Do you think that virginia Tech killer Cho Seu was an Aspie?

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Zeno, maybe I'm seeing something that others don't see, or maybe I'm all wet, but that article seems to be a little bit slanted towards asking for control of people who are bullied to make sure that they don't go off and shoot someone.

Apparently he had previously been diagnosed with a depressive disorder, and he's obviously experienced some kind of trauma that had a strongly negative impact on his outlook and perception. As I said in an earlier post, psychopathy doesn't fit all that well (he has the callousness/lack of empathy, grandiose sense of self-worth, failure to accept responsibility for own actions, possibly poor behavioral controls). His being a loner, though, and having flat affect indicate schizoid personality disorder. His preoccupation with previous wrongs against him and notion of the whole world essentially being against him along with the need to vindicate suggest paranoid personality disorder, a particularly severe form at that, (not necessairly a full blown delusional disorder or paranoid schizophrenia). His strong desire to vindicate himself through overwhelming force and a desire to control and set the moral tone for others in spite of their beliefs and opinions indicate sadistic personality disorder.

Theodore Millon considers the combination of sadistic and paranoid personality disorders to be one of the most dangerous combinations of personality disorders (source). The standard-issue psychopath is quite dangerous but generally is not the type to make national and international headlines for days. The typical psychopath's criminal career is more likely to be a string of thefts and robberies, an opportunistic mugging here and there, bilking a few grannies out of their life savings, starting new businesses and then bailing on the investors, leeching off girlfriends and family, going in and out of jail, and generally thinking their life is swell in spite of it all. (and f*** it, any trouble that comes their way is anyone's fault but theirs; they might say, "I wouldn't have hit her if she just did what I said"). Yeah, and some of them realize they are what others would call evil and revel in it; they think their way of living is superior to obeying laws, morality, and basic human compassion, which they think is for "suckers."

I thought that was natural until I read some of the things said by parents (not all) on some of the autism groups. However as far as culturally - lots of different cultures (not just Koreans) feel very careful about saying anything disrespectful about family members for different reasons. In Roy Grinker's book Unstrange Minds apparently it mentions how in Korea some still try and hide autism in the family. I haven't read the book (just reviews and commentaries) but part of it is how autism is seen in different cultures and disputes the idea of an epidemic.

The mention of autism has been removed from this CNN article--someone on another thread in here pointed it out. Here's the link:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/19/vtech. ... index.html

Also note that what his aunt said was translated into English, which means that what she said could have been mistranslated as autism. Could he have been diagnosed with something else which has a Korean name similar to the Korean name for autism?

Meh. I don't think it applies in this family. This morning I read on CNN that his great aunt was calling him an "idiot" for what he did. I just tried to find that article, and I couldn't. I'll post the link if I can ever find it - it's sort of hard to find anything on CNN once the story is archived.

OK, walkintherain was posting the article I was referring to at about the same time I was writing my post... Here's what his great aunt said - and she didn't mince words:

I can find 67,300 hits for autism in Korean.

http://www.google.com/search?lr=lang_ko ... 8&oe=UTF-8

So with that in mind I doubt it was something that could easily be mistranslation. Seems
more likely his Great Aunt did infact mean autism but who knows if it is a correct diagnosis.

Actually, even the NEW guidelines do say speaking words by 2.

Since when do you need to talk to defend yourself, but not talking would be "clinically significant". And a LOT of people are bullied.

So he had a speech impediment. BIG DEAL! So if his tounge is cut he suddenly gets AS? HECK, I bet most AS or HFA autistics don't have speech impediments.

The sleep might have been mentioned because it bothered HIM. AGAIN, LOTS of possible reasons. HECK, he might even have been taking cocaine. CHO seemed crazy, and was in a sanitarium etc....

Actually, there are a number of reasons for the lack of eye contact. Who knows? If he was always into drugs, maybe he avoided peoples eyes so they wouldn't know.

Yeah, he didn't seem to care about people at all. Why would he respond? ALSO, most of this was about his not answering the stupid "how are you" type queries. Interestingly, for most of the 80s/90s, people never seemed to wait for an answer from me! In FACT, if you don't respond to me, and listen, you will here "THAT BAD, HUH?" What that APPEARS to mean is "Oh, you won't even answer, so you must REALLY be doing bad!". What I REALLY mean is that I determined you must not have been listening afterall. FEW ever respond to that. SO, he might have gotten tired of that garbage, or they might have simply not listened.

The bullets could have simply come from a holder like that. HECK, it could have been a stock photo!

For the photos, it was mentioned a lot that he might have been copying other photos, etc... HECK, in one photo he was holding a hammer at the same angle as another, as I recall. He was holding it with two hands, but otherwise the same.

A LOT of people at play, and acting do that.

The fact is that these don't mean he is autistic, and certainly not that he has AS. Some said he was simply a psychopath. As for me?

I DON'T have a speech impediment. I currently give a half hearted response to "code"(I never used to respond to that). I MIGHT modulate my voice more. Otherwise, you COULD describe me as you did him. I just don't like the idea of people saying he and I are in the same group. Frankly, I wouldn't want to kill any GOOD people, and wouldn't see the point of leaving a cryptic manifesto, etc... HECK, if he just wanted to get the manifest published, etc... He could have picked the UNIBOMBER model!

The idea of them all mentioning the eyes DOES kind of scare me. For some reason, some people stare at me a lot, and I subconciously don't seem to want to look straight on into their eyes. That means that I don't generally look into their eyes.

Stinkypuppy,

He shouldn't have been in college because he was dangerous, etc.... You think the average Aspie is a propagandist, and wants to be famous at all costs? Heck, only like 2 people here called attention to it, and they were pretty sane types of celebrity.

As for the copying, Ironically, I used to always want my OWN stuff. Today, and for a LONG time, you can see I do copy/borrow. Still, a LOT of people do that. I didn't say that to dispute that he was AS because of copying, but to dispute the idea that he did any part of it so well, etc... because he was AS.

Steve

You know, I have had a lot of problems through my life because I will mention something about me and people will misunderstand(seemingly on purpose), expound on it, and BLOW IT OUT OF PROPORTION. The LAST thing I need is for others to do it or make it worse. You guys started out hoping he wouldn't be identified as Austistic, and now YOU are.

Two things going against correct diagnosis...

1) Culture - he may have been less communicative and less likely to make eye contact at the time of diagnosis due to cultural and language barriers.

2) Age - autism seems to be the diagnosis of default for kids with any mental problem that can't be correctly diagnosed.

I agree TM1 - very easy to misdiagnose him as autistic. That is the most likely reason he was diagnosed.

To be honest, this guy clearly had something else.

Sorry to bring this up... What about Freund's celebrity?

Here is the link to the video interview of Cho's great-aunt (Kim Yang-Soon) talking about the possibility that he might have been autistic as a child; from Reuters News.

Link: Cho's great aunt interviewed

I copied down what she said, though a translator.

Last edited by Diamonddavej on 19 Apr 2007, 10:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.

The grandfather apparently also mentioned some things as well like that - but at this point it may be because the world knows of his actions. Afterall even some officials in Korea have apologized and these comments are from his relatives over there.

If he was autistic then there should be some indication from medical or school records over here. If there is a connection then the general populace with be nervous. At least the mention of autism was removed from the CNN article.

I believe that your quote of Kim Sang-Yu (Cho’s great aunt) was distorted from its original translation that I just posted. Have a look at her talking in her video.

Link: Cho's great aunt interviewed

Most people with antisocial personality disorder are not especially charismatic, nor are they psychopathic. They generally just have very poor impulse control and feel like they deserve what they want without working for it. Only about one in five people diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder also meet the diagnostic threshold for psychopathy.

Also, just because a person has done or orchestrated evil things does not mean he or she is a psychopath. Saddam Hussein, for example, was in all likelihood psychopathic (and sadistic). Adolf Hitler's personality was more or less sadistic with some other features mixed (narcissistic personality traits might account for his showmanship and charisma). On the Internet, just about every description of the psychopath describes him or her as confident and charismatic, but of course, their verbal facility is still tied to intelligence. A psychopath of middling intelligence may say a lot (much of it not true and much of it bull), but his communication style will probably give away that he's a BSer. A more intelligent psychopath may be able to acquire the eloquence necessary to persuade the masses or a boardroom. However, these more intelligent and more socially adept psychopaths are not as common as the one who schemes well beyond his or her means. Remember that psychopaths make up 1% of the North American population, and people with antisocial personality disorder make up 3-4%.

Here is another article about Cho as a child.

Link: Guardian News Paper Article

Cho was almost mute till the age of 8 years old. Cho’s mother was very religious and prayed for her son to speak, rather the take him to a psychologist.