First time in history!! !! The NT/AS open hotline ! !! !! !

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I only have time for a very quick response this morning, but I did want to quickly say that your understanding of politeness seems quite different than mine.

As I understand it, politeness is not ever sincere because it doesn't mean anything beyond signaling that you are obeying basic social rules. Please and thank you and excuse me and good bye--that sort of thing..

You can say these things to people you love or despise. They are just conventions.

Thanks for getting back to me. I am whining and feeling sorry for myself, I realize,so it's kind of you. In my world of people who sometimes depend on me to make things work, smooth things over, I long for a few like minded persons who believe what they say, and what I say, too.

As it is, people seem to me to somewhat depend on my getting things done, and it's a lot of work to find ways to do that, while also intermittently going on bouts of not taking me seiosly and making fun of me for acting or being pretend (from their perspective, for missing some to them glaring social expectation or taking language literally).

I think two kinds of politeness. Good morning, have a good weekend are just the social conventions and require not that much effort. Appropriate for anyone. I am more thinking of the people pretending politeness while making fun of me. Or parents acting as if being kind and polite to each other, and seemingly to me, too, while my children, and then I, are excluded. The saving grace is bittersweet, is that my Child with ASD has learned to pick this falseness up even when disguised, is better than I am at it.

I hired great service providers for her, and she has been wonderfully supported, and is smart and works hard. And somehow her abilities make her hard to overlook, but it still happens. As my abilities make me hard to completely discount, even while not really ever finding I'm taken seriously or accepted.

When I run into this, I have two basic responses. One is that I very bluntly call them out on it--this is if there is any potential for there being more than a remote relationship. Basically, I make a degree of basic respect the cost of a relationship with me. If that potential doesn't seem to be there, I just discard those people as anything more than background. I devalue their views and discount their actions. I only do the formal polite things with them that are absolutely required (excuse me, etc.) -- and pretty soon I mostly forget about them. I am quite good at not having any care for what rude, stupid people think of me.



I think there is only one kind of politeness--the first thing that you describe. The other thing I would think of as passive (or not so passive) aggression--that's not polite, though people may try to use good manners like camouflage to conceal their aggressive intent. I prefer to be excluded from such company. I would rather find my own people to associate with or go it alone.

I wish I could discard and disregard so easily. It's work to figure out and follow conventions, and I find trying to please others to be the cost of working at figuring them out. And paying attention to the basic expectations and then encountering that others seem not to be is unsettling.

That being said, a degree of basic respect as the cost of relating to me is a very appealing idea. And I suppose that would mean that if I miss early on that someone isn't respecting me, perhaps it is nonetheless possible, at whatever point I do see it, to respond not by agreeing that I don't deserve respect, but with active disagreement and a refusal to be part of making fun of others, same as I would do if the person being disregarded was not me. I like it, thank you, trying it out.

Not to derail this >>;;

Uhm.

From an NT point of view, how are autistics different? I can't fathom, still, that this isn't the normal way of experiencing life. I have no idea what it means to be NT öAö;;

I think I should wait and let others with more experience answer. But also think how you take the answers and what you do with them depend on your age. If you are as old as I am and not able to figure out you're being made fun of until after your teen adolescent child who has AS, that is humiliating. And major energy to figure out dealing with people is hard. But you're right, some of this is just life and we are all much more alike then different. That said, I look forward to others responses to you, it will hopefully be interesting.

Thank you for replying.

If I was ever made fun of then I didn't know it. >_____<;;

Dear Aspies:

When speaking with someone in person for the first time, are you able to easily determine if they most likely *are* an Aspie, like most NT's can? -- or would you never have a clue, unless they told you?

I think that depends on "how aspie" they are, ie. how obvious their autistic traits are. If it's someone that most NTs would identify as an aspie then an aspie probably would as well, because if anything, they're more aware of those traits (if they know about ASD, of course). But that's a largely hypothetical answer, because most NTs would not identify an aspie as such. They would identify them as "that weird guy", which leads me into...



I think the first thing to understand in answering that is that most NTs have no idea about autism. At best, they have a basic, stereotyped idea of some traits of classic (low-functioning) autism. You know, sitting alone in a corner, rocking, unable to speak - that sort of thing. Also, I think it's mostly associated with children, because autistic adults are rarely portrayed in the media.

Now, if you meant "from the point of view of an NT who knows about autism", I'd say they generally see autistics as unable to make emotional connections with other people, uninterested in socialising, overly logical and literal. Of course, it depends heavily on the specific person, but I think those are the key differences NTs can see for themselves. They probably would not be immediately aware of things like sensory issues or special interests unless the autistic reveals them in some way, like recoiling from touch or talking non-stop about one subject and nothing else.

(Yes, I realise I just answered from both the aspie and the NT side in one post, but the answers were related. )

I can't really say "how are autistics different" because there's no "one" autistic person any more than there is any one "NT" person, in my opinion.

But, I think, an NT has less need to be alone (unless very introverted) because NT are less susceptible (barring nerve damage or such) to sensory over stimulation.

NT intuitively wish to look into people's eyes and get a good feeling from doing that (or a bad feeling, depending on the person - but usually, good.) They (we, heh) seem to need eye contact, to feel secure, in fact.

NT can thrive on touch, but I've noticed, many on the spectrum dislike touch (not all) or are overly or differently stimulated by a certain type of touch, than the average NT would be.

NT often seem to have more of a pack mentality. They want to fit in. (But I think that is a human need. But being NT, I can't say for sure how it is for other than NT.)

NT have an intuitive grasp of what facial expressions mean. It seems to be learned along with language, at a very early age. There are studies even showing infants, who become distressed if their caregiver gives them a mean or angry look. Later in life, they will "interpret" as well as "use" facial expression and body language to express themselves just as fluidly as they use "language." I think, for people on the spectrum, decoding or using facial and body language is more akin to learning and using a foreign language.

NT use the social definitions of things like "lying" whereas for the most part, people on the spectrum use a more literal definition. (I could be wrong on that one, but I am going from personal observation including what some on the spectrum have said about their views on lying, in the past.) To an NT, some will lie to get ahead, and others will tell a "white lie" if they think it will help the other person (for instance) not to know their new haircut is not doing them any favors. But a lot would depend on other factors too, such as whether the NT has a personality disorder like sociopathy, on how severe that NT's lying would be. (Not all NT lie. I abhor it - but I've learned even my religion says "it is OK to lie if it is to save your life or in true self defense" which I take to mean, if a robber comes in I don't have to tell him where the weapons are! And if someone's being extremely unfair with an aim to hurt me, and a lie could get me to escape that, it's OK...but not a thing to be exploited.)

I spent a lot of time talking about lying because I've seen it come up a lot on these forums.

I have noticed those who are on the spectrum can see things clearer sometimes because emotions are not clouding the answer. They are more able to separate fact from emotion. I am not saying they don't have the same emotions (as anyone). I think all humans do. (And again I could be wrong on that; just going from observations.)

I don't notice NT talk about meltdowns but I think they (we) have our own version of that. We just call it a temper tantrum, and try to blame it on someone else.

Does that help you at all?

For Waterfalls: I would pull the people aside and tell them that Autism is not contagious and they can treat you just like everyone else.

I've done everything short of that, and it's high risk, but maybe I need to for my dignity and my sanity. So used to being told I'm not respecting others social needs and for me to adjust that it gets hard to shift and say quit taking advantage (of me). Thank you.

I have a question for NTs. When you are in a room talking to a group of people, at a party say, and there are several conversations going on at once, can you follow each individual conversation, and distinguish one conversation from another? And when you are talking, do you continue to see the other person, and what is around you at the same time? Because when I'm talking, I can only see the images in my head, and not what's around me, unless there's movement or a sudden loud noise, which distracts me, then I can't talk and lose track of what I'm saying. Does that happen to you? I can either see, or listen, or talk, but only one at one time.

You are welcome Waterfalls.

Sometimes when people keep trodding on you, you have to turn, and pull the rug out from under them. They will be stunned you did, but they will be more likely to stop.

They have no right to a social need to abuse you.

Nesf: If the room is crowded and noisy I can only follow what I can hear. I have no interest in following more than one conversation, because I would only be hearing snippets of the other ones that I can't hear all of. So those wouldn't make much sense, being incomplete.

If it's a smaller party and let's say it's a circle of people or something similar, and I can see and hear everything each person is saying, but there are two or three conversations going on at once, yes I can follow the conversations. (ETA: this is much easier if everyone is facing each other, or at least, their faces can be seen easily. Faces seem important to us NT, ever notice the way people swivel to see who's asking a question at a lecture when the audience talks?) But, I probably won't do more than occasionally interject something. Because frankly I wouldn't want to add to the chaos! I think it's more polite when people don't talk over one another or try to pre-empt the other one's conversation. (ETA I mean it can be rude when a second group changes the topic and talks over top of the first...but that's complex because sometimes it just flows that way. In which case it wouldn't be rude.)

Sometimes people just get excited or they aren't interested in the other conversations so it isn't necessarily rude - but sometimes it is (depends why, and, also how much they're drowning out what someone else was saying before they began.) I don't mean to say that more than one conversation at a party is automatically rude. (The main rudeness would mainly be to totally ignore what was said, change topic, drown out the other topic, because it would imply the person was boring. The public showing up of that person as boring is what would be rude, actually. But that wouldn't apply if it was simply a case of conversational flow.)

Sorry - back to your question...

Yes I can distinguish one conversation from the other, as long as I can hear the conversations; and if I can hear enough of each one to make sense of it and follow their thread of conversation then I can interject; but, it would be rather like juggling. I'd rather just play pitch and catch, than juggle and put that much effort in.

I don't see pictures really when I'm talking to someone. I focus on their face and body language secondary to their words. Or sometimes more so slightly, if those (non verbal cues) are more interesting.

Yes I see the other person and what is around me even if I am talking at the time.

Feel free to ask more questions if you want to. (Or others can too.)

Oh! You are saying social survival is not like a CSE meeting.

If you don't mind my asking, how do you, or others, manage to learn and follow the very specific rules for interacting with schools with reasonable effectiveness, and then not apply them in other situations?

Thank you for your detailed answer. I've never had this explained to me before, and it was very helpful. It goes a long way to explain why I can't pick up on people's moods and body language when I talk to them, because I don't actually see their faces, all I see are images in my mind which need to be translated into words, and finding the correct words can be difficult.

When you look at a person's face while talking to someone, are you actively thinking about their mood and reaction, while talking at the same time? Again, this is something I can't do, and if i do notice that someone is angry for example, then thinking about why they are angry takes up all my mind, and I'm unable to continue the conversation because it stops me from focusing on what I was saying.

Popsicle, I don't think that I ever thanked you for your answers to my questions about what to tell the college roommate; your answers were very helpful. My roommate and I still haven't gotten in touch (though I did send her a quick "Hi, I'm your roommate!" and a friend request on Facebook, to which she hasn't replied as Facebook appears to be replaced by Instragram and Twitter), but I move into the dorm in twelve days.