28% of murderers thought to have suffered from ASD

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FranzOren
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27 Sep 2020, 9:28 pm

Thank you!

I understand.



Joe90
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28 Sep 2020, 6:53 am

Good, I'm glad we have settled on the fact that we are all potential mass shooters. It has really made my day.
Now, where did I leave my gun so I can shoot a class of 6-year-olds in the primary school across the road?


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FranzOren
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28 Sep 2020, 10:18 am

This is just ridiculous.

I pointed out that people like us are more likely to be victims of crimes than commit them.



Joe90
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28 Sep 2020, 12:04 pm

FranzOren wrote:
This is just ridiculous.

I pointed out that people like us are more likely to be victims of crimes than commit them.


Yes, that is true. I mean, I often hear of autistic children and adults being horribly abused for no reason, usually by NTs.


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kraftiekortie
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29 Sep 2020, 8:40 am

Adam Lanza had much more wrong with him than simply having Asperger's Syndrome.



BenReillyUK
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29 Sep 2020, 8:41 am

Frankly I don't care if I'm more predisposed to murder someone.
Doesn't bother me.
Whatever.



kraftiekortie
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29 Sep 2020, 8:43 am

Just the mere fact of being autistic does not predipose someone to murder. Anybody who says otherwise has a screw loose somewhere.



Teach51
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29 Sep 2020, 8:43 am

Joe90 wrote:
Good, I'm glad we have settled on the fact that we are all potential mass shooters. It has really made my day.
Now, where did I leave my gun so I can shoot a class of 6-year-olds in the primary school across the road?


Gosh Joe, I don't think this is true more than anyone else. There is no shortage of NT nutters.


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kraftiekortie
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29 Sep 2020, 8:49 am

I feel like Joe was being facetious.....



Teach51
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29 Sep 2020, 9:12 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I feel like Joe was being facetious.....


I think so too but I didn't want her to worry :)


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JP210168
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29 Sep 2020, 2:41 pm

Studies like this - if you want to even call them studies - never tell the whole story. Had they had the time to profile each and every person (which they didn't, surprising) they'd factor in other variables like personality, family history, mental health, etc. A solid correlation between murder and ASD? Never a shortage of stupidity in this day and age.

Years old, yeah, but it's tabloid garbage without enough hard data. Put a sock in it I say.



Jiheisho
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29 Sep 2020, 2:56 pm

JP210168 wrote:
Studies like this - if you want to even call them studies - never tell the whole story. Had they had the time to profile each and every person (which they didn't, surprising) they'd factor in other variables like personality, family history, mental health, etc. A solid correlation between murder and ASD? Never a shortage of stupidity in this day and age.

Years old, yeah, but it's tabloid garbage without enough hard data. Put a sock in it I say.


Here is the study: Neurodevelopmental and psychosocial risk factors in serial killers and mass murderers

Would this conversation would go a bit better if people read the study? :lol: :heart:

What this study does not say is 28% of autistics commit murder or even 28% of murderers have ASD.



AspiePrincess611
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29 Sep 2020, 3:14 pm

tall-p wrote:
Recipe for a serial killer? Childhood abuse, autism and head injuries are more common in murderers, study claims

Well, I've got all three. 8O I've never (badly) physically hurt anyone (intentionally) and would have to be pushed really far before I would. I have briefly thought about murdering some people who have done bad things to me, but I don't want to go to jail and I might have felt bad about it later (might). I wouldn't want it to impact my family either. I do have a bad temper and will "blow up" at people (verbally) if I feel disrespected. I don't have much patience with people and often come across as "flippant". I am extremely compassionate towards animals and some people but feel no empathy at all for some other people. Some people have called me "cold" or "callous", as well as "selfish". In certain circumstances, that is true. If I'm in the mood, though, I can also be generous and caring.
I'm a Gemini too, so my personality can change by the minute :lol:


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Joe90
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29 Sep 2020, 5:39 pm

Teach51 wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
I feel like Joe was being facetious.....


I think so too but I didn't want her to worry :)


I was being sarcastic more like.

Sorry, often all this talk about serial killers and autism just freaks me out and I've always struggled to accept my diagnosis anyway so hearing about autism being linked to such awful capabilities just makes me start to believe that I am some sort of heartless psychopath even though I am not.

I know what the public is like with this sort of thing:


Snow being forecasted in Scotland?
The rest of the UK thinks that the whole country is going to get snow.

Some local lockdowns?
The rest of the UK thinks that the whole country is in lockdown (hence the panic buying of toilet paper starting all back up again).

A school shooter and a serial killer both have autism?
The rest of the world thinks that everyone with autism are capable of murder.


It also disturbs me that both Adam Lanza and James Fairweather were both autistic.
James Fairweather, a serial killer in Essex (stalked and murdered 2 random people in 2014), was actually completely emotionless in court and was even grinning, then when the court person told him what he'd done he responded, "I don't give a f**k."
I just don't want this to give all autistics a bad name that we are capable of being psychopaths with 0 empathy and are pure evil. It just really freaks me out and gives me even more reason to hate my diagnosis and be closeted about it.

I even decline all support because I just don't want my diagnosis to be known by others. Since I've moved out of my parents house I have more or less swept my autism under the carpet so that nobody knows. Just because of the negative stereotypes.


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FranzOren
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29 Sep 2020, 8:54 pm

I mean, we are living beings.

Every living being is capable of doing anything, including committing crimes.

Just because I have Learning Disorder, Autism and history of psychological issues, does not mean that I am not capable of being a criminal, especially because I am high-functioning, but if I still had severe symptoms of ASD ( that I used to have), that would be a different story.


The government also states that people like me are much more likely to commit crimes than people with severe to profound forms of developmental disorder.


Here is the quote and the links from the government's medical studies.


Quote from NIH


Quote:
The prevalence and pattern of criminal behaviour in a population of 313 former child psychiatric in-patients with pervasive developmental disorders were studied. The patients were divided into three subgroups and compared with 933 matched controls from the general population. Age at follow-up was between 25 years and 59 years. An account of convictions in the nationwide Danish Register of Criminality was used as a measure of criminal behaviour. Among 113 cases with childhood autism, .9% had been convicted. In atypical autism (n=86) and Asperger's syndrome (n=114) the percentages were 8.1% and 18.4%, respectively. The corresponding rate of convictions in the comparison groups was 18.9%, 14.7%, and 19.6% respectively. Particular attention is given to arson in Asperger's syndrome (p= .0009).



Here is the link related to this quote ( https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17615427/ )


Quote:
Reports describing high rates of neuropsychiatric abnormalities among death row inmates, forensic psychiatric inpatients and others with a history of violence have led in the past to assertions that evidence of brain-behavioural impairment may mitigate or excuse criminal behaviour.142–145 It has been argued that there is an episodic dyscontrol syndrome related to minimal brain dysfunction and complex partial seizures146 and that violently recidivistic criminals are men who are likely to have abnormal brain biology.147 Neuroimaging studies suggest that the brain areas associated with violent and impulsive acts are located in the prefrontal cortex and medial temporal regions.148 However, although a higher level of brain abnormalities tends to be found in individuals who are violent, particularly those who are repetitively violent, there is no established cause of association between brain pathology and violent behaviour.

An alternative approach is to consider violence as one form of antisocial behaviour that may be understood as a disorder having neurodevelopmental origins that, alongside autism, hyperactivity and dyslexia, shows strong male preponderance, early childhood onset, subsequent persistence and low prevalence in the population. These features were described by Moffitt142 in early-onset, persistent antisocial behaviour. Moffitt85 later argued that one form of antisocial behaviour, the early-onset persistent type, is a neurodevelopmental disorder. The other form of antisocial behaviour, afflicting females as well as males, is common and emerges in the context of social relationships.

Chapter 4 examined the strong association between violence and individuals with ASPD, who fulfil many of the criteria of Moffitt’s141 early-onset persistent subtype (see Study 1). In this chapter we examine associations between violence and childhood neurodevelopmental disorders and proxy measures of neurodevelopmental disorders at the population level among adults. When investigating intelligence, it could be rightly argued that this is not an accurate measure of neuropsychological development as much as educational and social functioning and at a highly complex level. However, taking a simplistic view, a high score for intelligence can be considered to reflect a high level of functioning and might therefore be presumed to have a negative association with neuropsychological deficits that might lead to violent behaviour at the population level.

Childhood neurodevelopmental disorders have been studied in relation to violent criminality using population-based registers of child and adolescent mental health services in Stockholm, Sweden.149 No association with violent crime could be observed for autistic spectrum disorders (ASDs), although ADHD showed an elevated risk of committing a violent crime.



But wait.. isn't ADHD a developmental disorder from DSM-5?

https://www.psychiatry.org/File%20Libra ... ntents.pdf

But most people, not even people with ASD want's developmental disorders to be associated with committing crimes.

I bet if I was a criminal, like if I did something that would put me to prison just right aweay, most of you guys would say the same thing about me.

Like for example " Franz does not have ASD, there is no link between ASD and crime", "Franz never had ASD, he was over-diagnosed or misdiagnosed with ASD but had something else, like psychopathy all a long", or " Franz had something else going on than ASD" without even getting to know me first and even without looking at my medical records fist, before coming to conclusions that I don't have ASD, just because I was simply a criminal and it does not matter what crime I committed, because people with ASD would not want to be in their community, they do not want me to be assisted with them, or invite me to their communities, because of what I have done.

I have lots of IEP and medical reports that is stating that I have Learning Disorders, lower IQ than average, PDD-NOS, history of psychological issues, but then my diagnosis changed from PDD-NOS to Autistic Disorder and then I was considered to have ASD stating from 2013.

But wait... But then you guys say that ASD is under-diagnosed, especially in females.

And second of all, ASD does not shield you from being a psychopath, in fact, you are more prone to all mental disorders, if you have ASD.

it is possible to be a psychopath with ASD.


Here is the link related to this quote (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK396481/)

Quote:

Another quote from NIH

Background: Although expert opinion has asserted that there is an increased risk of violence in individuals with schizophrenia and other psychoses, there is substantial heterogeneity between studies reporting risk of violence, and uncertainty over the causes of this heterogeneity. We undertook a systematic review of studies that report on associations between violence and schizophrenia and other psychoses. In addition, we conducted a systematic review of investigations that reported on risk of homicide in individuals with schizophrenia and other psychoses.

Methods and findings: Bibliographic databases and reference lists were searched from 1970 to February 2009 for studies that reported on risks of interpersonal violence and/or violent criminality in individuals with schizophrenia and other psychoses compared with general population samples. These data were meta-analysed and odds ratios (ORs) were pooled using random-effects models. Ten demographic and clinical variables were extracted from each study to test for any observed heterogeneity in the risk estimates. We identified 20 individual studies reporting data from 18,423 individuals with schizophrenia and other psychoses. In men, ORs for the comparison of violence in those with schizophrenia and other psychoses with those without mental disorders varied from 1 to 7 with substantial heterogeneity (I(2) = 86%). In women, ORs ranged from 4 to 29 with substantial heterogeneity (I(2) = 85%). The effect of comorbid substance abuse was marked with the random-effects ORs of 2.1 (95% confidence interval [CI] 1.7-2.7) without comorbidity, and an OR of 8.9 (95% CI 5.4-14.7) with comorbidity (p<0.001 on metaregression). Risk estimates of violence in individuals with substance abuse (but without psychosis) were similar to those in individuals with psychosis with substance abuse comorbidity, and higher than all studies with psychosis irrespective of comorbidity. Choice of outcome measure, whether the sample was diagnosed with schizophrenia or with nonschizophrenic psychoses, study location, or study period were not significantly associated with risk estimates on subgroup or metaregression analysis. Further research is necessary to establish whether longitudinal designs were associated with lower risk estimates. The risk for homicide was increased in individuals with psychosis (with and without comorbid substance abuse) compared with general population controls (random-effects OR = 19.5, 95% CI 14.7-25.8).

Conclusions: Schizophrenia and other psychoses are associated with violence and violent offending, particularly homicide. However, most of the excess risk appears to be mediated by substance abuse comorbidity. The risk in these patients with comorbidity is similar to that for substance abuse without psychosis. Public health strategies for violence reduction could consider focusing on the primary and secondary prevention of substance abuse. Please see later in the article for Editors' Summary.



But wait...

Some people consider Schizophrenia as a developmental disorder as well.

Here is the site related to this quote (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19668362/)


I mean, psychopathy can be a developmental disorder, if it started from early childhood.



Last edited by FranzOren on 29 Sep 2020, 9:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

FranzOren
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29 Sep 2020, 9:08 pm

You guys are just closed minded.


I can be a psychopath or be a criminal, even though I have ASD.


You guys don't want your feelings hurt.


Should we suggest that only good guys have health issues?

I really don't get it.



I confess that I committed cyber-crimes for the past five years, broke my brother's best friend's window and sometimes, but in rare occasion, I would be aggressive against my brother and my mother ( But I would rather not tell you how very bad it was) .

( even though I don't have a criminal record yet)


I am now afraid that I would not be welcomed here anymore.