First time in history!! !! The NT/AS open hotline ! !! !! !

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marshall
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04 Aug 2009, 8:03 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:
marshall wrote:
mechanicalgirl39 wrote:
How to tell someone they are too in your face and are overloading/invading you/making you anxious, without being insulting??

I can't exactly say to someone, 'You're too overbearing and emotional. Can you talk with a monotone please, and stand further away?'


Ha! That's a good one. I really wish I knew. I have this problem with my own family.


Now THAT gets more difficult. If you are polite to a professional who is serving you, they will professionally yeild to your wishes. But family ... well, they may enjoy being overbearing, and then there is a valid question of whose pleasure outweighs whose. And no good way to push your preference over theirs without being rude. If you want them to understand how you prefer things, you can talk about a different situation, in generalities, and let them know that you have sensory issues with loud or animated conversation. Don't make it about them or the current situation. They'll eventually figure it out backwards, that it probably stresses you out when they do it, too.

The standing too close is easier; you discretely back away. In the NT world, people are supposed to "get" it when you do that, that they have invaded your personal space.


My issue isn't loud animated conversation. It has to do with being asked questions when I'm not in the mood. Parents often don't take "I don't feel like talking about that right now" for an answer. I suppose this is a problem for NT's as well but it's bad for me because engaging with people outside my comfort circle during the day drains all my energy. When I'm with family I'm not in the mood to be given the third degree even if questions are asked out of caring. I just don't like talking about my day. It's boring and I'm usually worn out. Yet if I say this relatives think I'm being an *ss. They don't really get it.



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04 Aug 2009, 9:52 pm

marshall wrote:
My issue isn't loud animated conversation. It has to do with being asked questions when I'm not in the mood. Parents often don't take "I don't feel like talking about that right now" for an answer. I suppose this is a problem for NT's as well but it's bad for me because engaging with people outside my comfort circle during the day drains all my energy. When I'm with family I'm not in the mood to be given the third degree even if questions are asked out of caring. I just don't like talking about my day. It's boring and I'm usually worn out. Yet if I say this relatives think I'm being an *ss. They don't really get it.


Ah, sorry for misunderstanding that. I guess I'd still suggest something similar, in that you might sometime when this isn't an issue engage in a general conversation about how you cope with things that bother you, and how you need space at those times.


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DW_a_mom
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04 Aug 2009, 9:52 pm

marshall wrote:
My issue isn't loud animated conversation. It has to do with being asked questions when I'm not in the mood. Parents often don't take "I don't feel like talking about that right now" for an answer. I suppose this is a problem for NT's as well but it's bad for me because engaging with people outside my comfort circle during the day drains all my energy. When I'm with family I'm not in the mood to be given the third degree even if questions are asked out of caring. I just don't like talking about my day. It's boring and I'm usually worn out. Yet if I say this relatives think I'm being an *ss. They don't really get it.


Ah, sorry for misunderstanding that. I guess I'd still suggest something similar, in that you might sometime when this isn't an issue engage in a general conversation about how you cope with things that bother you, and how you need space at those times.


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DW_a_mom
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04 Aug 2009, 9:53 pm

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DW, actually it's not a love story, I believe he had come that day to dump me and it was a golden opportunity for him that he didn't get to see me and saved himself having to tell me to my face, plus he could get away with blaming it all on me - a perfect bargain. This is why all I did when I saw him 20 years later was look at him as he was scum in my view. He's not guilty of my AS and he's not guilty of my having been brought up to be ashamed of my AS and feel it's my fault. But he's guilty of exploiting the situation in his favor - nasty him.


Now it all adds up :)


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tru7hless
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05 Aug 2009, 11:25 am

A question for the NT's, how do you feel about love? As somebody who is AS I know I can love..but sometimes I think its a very different sort of love..if that makes sense..and it has really logical reasons behind it...anyway yeah..I'd love to hear an opion from both aspies and NT's on this one..


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willmark
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05 Aug 2009, 12:59 pm

tru7hless wrote:
A question for the NT's, how do you feel about love? As somebody who is AS I know I can love..but sometimes I think its a very different sort of love..if that makes sense..and it has really logical reasons behind it...anyway yeah..I'd love to hear an opion from both aspies and NT's on this one..

Of course on the NT spectrum there are many types of people who may experience many types of love. I guess you are talking about romantic love, but they you mention a very different sort of love. I don't have much to go on here.

I thought I would mention a different kind of love that I experience. I often feel a person's vibe if they are alive, when I read their written words, or see their photograph, or when I spend time around them, and something that I think might be odd about me is that I automatically feel great love for a person when I feel their vibe. This love is an almost unconditional, non romantic kind of love that makes me want to do or give what I can to benefit them, regardless of whether my action is of benefit to me. Evidently this is something that is very rare, or else I just haven't managed to find more than one other person who is willing to admit, "Yes I experience this too."

Could I get you to elaborate a bit on what your different kind of love is like?



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05 Aug 2009, 12:59 pm

I've find falling in love - real, live long, with my soulmate love - to be a very peaceful, natural process. Quite unlike dating. Dating often involved excessive lust, insecurity, and need. Being with my husband (who is AS) was different from the start. Problems between us just never felt like problems. Its not to say we haven't had to work hard on certain things over the years - two people can't meld their lives without a lot of crap springing up - but to contrast how different it was from that rush of feeling one reads about in romance novels.

When you look at it that way, I don't see why falling in love would be much different for someone who is AS. You meet someone and just know it clicks. All feels right in the world. That seems like such a human instinct to me, not AS or NT.

But I do think that maybe AS are less likely to seek a relationship simply because society tells them they should. I fell to that sort of pressure for many, many years. And the funny is, that is exactly when you have about no hope of making it work. One has to be very comfortable with themselves to really be ready to share.


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willmark
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06 Aug 2009, 7:44 am

I have a question for AS folks.

I am curious whether autistic people experience "Projection". For those unfamiliar with the term, this is a subconscious response where one feels an emotion that they would probably feel if they were in an observed person's experience. The call it projection because the person is projecting his own feelings upon another person. It appears to be rather common among NTs who are INFP, but that group certainly doesn't have a corner on it.

I remember experiencing this when I was preschooler. I hated receiving gifts, Christmas presents, birthday presents, etc. that I did not like or want, because I would feel embarrassed for the giver of the gift. And I felt this embarrassment so intensely that my face would blush beet red, and I wanted to hide under the couch until the feeling passed.

When I was in college as a music major, the performance majors were required to give so many recitals per semester, and all music majors were required to attend all but so many per semester. And when a performer made performance errors, like forgetting words, or playing wrong notes that made my skin crawl, I would feel deeply embarrassed for them, and at the time I really would have loved to have been able to crawl under my seat until the performer ended his performance. After some self analysis, I realized that this embarrassed feeling was associated with my own low self esteem; that what was really happening was that I assumed that if I were in their place I would perform just as poorly and so I was associating myself with him and thus I was feeling embarrassed for me because I assumed I was like him. The performer, and the gift giver, were probably not at all embarrassed, though the performer might have been a little. But those were my feelings, my responses; nothing to do with them. After I worked through my low self esteem issues, most of my problems with feeling embarrassed for being like poor performers and the like, pretty much disappeared from my experiences.

Now, after reading posts by people who were not aware until an older age that there were folks around them who experience emotion, I wonder if projection is something many or most Aspies and Auties get to avoid. Do AS folks experience Projection?



Greentea
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06 Aug 2009, 1:28 pm

In Spanish it's called, informally, "to experience another's embarrassment". It can be a very strong feeling. I know that it's very powerful in me.


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willmark
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06 Aug 2009, 2:23 pm

Greentea wrote:
In Spanish it's called, informally, "to experience another's embarrassment". It can be a very strong feeling. I know that it's very powerful in me.

I've noticed you experience your emotions intensely anyway.



Last edited by willmark on 06 Aug 2009, 2:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

marshall
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06 Aug 2009, 2:23 pm

willmark wrote:
I have a question for AS folks.

I am curious whether autistic people experience "Projection". For those unfamiliar with the term, this is a subconscious response where one feels an emotion that they would probably feel if they were in an observed person's experience. The call it projection because the person is projecting his own feelings upon another person. It appears to be rather common among NTs who are INFP, but that group certainly doesn't have a corner on it.

I remember experiencing this when I was preschooler. I hated receiving gifts, Christmas presents, birthday presents, etc. that I did not like or want, because I would feel embarrassed for the giver of the gift. And I felt this embarrassment so intensely that my face would blush beet red, and I wanted to hide under the couch until the feeling passed.

When I was in college as a music major, the performance majors were required to give so many recitals per semester, and all music majors were required to attend all but so many per semester. And when a performer made performance errors, like forgetting words, or playing wrong notes that made my skin crawl, I would feel deeply embarrassed for them, and at the time I really would have loved to have been able to crawl under my seat until the performer ended his performance. After some self analysis, I realized that this embarrassed feeling was associated with my own low self esteem; that what was really happening was that I assumed that if I were in their place I would perform just as poorly and so I was associating myself with him and thus I was feeling embarrassed for me because I assumed I was like him. The performer, and the gift giver, were probably not at all embarrassed, though the performer might have been a little. But those were my feelings, my responses; nothing to do with them. After I worked through my low self esteem issues, most of my problems with feeling embarrassed for being like poor performers and the like, pretty much disappeared from my experiences.

Now, after reading posts by people who were not aware until an older age that there were folks around them who experience emotion, I wonder if projection is something many or most Aspies and Auties get to avoid. Do AS folks experience Projection?


I do experience this to some degree. I usually think of it as the tight rope effect, i.e. when I watch someone walking across a tight rope I get nervous and when they temporarily lose their balance it might feel like my heart skips a beat. That's usually the first thing that comes to mind when I think of the phenomena you're describing. Also, when I witness someone that I have no ill will towards being yelled at or harshly criticized it can feel like it's me being attacked. I had this problem pretty bad when I was very young.

I also have a slightly different effect where I feel like I'm absorbing anxiety/tension from other people. It's almost debilitating thing for me. I seem to be too sensitive to nonverbal tension signals and the more anxious I am the more I start noticing other people having nervous mannerisms or having an anxious tone/cadence to their voice. There's an effect where noticing things that I interpret as anxiety in others multiplies my own anxiety. You'd think would be the opposite for someone on the autism spectrum so I think it's more an effect of me having high anxiety and a heightened fight/flight response than autism. If you ever watch a startled group of deer you can see the same phenomena where if one deer sees you and raises it's tail all the rest of the group instantly becomes more alert to their surroundings. People with PTSD probably have this issue too.



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06 Aug 2009, 2:47 pm

marshall wrote:
Also, when I witness someone that I have no ill will towards being yelled at or harshly criticized it can feel like it's me being attacked. I had this problem pretty bad when I was very young.

Me too; and also when I was young, watching someone else getting bullied impacted me as if they had done it to me.



Pook
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06 Aug 2009, 11:04 pm

Great Idea :D

Looking for NT's as I have always been clueless with these...

1. Why do NTs seem uncertain of Aspies that have poor eyecontact and may or may not appear nervous?

I am someone that as I've aged my eyecontact has worsened and is pathetic with anyone in authority.

2. Why do some friends not call or think up activities and I feel I'm the one that has to make out the agenda and set a time?

I've had friends in the past that they showed every sign of liking me as a person, but rarely called me and invited me to go out to eat ect.

3. How do NTs make negative statements about someone that is suppossed to be a friend and then that very NT turns around and acts like you are the best friend ever? I have walked up on conversations where I've heard "she's xxx or that is just the way she is" and so on and the talk ceased when I walked up to the group. Many NTs do not realise how that hurts as most aspies have keen eyesight and good hearing among the five senses. I tend to be a very loyal and accepting this and this has always puzzled me.

4. Why in work situations don't those in positions of authority let the worker know what is not a desirable behavior if it is something that should be addressed?
It has taken me years and being married to find out I ask too many questions. I try to be aware now of what I am asking and is it necessary and so forth. But for pete's sake if someone would've stepped up and told me I had this symptom of OCD it sure would've made life a little easier for me at work and with friends.

I appologize for these questions being so fragmented, but I have been analyzing them for much of my life and have not been successful at coming to some reasonable conclusions. Also I have told an Aspie friend of mine who is a therapist that sometimes I feel as if I am on that fine line between NT and Aspie. A no man's place if you will....I don't feel fully NT as I have differing anxiety disorder symptoms and learning issues and I don't feel totally Aspie as I enjoy a good joke, am usually able to read body language or don't have alot of difficulty in making conversation*just the presentation mind you* I don't know where I fit???



Last edited by Pook on 07 Aug 2009, 7:47 am, edited 2 times in total.

Greentea
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07 Aug 2009, 2:09 am

They're all excellent questions, actually! Thank you for posting them!

Only, we have to be a bit patient with the answers, because our wonderful Golden NT Volunteers are doing their very, very best to answer ASAP as questions are posted, but they're obviously a minority here, so it may take a bit of time.


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07 Aug 2009, 9:31 am

Pook wrote:
Great Idea :D

Looking for NT's as I have always been clueless with these...

Quote:
1. Why do NTs seem uncertain of Aspies that have poor eyecontact and may or may not appear nervous?

I am someone that as I've aged my eyecontact has worsened and is pathetic with anyone in authority.


In the NT world, the non-verbal message of poor eye contact is "I am nervous" or worse yet "I am lying" (the term "shifty eyed refers to this). I've seen some threads where other people came up with workarounds for this, a quick glance at the nose or something similar. Do a search on "eye contact" for good workarounds.

Quote:
2. Why do some friends not call or think up activities and I feel I'm the one that has to make out the agenda and set a time?


Precedent. You do it a few times and it becomes your "job". This happens routinely in NT friendships too. Usually one person in the group or pair is the one with the ideas and people fall into a rut of having the person always do it. Try to get out of this rut by pressing other people for where they would like to go. "It seems like I'm always picking what we do. What do YOU want to do?"

I've had friends in the past that they showed every sign of liking me as a person, but rarely called me and invited me to go out to eat ect.

Quote:
3. How do NTs make negative statements about someone that is suppossed to be a friend and then that very NT turns around and acts like you are the best friend ever? I have walked up on conversations where I've heard "she's xxx or that is just the way she is" and so on and the talk ceased when I walked up to the group. Many NTs do not realise how that hurts as most aspies have keen eyesight and good hearing among the five senses. I tend to be a very loyal and accepting this and this has always puzzled me.


This is an ugly trait called by some sociologists "bonding by exclusion". The people bond with each other by gossiping about somebody who isn't there. Aspies don't do this and good on ya'. It's not an admirable thing.

Quote:
4. Why in work situations don't those in positions of authority let the worker know what is not a desirable behavior if it is something that should be addressed?
It has taken me years and being married to find out I ask too many questions. I try to be aware now of what I am asking and is it necessary and so forth. But for pete's sake if someone would've stepped up and told me I had this symptom of OCD it sure would've made life a little easier for me at work and with friends.


A lot of immediate supervisors will (one level above you, but no more than one). The catch is, they say it in a way that I now realize is too vague for Aspies. They will drop hints and use "work-ese" phrases that come from "How to Manage" books. Instead of saying "You ask too many questions. Look up possible answers in the manual before asking" they will say, "I am glad you are being so proactive regarding information but perhaps you could dial it down and only be proactive when you are truly unsure". You will leave the office wondering what all THAT was about and continue to ask too many questions. Coworkers are a better source of direct feedback.



Pook
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07 Aug 2009, 11:14 am

Thank you. Thank you Janissy as now I see what made no sense to me before :idea: Bing. The lightbulb is now on bright :)