain intoxicating sexual hormones are being secreted (mainly dopamine), this compulsive need to distance is less likely to come up. Also, trying to mold someone to ones script does not allow for real intimacy, which is a process of being sensitive to who the other person is, discovering, appreciating, amplifying and growing into together with this person in relationship to the uniqueness of each, so a script is a cut off as it is not alive and does not allow such a process to occur.. And of course if you keep going from wrong person to wrong person and never waiting for a more suitable partner, there is less of a chance to attract the right person. You will not build up a 'magnetic field' in that direction.Or it could be that compatibility both in relationships and close friendships requires a somewhat similar brain configuration. NT's cannot be friends with anybody either. Most NT's only have a fairly narrow range of people with whom they are compatible as friends and an even narrower range of people with whom they are compatible in relationships.
It's just that most NT's have varying brain configurations that go in predictable patterns while mine deviates from all common patterns. While Asperger's is a relatively common brain configuration, it deviates drastically from most other configurations, so many aspies have trouble connecting too. My brain configuration is significantly rarer than Asperger's and deviates from other brain configurations almost as much.
If I actually have Newson Syndrome, or a Newson-Asperger's hybrid, that means that perhaps less than 5,000 people on earth share a similar brain configuration to me. Say, hypothetically, deviations from a pattern of brain configurations are measured by 1-10. Typically, a deviation of less than 2 is required to establish a meaningful relationship.
Aspies, on average, deviate 8 degrees from most NT patterns while NT patterns, on average, deviate 3 from each other. The NT nerd pattern, on average, deviates 3 from the aspie pattern. Just hypothetically, my brain deviates 4 from the aspie configuration, 6 from most NT configurations, and 3 from the borderline configuration.
Ok, this is not scientific and does not account for the fact that, in a pattern deviating 4 or less, some individuals within these two patterns of brain configuration could be less than 2 deviations apart.
How many people do you know who...?
*1. Have severe NLD and Newson Syndrome/BPD traits
2. Have Y IQ configuration and X subtest scatter
3. Have narcissistic traits making it difficult to be open about weaknesses
*4. Were homeschooled in a very religious family in a rural area with a large family
5. Grew up low income
*6. Less defined gender identity in thinking but very gender typical in appearance and most behaviors
**7. Has similar political views (far-left and anti-democratic/totalitarian Socialism)
8. lived in foreign countries
9. OCD traits
10. Recently diagnosed on the spectrum and with intense interests in autism/related subjects.
11. Decent-looking and likes physical fitness.
*Heavily weighted/intensely influential trait
** It depends. Right-wing = no-go. Other lefties can be ok, especially the tree-hugger types.
Any one of these traits can be something that makes (or, in the case of OCD and some others, breaks) a connection. How about put all 11 of them together and realize that it's incredibly rare to meet someone with even 3 of these 11 together?
To establish a meaningful relationship, I imagine someone would have to either have at least 6 of these traits or at least have 3 heavily weighted ones in order to have a brain configuration similar enough to mine for a relationship or close friendship to work.
Note, before I'm accused of being too rigid, I just made all this up on the spot to avoid having to do some work that is due tomorrow (hehe). So it's not like I go through life screening people out using ridiculous standards like these. I just developed this theory tonight to account for a life-time of past difficulties where I did not operate according to this philosophy at all.
Tyri0n
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Joined: 24 Nov 2012
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,879
Location: Douchebag Capital of the World (aka Washington D.C.)
16 Apr 2013, 10:12 pm
17 Apr 2013, 1:13 am
17 Apr 2013, 2:03 am
marshall wrote:
aghogday wrote:
Pretty good article linked below from someone on the spectrum.
Tyrion, I've come across more than a few individuals on the internet that tick all the symptoms below, and suggest they are autistic. Which is not out of the realm of possibility, as research shows Personality Disorders are very common among individuals with PDDNOS and Aspergers.
BPD, is one of the less frequent ones along with ASPD. The most common are OCD PD, Avoidant PD, Schizoid PD, Paranoid PD & Schizotypal PD.
In the research 2 Personality Disorders were assessed in 30 to 40% of individuals with PDDNOS and Asperger's, and over 60% assessed with 1 Personality Disorder.
Per this link: http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt218441.html
As far as the symptoms listed below, at least in your written communication, you are one of the last people I have ever come across on the internet suggesting there were on a spectrum that I would suspect might have BPD.
Two traits you do illustrate more than anything in this thread is that you have an extreme amount of moral conscience of what is right and what is wrong, and you care about how other people feel. That is not uncommon among people diagnosed on the spectrum. A moral code and compassion does not require good Reciprocal Communication ability.
I take things literally and I can easily imagine myself with BPD, given the word alone, as I have always used a method of mimicking as an adaptation to social interaction, that is hard and takes a great deal of conscious effort but has worked for me to get me through life.
Sexual Abuse in childhood is associated with BPD, but it is also associated with many other types of personality disorders.
I see you as a very good person. I'm quite sure most people do, otherwise, there would not be 12 pages of responses from people who care about you and want to help.
Perhaps you cannot fully see that, which is not uncommon for people on the spectrum that have difficulty seeing the perspectives of others. That doesn't mean they don't try, and that doesn't mean they don't try so hard that they end up being more compassionate than most.
The most difficult part at times, at least for me in my life, was having compassion for myself.
At least, from your writing, that is what I see in you.
I wish I could tell you something that would help. It took me a long time to find a counselor that could help me. I eventually found one, like me who had the ability for great compassion for others, who at one point had no compassion for herself, but found a way out. Since then she has been helping many others. I suppose that is what it takes for some, a special root of perspective.
I understand that may be only one small issue of your assessed problems for yourself, if at all, but it is something that can be helped no matter how difficult things might look now. CBT is a good therapy, and the main therapy recommended to me as a person that tends to over-analyze everything. That can be okay, until one's self becomes the focus of analysis.
And, as an oh by the way, I recently became acquainted with a person who is close to being on the spectrum, with a child on the spectrum, who was misdiagnosed with BPD in teenage years. She has been in clinical practice helping many people with BPD, and has come to see many of the signs of that condition from people on the internet, seemingly seeking community in identifying with what has become an acceptable label for a disorder among some to identify with.
It never fully clicked fully for me, as I was sure I was not seeing ASPD and I was pretty sure I was not seeing NPD. However, after reading the selected symptoms below that is most often what I was seeing in written communication.
I have only come across one male fully exhibiting those symptoms in written communication, which is probably because the avenues I have crossed are not popular ones among males.
http://autismsd.com/borderline-personal ... nd-autism/
Tyrion, I've come across more than a few individuals on the internet that tick all the symptoms below, and suggest they are autistic. Which is not out of the realm of possibility, as research shows Personality Disorders are very common among individuals with PDDNOS and Aspergers.
BPD, is one of the less frequent ones along with ASPD. The most common are OCD PD, Avoidant PD, Schizoid PD, Paranoid PD & Schizotypal PD.
In the research 2 Personality Disorders were assessed in 30 to 40% of individuals with PDDNOS and Asperger's, and over 60% assessed with 1 Personality Disorder.
Per this link: http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt218441.html
As far as the symptoms listed below, at least in your written communication, you are one of the last people I have ever come across on the internet suggesting there were on a spectrum that I would suspect might have BPD.
Two traits you do illustrate more than anything in this thread is that you have an extreme amount of moral conscience of what is right and what is wrong, and you care about how other people feel. That is not uncommon among people diagnosed on the spectrum. A moral code and compassion does not require good Reciprocal Communication ability.
I take things literally and I can easily imagine myself with BPD, given the word alone, as I have always used a method of mimicking as an adaptation to social interaction, that is hard and takes a great deal of conscious effort but has worked for me to get me through life.
Sexual Abuse in childhood is associated with BPD, but it is also associated with many other types of personality disorders.
I see you as a very good person. I'm quite sure most people do, otherwise, there would not be 12 pages of responses from people who care about you and want to help.
Perhaps you cannot fully see that, which is not uncommon for people on the spectrum that have difficulty seeing the perspectives of others. That doesn't mean they don't try, and that doesn't mean they don't try so hard that they end up being more compassionate than most.
The most difficult part at times, at least for me in my life, was having compassion for myself.
At least, from your writing, that is what I see in you.
I wish I could tell you something that would help. It took me a long time to find a counselor that could help me. I eventually found one, like me who had the ability for great compassion for others, who at one point had no compassion for herself, but found a way out. Since then she has been helping many others. I suppose that is what it takes for some, a special root of perspective.
I understand that may be only one small issue of your assessed problems for yourself, if at all, but it is something that can be helped no matter how difficult things might look now. CBT is a good therapy, and the main therapy recommended to me as a person that tends to over-analyze everything. That can be okay, until one's self becomes the focus of analysis.
And, as an oh by the way, I recently became acquainted with a person who is close to being on the spectrum, with a child on the spectrum, who was misdiagnosed with BPD in teenage years. She has been in clinical practice helping many people with BPD, and has come to see many of the signs of that condition from people on the internet, seemingly seeking community in identifying with what has become an acceptable label for a disorder among some to identify with.
It never fully clicked fully for me, as I was sure I was not seeing ASPD and I was pretty sure I was not seeing NPD. However, after reading the selected symptoms below that is most often what I was seeing in written communication.
I have only come across one male fully exhibiting those symptoms in written communication, which is probably because the avenues I have crossed are not popular ones among males.
http://autismsd.com/borderline-personal ... nd-autism/
Quote:
Those with BPD have several of the following characteristics:
Don’t accept responsibility for their actions and will actually accuse someone else of any wrongdoing that is their own.
Don’t remember situations the way everyone else does. They will replace negative reflexive memories with memories that make others the “evil” ones.
Claim to not remember anything at all.
Not engage in communication in an adult fashion.
Project their own faults, shortcomings, negativity, poor self esteem, and other issues onto others, including their own children.
Might be physically violent, but more often are very hostile and aggressive when cornered or called out on the rug.
In extreme cases, will play a very unpleasant and malicious “blame game” that causes extensive emotional and psychological hurt to someone one else, but then tell that person “it’s for your own good” or “it’s your fault this is happening”.
Don’t accept responsibility for their actions and will actually accuse someone else of any wrongdoing that is their own.
Don’t remember situations the way everyone else does. They will replace negative reflexive memories with memories that make others the “evil” ones.
Claim to not remember anything at all.
Not engage in communication in an adult fashion.
Project their own faults, shortcomings, negativity, poor self esteem, and other issues onto others, including their own children.
Might be physically violent, but more often are very hostile and aggressive when cornered or called out on the rug.
In extreme cases, will play a very unpleasant and malicious “blame game” that causes extensive emotional and psychological hurt to someone one else, but then tell that person “it’s for your own good” or “it’s your fault this is happening”.
So the consensus is that it's not possible for someone with BPD to self-aware at all or intelligent enough to realize they have a problem? Not even anonymously on the internet? That doesn't look like a diagnostic list but a list of nasty stereotypes. It seems like the argument is someone on the autism spectrum can't have cluster-b disorder, even a mild one, because that would tarnish all of us with the "evil" brand rather than being completely innocent misunderstood victims. I realize autistic people are sometimes misdiagnosed with BPD due to things like meltdowns and stress-induced self-harm, but that doesn't mean it's impossible for someone to actually have both. Rare does not mean impossible.
It is most definitely possible from the research I linked. Personality Disorders, in general are highly correlated with Asperger's Syndrome and PDDNOS.
While the PD's I highlighted are among the highest correlated, there was still considerable rates of BPD at 7% per Asperger's and 9% per PDDNOS.
ASPD was not assessed in any of the Asperger's Group and uncommon in the PDDNOS group among 3 indivdiuals. NPD was identified at similarly low levels in Asperger's and PDDNOS.
There is a substantial number of individuals that could be diagnosed in real life with both, but are diagnosed with only one because of some of the similarities, and depending on the assessment of the diagnosing professional in choosing a neurodevelopmental condition over a "Personality Disorder".
There is growing evidence for some personality disorders as influenced greater by genetics than thought in the past, including ASPD and BPD.
It is no secret that there seem to be some individuals on the spectrum who are extremely emotionally sensitive and others that are blunt in affect.
The new criteria likely is going to eliminate the misdiagnosis of some individuals that might have previously been diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome and more correctly, in some cases identified with BPD, per that hyper sensitive connection of social emotional reciprocity, instead of deficit that is currently not a mandatory part of a diagnosis, soon to become one in DSM5 criteria.
In the next 10 years, one may not see nearly the level of schizotypal, Paranoid Disorder or BPD, assessed in these type of studies.
But on the other hand, the association of Schizoid personality disorder and avoidant personality disorder may increase.
The symptoms above put a day to day description on the technical DSMIV classification of BPD, that is provided in the link below, but the technical description does not provide much more of a positive picture of the difficulties.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borderline ... y_disorder
17 Apr 2013, 2:44 am
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daydreamer84
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17 Apr 2013, 12:10 pm
