First time in history!! !! The NT/AS open hotline ! !! !! !

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Ohgosh. Those women look like hotel chambermaids! Yikes! Also, I'm a tall Caucasian with very long legs..... Skirts never go past the knee on me. Tiny Asian aunties with short legs, well of course it goes beyond the knee. So I'm somewhat confused.

I wonder if I could call the program director... I wonder if that is an awkward question....

You are very welcome.

It does sound difficult (with your mom.) My mom has a bit of that as well. It's possible your mom could have a touch of narcissism (co morbid?) but again, just my layperson take or honest reaction to what I've read. Or perhaps a bit of OCD personality. (That's different than OCD as you likely know, being an M.D. Sort of like Aspergers is to autism.)

As for phoning your program director, depending on their personality, it should be fine. I don't see anything inherently wrong with asking that sort of question. "What do they wear in that department?" might work, unless you get a vague answer like "the usual."

Also since you sound like you have some spending money, the better department stores usually offer a 'personal shopper' service. You go, tell them your size, your needs, and they choose things for you to try on. It's great. Make sure to tell them what sorts of clothes you dislike wearing (if any) - no need to go into the AS if you don't want, just say things like "I don't like wool, it's itchy." Or whatever like that. "I like ease and comfort in clothing," or "I like solid colors more than plaid or patterns." etc.

A good wardrobe might be three skirts, two or three pairs of slacks (trousers), a few nice T shirts (the stretchy dressier kind that can be kept in a drawer in a pinch), at least three button down blouses or shirts (sleeveless and long sleeve, some of each, up to you or your workplace) and some comfy dress shoes in basic colors (usually beige.) I'd get a pair of loafers for slacks and a pair of pumps with sturdy short heel for dresses/skirts.

Navy, beige and white are safe colors for a conservative office, but I see nothing wrong with lighter blue, or a soft yellow, or a soft green, etc. If it's hot there, darker colors absorb heat, so that could be something to keep in mind. Still the office probably has AC.

If my list was too convoluted, the personal shopper at a local nice department store could come in very handy, too. Or I'm here, if you want to ask stuff. Not knowing your personal taste in clothing I've leaned to the conservative side but there are ways to spice up even a work wardrobe with splashes of color.

ETA: here is the Pinterest page again, for look ideas. Probably want to give orange, purple and animal prints a miss, in this type of office. (Those might be OK in a graphic arts field or something.) I chose this page due to the variety of looks and it's fairly modern-looking. As for skirt length, fingertip test and you should be okay. (Unless your program director knows of cultural taboos or norms on that.) The personal shopper should be able to take your height into account as well. Better shops also offer tailoring to fit (this would include hemlines.)

clicky

Thanks again!

Spoke to the psych about it, he doesn't think she's on the spectrum, although she may have anxiety. She believes my mom's behaviour stemmed from having an aspie dad and an autistic brother and having to differentiate herself from that family. She probably has the same stress and anxiety with me as she projects their behaviour onto me. Her desire to separate herself from the "weirdos" in her family stemmed from her desire to have a normal social life in high school; in order to do so she needed to dissociate from her autistic brother. Asa result, she is hypersensitive and easily embarrassed because of the fears engendered by her upbringing of being publicly humiliated by her brother and dad, who are both far mores where than me but nonetheless similar.

That makes sense to me.

ETA to avoid a double post:

to marshall:

Yes it seems it could be, although as you noted, if one must tell the other 'the situation' often, it could come to that. The other option, sitting waiting for a response without making it blatant, falls under 'mind reading.' Catch 22 as you noted.



I hadn't even thought of that.



Thank you. That's very kind.

Popsicle and AspieMD,

I loved reading your responses. It made me think of a couple years ago, when I was first heading out west. My aunt and sister sat down at the table in the kitchen with me, and said, 'Tina, we can't go clothes shopping with you. Let us make a list together of all the various clothing types that will and won't match.' So, reading your advice, Popsicle, was like that as your suggestions seemed to closely match theirs!

AspieMD, just wanted to share that as you will then feel 'not alone' in that regard. I also had to have my aunt and sister go shoe shopping with me that day for summer shoes. I still need help with shoe shopping as my feet are size 11, practically. Though not quite a size ten.

Shoes are really important too. Not too high a heel, if you are going to be standing in them all day. Ecco does some nice, good looking yet still functional and professional shoes, and they do hold sales from time to time.

to the NT's,

How easy is it to identify an Aspie? I seem to have gotten better at eye contact, or at least looking people in the eye, but how easy is it in general to pick out an Aspie from the crowd?

k to the NTs

1. why is it people so constantly seem to go against what they seem to say they are?
like politicians who find themselves in scandals while condemning others who do the same or
people who cheat on significant others, or people who seem to be very nice and offer very nice advise
but seem to go out with the most horrible people or degrade themselves by saying horrible things about themselves?

2. why do people seem to have an extremely hard time letting go? -like funerals everyone's pretty much certain the
person's going to heaven (at my funerals) and most likely you're going there eventualy too -isn't it more like an extended
vacation but the person probably has the option to look in on you?

Objectively, I wonder how any person, NT or not, could know this?

If you have seen N people in your life and concluded that a number X of those people were Aspies, you have no way of knowing how many Aspies you did not identify in the N - X group. Nor do you know how many of that X number of your suspected positives is correct.

WIthout knowing the rate of false positives or false negatives, how can a person have any reliable estimate of their skill in identifying Aspies?

I have only known two people who revealed to me that they suspected I was an Aspie and both of them knew much more about ASDs than the typical NT because they were Aspies--but I have no way of knowing how many of the people who thought I was a bit off may have suspected... It's sort of the inverse problem and just as impossible to know.

Unless the NT already knows what Asperger's is, they won't be able to pick out the Aspie in a crowd. But they will know that "something is different" and not be able to put their finger on it. They may think the Aspie is neurotic, or rude, or "weird". (Eye contact is not the only thing that gives it away, btw--there are things like posture, tone of voice, mannerisms that are part of the whole gestalt of "something different".)

Those are good answers, I admit to my how to tell an Aspie apart question.
I also admit that I have immense difficulties sometimes with modulating my tone, particularly when I go from speaking with four year olds to talking with adults. Or I just get totally loud and stay loud throughout my whole presentation even with four year olds.

Another question: How do NTs and Aspies alike not get bothered by lowcut tops. I am afraid that I look like a perv because a female coworker wears lowcut tops and I have difficulties looking at her. It would not be so bad if she were not my assistant and we had to work together all summer long one on one, day in, day out. I try to just focus on looking at her face. But I don't want to make her uncomfortable and she is just a teen. But looking at her "that way" is at the bottom of my list. I chose her and think she would be great at working with kids. I have no ulterior interests, but I just get distracted. I think it is unprofessional but she dresses within the organizational dress code. Other staff dress similarly sometimes.

It's been said but I was going to say much the same thing, and since we're all being asked I will chime in anyway.

Most NT know nothing or very little about autism or Aspergers. So they won't be able to identify an Aspie at all.

The NT might notice the lack of eye contact or the lack of modulation in vocal tone. But they won't know what to do with that observation, so they just take it at face value. How they react to it would depend whether that behavior bothered that particular NT or not. With that there could be a wide range of responses. Most people won't be that bothered by it, especially in an acquaintance. They probably would feel most comfortable with what they are used to though, which would be the more NT-like rate of eye contact and vocal modulations.

Before I learned about the spectrum, the only thing I knew about autism was from really old documentaries or news stories on TV. Things like stimming, and mutism. I recall a film clip of a child hand flapping and spinning a shiny disc on the floor and (then the child's) watching it (the disc spin) and starting over (making it spin) again. I also recall reading about Sylvester Stallone's autistic son (who at that time was a small child) I'm not sure which son I think Seargeoh? The article or interview with Stallone, said his son (by his first wife) was non verbal and didn't like to be touched, etc.

I think information is very important, and communication between AS/NT. Things like this web site and these forums can only help everybody, in my opinion. Hopefully more communication and information can also help to prevent things like bullying, since that is usually about ignorance or fear.

In past decades, before there was even a name for Aspergers, you'd hear phrases like "absent minded professor" or "shy" or maybe "backward" - a regional word really for shy or socially inexperienced. So people would just chalk up behavior they did not understand, to personality.



Thank you so much! I am glad if they helped anyone.

You mentioned shoes: I think a two inch or shorter, sturdy (thick) heel is acceptable in place of a 'pump' which is usually a higher thinner less comfy heel.



The mystery of human behavior.

(First, to answer your first question, about hypocritical behavior, or hidden lives.) Those people could be sociopathic, which means, they are incapable of caring for other people's feelings and only think to satisfy their own urges. Those types of people will sometimes wear a 'mask' to cover up their real intentions simply so they can get away with more and get what they want more often. Very diabolical, it is hard to protect oneself from a liar.

Sometimes the 'bad' part of a person's behavior is a small part of who they are. That is called compartmentalizing. That can be a sociopathic trait as well but it can also just be a very badly adjusted person. They have not dealt with their baser urges and either have not stopped themselves from doing them or, they don't even acknowledge that bad part of themselves, to themselves. They might do with reading some Jung in regards to 'the shadow side.' That basic belief is that everyone has some negative aspects to their personality, the key is to accept them and therefore not give it more energy. (What one should do instead is) Not deny or harshly condemn the shadow urges' existence, but also not act on them! The basic thinking there is that denial of one's full self - can backfire. Those are the people who strive and strive to be perfect and then fail in a sudden and miserable way - they kept trying to deny their shadow side so much, that they put all that energy into it and fed it instead. Those are the preachers and politicians hanging out with strippers in secret.

Sometimes it's because the person doesn't really want to be married, or a preacher, or a politician, or feels they are pressured into being those things or being perfect, although who they really are IS a criminal or a promiscuous person or whatever...and so they just do both. That way they keep the family or whoever, from criticizing them. But they also get to do what they really actually wanted to do. Of course that person isn't thinking about what effect it could have on their loved ones. That type of person can sometimes resent their loved ones for 'putting them in that position.' Of course that's a handy form of blame. That person is not examining their own responsibility to live an honest life. Or the rights of others in their life to have the truth. (Or in case of cheating, the fact that it can give the other loved ones who don't know about it, a disease or even death.)

The person could also be cynical or have grown up with those types of examples to go by, and think this type of behavior is normal and okay. They might never have given the contradictions or hypocrisy a moment's thought. So they just go on living that way.

I should also add that it's possible in some cases the person is acting as they do because it would be (literally, physically) dangerous for some reason for them to express who they really are. For instance a gay person in a society in which gay people are killed, or a person who is abused and can't leave the marriage or be killed by that person, so they take comfort in an affair with who they really love and who is kind to them. Aside from physical danger, it's possible their home life is a mess but they can't leave. So it isn't always that the person who is guilty of bad behavior is totally bad. Sometimes their reality is next to impossible to live a good life, within. Sometimes.

As for the 2nd question: sometimes people who seem nice and offer good advice yet have messed up lives or hang out with mean people, really are nice and do offer good advice, if they can't seem to get a handle on their own lives, they could lack self esteem or objectivity or will power to make it so. Sometimes it is easier to see how to help others, but not have the means to help oneself. Maybe life circumstances left them trapped. Maybe they learned the hard way and are trying to stop others making those mistakes.

Also they could be the victim of an abuse cycle, or have grown up in abuse and unconsciously draw it into their own life. They may or may not be aware of the cycle. If they give good advice though they probably have thought about their life too.

The Jungian archetype for that might be the Wounded Healer.



We'll go with your example - not everyone believes in heaven, and some want to but can't, quite. But in your example the people are convinced of heaven so let's go with that one since it was your question.

By the way I do believe in heaven. Anyway...

They know they will miss the person. They are crying for the times in the future they will be without them. They feel the lack of the person missing from the world and from their life. They know there won't be any more such events - birthdays, trips, hugs, whatever it is. They also know life is different now for them. They now must live alone or they must cope without the person to comfort them, those are things to miss also. They also are reminded of their own mortality. They might cry because they think the person suffered. They might cry for the sake of the others who feel sad. That makes some people feel sad to see others sad.

Even if they do believe the person's spirit can see them or look in on them, they also know they won't know it, so they can't really have a conversation together any more or know for sure the person is there sharing their life. Now they only have the memories and the hope to see them in heaven some day. Maybe some of them worry they won't get to heaven themselves. Also they know it could be a long time until then. It is also possible some people's faith isn't strong enough to feel secure in seeing their loved one again.

Those are my thoughts on that.



Some do get bothered by low cut tops. Some are bothered by it for the same reasons you mentioned. Some workplaces forbid too low cut of a top. Your workplace must think that level of a low cut top is OK, but if she shows too much when leaning over, maybe she's a bit flouting the rules.

As to why people wear that sort of top it's usually to emphasize what they feel is a beauty asset about themselves. Or maybe they just 'thought the top was cute' - for fashion in other words. A lot of them don't put much thought into it, others might do it on purpose to emphasize their beauty.

Attractiveness can equal power in human dynamics, and that can include a workplace. So, consciously or unconsciously, the person wearing a low cut top to emphasize 'cleavage' could be trying to gain positive attention and thus maybe a promotion. (Of course all they might gain is some sexual harassment from the wrong person.)

I don't think you are harassing her whatsoever, and as far as trying to look only at her face that's what should happen so, although that makes the work day rougher for you, maybe take comfort in knowing you have not done anything amiss.

She could be trying to add to her popularity in some way. Even if she wouldn't date the men there, or can't because of work rules, she could enjoy knowing they 'want her.' (Or the other women who do so could feel that way. By that I mean, when I say 'her' I mean more the universal 'her' at your workplace - not so much this particular young lady, especially since I don't know her.) They wouldn't likely admit it and there's nothing inherently wrong in wanting to feel wanted, though I agree it's (dressing sexy at work) not very professional. But it's very typical.

That could also include popularity with other women since there is a social pecking order which factors in fashion and attractiveness in many group settings. That dynamic would include the work place most of the time. (Aside from nuns and groups like that.)

I also should add that it's possible she can't find any other types of tops, or that a high collar is uncomfortable or itchy for her. Also a larger busted woman would basically turn almost any top into a low cut top because her cleavage is pretty difficult to hide or minimize - in essence stretching the neckline somewhat to seem lower cut than it really was sewn to be.

Also as another reason some people aren't bothered by it - those could include men (or lesbians) who like to look at cleavage anyway. You did not specify 'bothered by wearing' or 'bothered by looking' so I tried to reply to both implied questions there.

Hope that helped.

i'm in the middle of trying to write a resume- #1 problem though
i can't think of anything the "Qualifing" stuff/ skills or such
apparently i usually test pretty high, but some how i have the hardest
time believing what i do i off the norm- i mean how can you not know?
most of the people i saw getting bad grades in school just didn't pay attention

Hi, I think it is great the you tell women about your Aspergers. I think the reason things become awkard for the women is they do not know enough about aspergers. I was told by an Aspie after I fell in love with him that he had Aspergers but now he has isolated himself form me. When he told me I did not think anything about it other than I asked if I could research it. He said yes. I researched it. I have been learning alot from this site and other sites. It helps to read Aspie comments. Women as NT's need a certain amount of attention and effection. If you are unable to give that to a women once you tell them you are an aspie just communicate that to them. It is better to let them know what you can give in a relationship then to not be the real person that you have become. The aspie that I was involved with tried to be the man that I wanted not the man that he had be come in life. I fell in love with because he was he was always Unique, Totally Interesting, Straight Talking, Intelligently Conversational. He tried to be this effection, charming, and attentive person when in real life he could not be like that with me all the time. I would have still loved him being the person he is instead of trying to be a man that he could not be all the time.

I believe communication is the key to a good relationship be it with family, friends, or a pesonal intimate relationship. If communication is difficult for you learn all you can to be a better communicator. If you do I think the awardness will not be there plus you will have less stess from life.

mkeogh: I did not understand your question, if there was one.

Extremely important point.

What is the point of pretending to be NT or changing your behavior to the point that when you let your 'real self' come out, you would be like a stranger to your partner. I am using the universal 'you' by the way, not speaking this at anyone particular. Just, to the topic.

If you hug, kiss, hold hands, gaze into eyes, spend quality time with, etc., during dating then won't speak or make eye contact once you two are married and/or exclusive and/or living together, she will understandably be puzzled and hurt, if not leave. So there really is no point in that deception for either of you.

But I should say that NT sometimes do that also - putting on your best face is one thing (being your best self during dating or wanting to impress them) but being a completely different person or set of behaviors is deceptive. So, don't fall into that trap, as human a trap as it may be. Again, the universal 'you' there.

NT here with NT feedback.
I'm new to forums and autism and have only ever met 1 person known to have it in my life, he had aspergers. So if I'm out of place for posting here please let me know.

The answer to your question aspieMD, I'd have to disagree with popsicle's opinion; but, It's just my opinion so just take it as such: I would expect some mothers to be embarrassed if their daughter asked this question to a salesperson. It wouldn't seem odd if they were embarrassed. That said, I don't believe it was faux-pas but it might be in singapore. I live in the US where it wouldn't be faux-pas but i'm not familiar with singapore culture. I'm sure many NTs have asked the same question to a salesperson before in the past and many more certainly will in the future.


I'll have to go back to the time I met the aspie person. I was in a college design class and the classroom was structured with about 9 large tables with 4 persons to a table. One of the persons at my table was wearing a hat which you would rarely see someone wearing in the area and during the 'icebreaking' assignment that's sometimes done on the first day of a new class, I noticed the individual with the hat seemed somewhat odd to me, but nothing out of the ordinary. I labeled him as an introvert nerd which was fine with me being seated at the same table, because my degree was computer science and most of the computer classes had many geeks and at least a few extra nerdy people that were noticeably introverted. About halfway in the semester we have project where each individual would make a poster on a topic of their choice and present to the class. This individual with the hat's topic was aspergers during which he mentioned that he had aspergers.

So, when I was a person that had no idea what autism or aspergers was, this person appeared slightly odd, enough to note; that is to say they didn't seem to have the personality that the majority does, but he didn't seem to be outside the 'norm'. And the label I initially gave him, 'introvert nerd', was quite common in a college setting.

Now that I'm aware of autism and aspergers, if I came across another individual with aspergers would I be able to identify that person as an Aspie? Or would they be indistinguishable from a introvert geek/nerd to me? I suppose I won't know until it happens.

I know my story is only of a single NT meeting a single AS, but hopefully it can at least help to answer your question.

benedict the shopping took place in America or at least, they were not in Singapore yet, as I understood it. AspieMD is shopping for a future move to Singapore. (They may have been shopping in the UK; I don't recall now offhand but I don't think that part was ever said.)

Also, in the first post it wasn't said where AspieMD was moving to for the job, only "a warm climate" - that could mean Florida, Africa, St Johns island, etc.etc. (I was the one to later try to clarify all that by asking where in general the move was to.) AspieMD's therapist seems to have agreed there was an overreaction on the mother's part, but said they thought it was because of her oversensitivity to the 'aspie in public' notion due to her relatives with Aspergers.

We can disagree I'm just surprised to be called out by name in somebody's first post.