wp getting annoying

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Joined: 7 Dec 2010
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11 Mar 2014, 3:24 pm

wozeree wrote:

I totally get the cartoon. But you are saying exactly what I am saying. Some people (not limited to WP) are inclined toward manipulation exclusively as a means of communication, they seem fundamentally unable to communicate any other way. If you recognize that in a person, if you know they are putting out dog whistles entirely to provoke mayhem and you give them that mayhem that they crave - you lose, they win. I'm sort of figuring this out myself really.

So you are saying that they're trolling? Because I am basically terrible at identifying trolling for the sake of reactions.

The problem with one particular person is the tendency to sugarcoat everything and lavish backhanded compliments so it looks nice on the surface, and thus it is easier to get away with more longer before moderators can reasonably take action.

Wouldn't be surprised if all of this was someone's attention seeking psychodrama, though.

Verdandi
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11 Mar 2014, 3:33 pm

kicker wrote:

Here is what to look for from someone who is a manipulative person.

1. They get you to think that you are wrong or fear that you have made a mistake in your judgement, by pointing to a ton of facts that have nothing to do with the conversation. (IE Conversation is about a specific topic, but they point to things outside that narrow topic for their argument. Person A: I really like dogs. Manipulative person: "Cats are better, here is ten thousand reasons why.......")

This list is an interesting example of your point 1 here. If I recall correctly, you called me delusional for offering factual information about what privilege is. Your list does not seem relevant to manipulative behavior and more targeting a specific exchange we had in which you failed utterly to make any point other than you get angry at the sight of such discussions. So you want me to think that I am wrong or fear that I have made a mistake in my judgment, hence this list.

That it is a complete mischaracterization of our previous exchange is kind of inconvenient, don't you think? You should have that "self-serving bias" checked out.

Edited to clarify: The entirety of kicker's interactions with me have been to mock me, belittle me, call me "delusional," and misrepresent my arguments.

Last edited by Verdandi on 11 Mar 2014, 3:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

wozeree
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11 Mar 2014, 3:36 pm

Verdandi wrote:

wozeree wrote:

I don't know if you've ever heard me go on about the woman I sit next to at work (I try not to discuss her because I get ranty on the topic, but here I go). She is EXTREMELY religious (not in the good way). Always all about being a Christan and her love for her fellow man and how she takes care of everyone and no kindness is too small. Well, she has this nasty little habit of going to our bosses and chatting them up and in her concern for us because she loves us so much, lets little things slip out that gets us in trouble. It's a true genius because her coworkers hate her but the bosses all believe she's a saint so they of course never stop to wonder why the sweetie is causing so much conflict. It's bizarre, but I am almost in awe of her skill sometimes. She's that good. Why it gives her pleasure, who can say, just her pathology.

kicker
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11 Mar 2014, 3:40 pm

Verdandi wrote:

kicker wrote:

I am glad you can recognize your own behavior. Now do something about it rather than blaming me for picking on you especially when the above is a description of aggressive manipulative behavior from a text book not from my dealing with you. I just don't care that much about you, sorry to spoil your neurosis.

Verdandi
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11 Mar 2014, 3:51 pm

kicker wrote:

It's not my behavior. However, in my previous interactions with you, you have outright attacked me, including at least one thread in which I had not yet even participated. Since we have yet to have even one non-confrontational interaction in which you do not choose to attack my credibility and myself as a person, why should this be any different?

Another element was that the words in the part I actually quoted mirrored things that were actually said to me in response to my posts about privilege. That despite the fact that all the facts were related (that is, establishing what privilege is in a variety of contexts as part of the argument that neurotypical privilege exists) I was told these facts were not related, or that things could be twisted to mean anything - such as "not owning a private jet privilege."

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11 Mar 2014, 3:55 pm

wozeree wrote:

I haven't heard of her, no. Sounds like a stressful person to be around.

vickygleitz
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11 Mar 2014, 3:59 pm

suggesting to name ten thousand reasons why cats are better than dogs? Sounds more like playful fun than manipulation to me. As one of those annoying etroverted autistics, I love when there's a little playful fun here.

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11 Mar 2014, 4:01 pm

vickygleitz wrote:

That would be a more productive discussion, at least.

kicker
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11 Mar 2014, 4:08 pm

Verdandi wrote:

kicker wrote:

So if I am reading this correctly, you are admitting that you are attacking me for talking about you WITHOUT ME talking about you? Since it's not your behavior and I didn't address you in my response it must be an attack on you for previous interactions? Really? Yet I am the one twisting the facts. OH OK. WOW.

Ann2011
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11 Mar 2014, 4:19 pm

kicker wrote:

Here is what to look for from someone who is a manipulative person.

1. They get you to think that you are wrong or fear that you have made a mistake in your judgement

4. Deny that they did anything wrong. (IE it's racism, classism, etc)

6. Makes others feel guilty or ashamed for expressing themselves.

7. Uses emotional stories that fit the situation so that you feel compassion towards them.

9. Uses a persons words in a way that is inconsistent with the conversation or what was said.

I am recovering from a relationship like this with my boss (one more week to go

) She has the above characteristics from your list.

I should have gotten away sooner. Life is too short.

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kicker
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11 Mar 2014, 4:30 pm

Ann2011 wrote:

kicker wrote:

I am recovering from a relationship like this with my boss (one more week to go

) She has the above characteristics from your list.

I should have gotten away sooner. Life is too short.

It's unfortunate, but some bosses are very good manipulators not to say ALL bosses are manipulators, just some. Hopefully the next one will be better for you.

btbnnyr
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11 Mar 2014, 4:35 pm

What if other people say that your behaviors/intentions are manipulative based on similar criteria for manipulation? Would you say that you are also being manipulative, or would you say that they misinterpreted you?

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kicker
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11 Mar 2014, 4:41 pm

btbnnyr wrote:

Depends on which perspective you are referring to. If the person who is telling you this is the one you recognize as being the manipulator then I wouldn't put much credit towards it. It would fall under the number 6 category. If the person is not being manipulating in their behavior or responses then it's time to look at your own behavior to see what they are seeing.

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11 Mar 2014, 4:45 pm

btbnnyr wrote:

It depends on the person and what they're saying.

btbnnyr
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11 Mar 2014, 4:46 pm

kicker wrote:

btbnnyr wrote:

What if both participants in an interaction think that the other is being manipulative? What if I think someone else fits the manipulator criteria that you posted, but that person thinks that I fit the criteria? Are they both being manipulative?

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11 Mar 2014, 4:55 pm

btbnnyr wrote:

That's a good question.

I usually perception check with people I trust, or in some cases stop and ask the person who said I was doing something. In those situations, though, I think a certain level of benefit of the doubt is necessary. I wouldn't bother to consult someone who likes to use the word "delusional" to describe someone who disagrees with him, because clearly this person has a volatile approach to disagreement.

I don't want to call people manipulative just for the sake of doing it. There's basically three people I can think of who are or were on Wrong Planet whom I would actually say were manipulative without any doubts. Others who might be, or might not be, and I am less willing to say either way. Also, I think other people have had different experiences and may perceive others as manipulative with good reason whom I do not perceive in that way. There are people I dislike whom I do not think are manipulative, we just don't get along. There are people I disagree with strongly, but don't have any particular dislike for.

To answer the question:

One of the two might be manipulative and twisting the assertion of manipulation back on the other person or simply using the accusation to provoke a sense of confusion/fear/uncertainty about one's self.

Both of them might be manipulative, and in this case it may even be that neither of them did anything to prompt the accusation. Seems unlikely.

Neither might be manipulative, but just be really emotional about the other.

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