Critical of self diagnosis - you shouldn't be

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That is how it makes me feel when I read that my self-diagnosis is not valid. Self-suspecting, identifying with other poster's experiences, online tests, reading, reading, reading, and a whole lifetime of experiences just aren't valid.

But but I think I am one of you? "Oh sure you are one of us... you just aren't valid?" Un-officially I'm one of you. (There's a good chance that he isn't though.)

I pretty much stopped posting stories from my life a long time ago, because I felt that the invalidators here would interpret my successes or failures as proof of the invalidity of my place at the table. And just sharing my feelings now is very emotional and humiliating for me.

Most people take things personally when they feel invalidated. It doesn't matter if you direct it at them or not. Personally I am against the general idea of self-diagnosis but I do understand that some individuals can self-diagnose correctly and at times that may be necessary.

I can use this analogy to describe my stance:

There is a handgun on a table and two people around it, one whom is a high-ranking soldier and the other a person that you know nothing about. Who would you be most likely to trust with the gun? The answer is obviously the high-ranking soldier, which is equivalent to a medical professional. Unbeknownst to you, the random person may have experience handling guns themselves, but that is irrelevant considering most do not. The individual is not the subject, but the group (general idea).


I find debates akin to this thread very hypocritical because the same things that people dislike having said about themselves are occasionally said about another group (usually NTs, as that is an easy target) by the same people. Of course, nobody realizes this when they aren't the one taking it personally.

If this website is truly to be accepting of everybody then I find it deplorable how rarely individuals have recognized this phenomena and prevented negative NT discussion (in particular) in the past - because of this it would seem the idea that 'this website is a support website' comes after the fact, and is not the reason for people wishing to end conflict. The ending of conflict is desired because of personal pain, nothing else, which makes sense, because of human nature; any suggestion is layering on top of the real issue.

Can anyone relate to my understanding here or not? So far nobody has agreed/disagreed with me.


EDIT - I see two choices. One being that the idea of a 'support website' comes to fruition, where all discussion is positive and any heated discussion has its own specific sub-forum that individuals can choose to enter, and the other, where everybody has freedom of speech and can mention whatever they like, whereby individuals that take offense are entirely responsible for the inferences they have made concerning others' posts - very much how it is now.

Last edited by Norny on 30 Nov 2014, 7:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

You can have your feelings, but it is wrong to push the responsibility to me for your feelings from yourself making certain inferences from what people didn't say or mean as you said just now, then telling me that I should not say certain things from which you might make negative inferences, but that others might not or even find useful.

Norny, I posted recently but I'm not sure in which thread that people have such problems with others criticizing the behavior of self-diagnosis, but they seem to have no problems with themselves or others criticizing the behaviors of NTs or NTs as a group or individuals.

I have stood up for NTs a few times. *cough*olympiadis >_>*cough* (I wonder where he's got to lately...)

Personally I agree with you. I don't see the merit in stereotyping or feeling superior to 99% of the human race. Despite what's occasionally been implied, I don't feel superior to anybody here or that my autism is "better" than theirs: mostly I'm just bewildered I seem to be so at odds with them. It feels like I can't connect with them and they can't connect with me.

So, basically like being in the NT world. At least I'm used to it. #philosophical

Tall-P, here are some studies, articles and references about the unreliability of diagnosis, missed diagnosis et al that have been (and will be) largely ignored by the people who are dismissive of the "self-diagnosed". I hope you gain something positive from them. The book in particular may be of use to you.


Book: "Very Late Diagnosis of Asperger Syndrome" Author: Philip Wylie 2014
He also cites Michael Fitzgerald: most adults with AS are misdiagnosed with schizophrenia

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/787526.stm (article about one man's terrible misdiagnosis experience)

Misdiagnosis and Missed Diagnosis of AS, a study showing that subjects with ASD were misdiagnosed as having only ADHD - Brunett and Williams, 2005

Attwood, T. 1999 on missed diagnosis: male to female ratio should be 4:1, it is only 10:1 so a lot of females are in the missed diagnosis group

Hoover, D. Doctors Often Misdiagnose Aspergers (study)

"Confusion and Inconsistency in Diagnosis of Aspergers Syndrome, A Review" Sharma S, Woolfsoon LM, Hunter SC 2012

PS and this one I posted much earlier in this thread: http://abnormaldiversity.blogspot.co.nz ... nosis.html

Last edited by B19 on 30 Nov 2014, 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I would agree with this. Taking responsibility for one's own feelings should occur first when the content of your post is not directly attacking their being.

I have taken things personally in the past but I am now far less likely to, unless it is directed towards me specifically. That is a personal improvement I have made this year.



That is my largest gripe here. It is very hypocritical. When phrases such as 'it's a support site' are thrown around, they come after the fact, not the real issue that is the egocentric nature of all humans. To claim anything but personal offense is a fabricated idea, which is sophistry.



Olympiadis indirectly helped me to stop taking things personally. While I did and still do disagree with some of what he posted (i.e. a use of terms like psychopath), I let him brook the responsibility for an excess of my own personal offense (similar to what I see in this thread).

There hasn't been so many attacks on NTs lately, but misinformation/generalization has continued to spread.

He also cites Michael Fitzgerald: most adults with AS are misdiagnosed with schizophrenia

This seems very unlikely, since the symptoms of AS and schizophrenia only marginally overlap. There are rarely delusions, hallucinations or psychosis in AS.

I didn't check the BBC article, because I'm tired and one anecdote is simply not going to persuade me. I can find probably hundreds of anecdotes of GPs fobbing off patients with IBS, when it turned out to be IBD or colon cancer all along.

You haven't hyperlinked any of the other references, so I can't check them. But again, initial misdiagnosis is very common. To minimise the chance of a misdiagnosis, I cannot stress often enough to find a clinic which specialises in autism assessments: if you just go to your GP, counsellor, or whatever, you're a sitting duck for being fobbed off: harsh but true.

One more thing: knowledege and awareness of ASD is increasing and will continue to increase. When I was a child, I would have stood almost no chance of getting a diagnosis of autism, because it was so little known about, especially in girls. Thirty five years on, I got one relatively easily.

[opinion=mine]

Within the title of this thread is the implied directive, "Don't criticize self-diagnosis". Unless Alex Plank makes such a directive part of WrongPlanet's rules of conduct, I refuse to follow it.

But if Alex Plank does make such a rule, it would be a special case of the more general hypothetical rule "Don't criticize the opinions of others", which would then defeat the purpose of public discourse in general, and the "Philosophy, Politics & Religion" forum, specifically.

[/opinion]

I don't think anyone is trying to push responsibility on to you for how they feel. I for one am not doing that. I'm just informing you of how I feel. It's entirely up to you what you decide to do having that information. No one is censoring you or stopping you from saying what you want. But when the site admin takes time to comment and remind you that this is a support site, it's something to think about.

I have said things that other people took offense to (not just here but in life in general) and similar to you I felt that I did not say anything wrong, and perhaps someone inferred something that I did not intend. It happens to everyone.

I don't recognize any special authority of the site admin, as they eggspressed their opinion, and I eggspress my opinion, and there is no rule prohibiting discussion of self-diagnosis on wp. If they want to make it a rule, they can.

Good to know!



I don't think anyone wants to prohibit discussion of self-diagnosis here, and I'm not sure why you keep interpreting it that way.

You mean, Alex Plank? The man who owns this website?

Doesn't his ownership of this website confer any authority to him over the posting policies of this website?

Or do you simply not recognize authority in general?

As a poster, I don't recognize any special authority with exception of admin powers, and he has not administered any rules regarding this website's status as a support site in this thread, only expressed his opinion, which is of equal value to all others' opinions here.

I assume that is what btbnnyr means.

If criticizing self-diagnosis is prohibited (in appropriate manner), so should criticizing everything else. If that is not the case then I would leave this forum because it would be like a dictatorship.

It's not just a matter of authority. I don't know how this site is funded, and wouldn't ask because it's none of my business, so I hope it's clear I'm not asking for any kind of disclosure of that. But I am guessing Alex has put some personal expense into running it. If not monetary expense then surely a lot of personal time and effort. I don't take that for granted.

It's his site. So yeah I think his opinion does matter more than others, not in the broad sense of having greater value or validity, but in the same way a person's opinion matters when you are a guest on their property.

I don't believe in censorship except of personal attacks, hate speech, phishing, and someone stalking someone else within the Site.

I follow his forum rules, but I don't recognize his opinions as more important than other opinions.