Emotion Management - Info from Attwood conference

Post Reply New Topic

"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me!"

Z

That line and the Cassandra Syndrome links are the only referances I found to adults in his entire body of work.

I find this strategy not helpful. Perhaps he has said something else, but this is what is floating around on the web.

As far as I can tell Cassandra Syndrome came fron one woman bashing her ex, justifying her behavior. She wrote a book about him, and said Aspie, but Software Engineer would be closer to the truth. It is known that rational minded men are no fun for fantasy living little girls playing woman.

"He never once came home by Firetruck and dressed if full fire fighting gear chopped down the front door and came and put out my fire, after hours of struggle." He never covered the floor and bed in rose pettles. The more I shopped to make myself beautiful and desirable, the longer hours he worked to pay the bills. What about my needs?

So what was an excuse for one woman taking her boring husband of faithful years, good income, for eveything he was worth, then going public with an. "I hate you and everyone should," book, have snuck in and become accepted Medical Fact.

As krex points out, relationship problems are now part of the Dx.

I do think the woman who wrote the cheap little paperback was a relationship problem, a self centered littl girl on a rant. Perhaps it gained Scientific credibility on Oprah, is now repeted on Attwood, and taken as fact by krex's therapist.

I would add it to the thread, Autism Myths.

If the man cannot do news fact checking, why should his Science be believed?

CBT was not invented by Attwood, It was not developed for children, but for depressed NT adults.

If he is accepting it like that woman's tell all book, it needs to be questioned.

If he is going to be an important source for truths about Autism, and lacks critical thinking, he can do damage that will last generations.

As for his stratgeies, he is an NT Psych Major. That covers a lot of ground, most of which I cannot relate to.

I am a Specialist, I only study adult Autism issues from the inside. I have a greater depth of knowledge about the childhood phase, was schooled in it for almost two decades. Tony Attwood has never lived a single day as an Autistic child or adult.

Everything he "Knows" is applied Psychobabble.

I see a Pop Psyc Professor saying what will get him on talk TV.

He is not our Professor X helping Mutants gain control of their Super Powers.

He seems a Curbie in that he wants to make children controllable, and ignore adults, other than a few nasty comments, and those second hand.

Starting from the basic facts, Autism is a lifetime condition without treatment or cure.

Like other humans we have to develop skills in our childhood that help us in our adult lives.

Learning to please Fourth Grade teachers is not a viable life skill. The only way it could be seen as such is if the person is seen as a ret*d, and should go through life being childlike, and easiley controlled by anyone who is their NT superior.

So we are still at, everything you think is wrong.

Attwood's method seems one size fits all. His view of Autism is the same weather the person has an IQ of 70, or 170. He is NT, so sees our intelligence as a testing glitch. NT is a one track Ego driven mind. Autistic and it stops, and cannot accept that the person can have an IQ 50% higher than theirs.

He only gets paid for the Disablity Model of Autism. That is a small minority of all of us.

Yes, there are disabled Autistics. And at the other end of the Spectrum, and just as Autistic, are some of the best minds on the planet. One size does not fit all. Attwood does not make money off that end, and his comments reflect his personal point of view.

It is NT to seek one answer, and Atwood's answer is wrong for most of us.

Age alone has shown a better outcome than all treatment methods combined.

So does any treatment work, other than making money off the tards, or is all improvment just a factor of age, and treatment accually ret*ds growth and development?

The way I was treated in childhood set back my adult development by decades, is a commonly expressed thing here.

In raising children, adult outcome is everything, the only benchmark to judge by.

Many of us who were judged hopeless ret*ds as children went on to reach high positions.

Adults are ingnored for we do speak of treatment and outcome over the last fifty years.

It is not adult Autistics they wish to ignore, but their own past. It is a history of failure, except they made money at it.

Nothing has changed with NT's. A new crop is back looking for another bite at the apple.

They will play God like Psychs, and we wil be cast as hopeless ret*ds.

Money is alloted for us, and they want it. Tony Attwood's goal is the same as Autism Speaks, NT's should dominate the debate, and take all the money.

I have been conned, defrauded, lied to, and about, I know the symtoms well, that is what I see.

Only by self defining and questioning everything will we reach our rightful place in life.

"The pump don't work cause the vandels took the handle."

Who here owns and actually has read one of Attwood's books? When I first learned about AS someone loaned me a copy of Asperger's Syndrome: A Guide for Parents and Professionals and it seemed to me to be a reasonable overview. That was three years ago and I haven't reread it, so maybe my opinion of the details would be different now, but at least I can speak from having read one of his books.

Z

When I was first learning about AS, I read several books by "experts", one of them was Atwoods..The only thing I can recall from them is that , like most psych and self help books, they could have fit all the relevant informatin into a few pages and saved me several hours or reading "fluff". I have learned more about AS from being on WP and reading several blogs and watching a few utube videos by autistics/AS . The main difference between the two is that the first is like learning about a beetle by looking at a picture of one and seeing how many legs they have, etc. The AS information is like disecting the beetle and examining ii beneath a microscope at the power of (some scientificy sound number ) then watching how it interacts with it's environment and how that environment alters its behavior . To take the bug out of it's environment...would be like some one saying...that spider must be OCD and have an inner ear infection because it keeps going in circles making "odd" patterns.

Natives, A guide for Colonial Administrators and Missionaries

I do not care to live my life, and have the world's view of me, be from an outsider's view.

I have learned a lot on Wrong Planet, and "Pissup in a brewery", is the only Attwood quote I recall.

Temple Gradin gets quoted a lot.

The latest,Myths About Autism for NT's follows a long line of NT myths, which has caused us to be used as lab rats.

When the entire focus is on disabled children, and the rest is ignored, there is a reason.

Autism Speaks does it, the Mercury Mafia, and Tony Attwood.

None of them wants to deal with the numbers, the ones that say they are looking at the 5% they can make money off of.

It is not Science to ignore 95% of the data.

They study the worst examples, and project that NT Fact on to all of us.

My view is if you want to understand the defects, study the working models.

We had the same problems, more or less, and found a workaround.

Equal in other ways, we do show a differance in reported childhood conditions.

Zonder and I see the same glass, to him it is half full.

My world is based on absolutes. A 99% correct Math Problem, Machine Design, Software, is Wrong.

We call it Science.

Psychobble is a Religion. It is also an ever changing fad.

It is feeding off of the children, and avoiding the concept they will grow into adults.

The Attwood model seems to be treating defective children till they can be moved to long term defective care. 95% of us will never see assisted living, yet we are defined the exact same way.

Autism is not just a Medical Disability, I will not deny that does exist, yet most are only hindered by something they know, I am different, and seek to explain. "Well that explains my life", is common here.

When 19 out of 20 fit the Hindered Model, and nothing is done for them, not education, or self help guides, I see the effort being directed toward NT's making money.

Only Alex Plank, Founder of Wrong Planet, has shed light on thousands of lives, showing we are not just strange people, but a group with common strangeness.

Support Wrong Planet Awareness, click on the above link and keep the good work going!

Some do post here from the nut house, some from assisted living, some from their parents basement.

Most are working, paying rent or home owners, have family, got an education, and suffer the same problems as NT's in this world.

Besides the problems of being Autistic Adults, humans getting by the best they can, they have groups who ignore reality, go past three stray dogs, to kick an Autistic Personality.

So my issue is not Disibility, but an Adult Autistic Personallity Type, the most common outcome of all.

Not being disabled we should not be identified and judged by those standards. Or called frauds.

Adult Autistic Personality Type is the most common form of Autism by far, 95%, higher if you count Half-Aspies who only reach two of three criteria.

Now I will go back to drawing on the wall with feces.

Your basement or mine? I was thinking of doing the same after I finish mowing the lawn.



Z

edit: grammar

Last edited by Zonder on 01 Jun 2008, 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I wish I could say you were nuts. Too many seem to think that you pay for volume and volume determines its worth. "scientology" has a LOT of odd words/meanings because its creator, sci-fi author L ron hubbard, was paid BY THE WORD!

What ever happened to Shakespeare's famous quote "Brevity Is The Soul Of Wit"?



I see what you are trying to say, but feel it is more like the NTs watching the beetle and coming up with generalities and dumb observations, and attributing all to INSTINCT. And the other is more like actually seeing the beetle yourself and communicating with it, and maybe even finding it LEARNED some things.

I've read that book and have a similar opinion to yourself Zonder.In fact I found
it more than a reasonable overview but
that's maybe because I was still in the
process of having my eyes opened.

Attwood may have made tongue-in-cheek remarks about us but he actually makes as many self-deprecating remarks about NTs,like
"Why don't they say what they mean?"
"Why do they care about social hierarchies
instead of treating everyone the same?"

He concludes the book by stating that those
with Asperger's "are a bright thread in the
tapestry of life.Our civilisation would be
extremely dull and sterile if we did not have
and treasure people with Asperger's Syndrome"
That doesn't come across to me as someone
who is a curebie or being patronising,but
someone who has been interacting with
Aspies,children and adults,for over 30 years.
I'd never claim he was correct in everything
he says,but the guy deserves a break !

Thanks for the quotes, Pluto. I had forgotten the tone of the book, but I remembered it as being positive. I've read so much in the past three years, much of it abstracts of scientific studies, that I can't remember specifics unless I have my own copy.

I think you just gave Attwood a break!

Z

I haven't meet Tony Attwood in person yet. But I own and have read his 'Asperger's Syndrome: A Guide for Parents and Professionals' and his more recent book 'The Complete Guide to Asperger's Syndrome'. I found them interesting. His website is informative with links to many other websites that I find helpful. He strikes me as a person who genuinely cares about the work he does with autistic people, in particular those with AS. I give him the benefit of the doubt, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, that he is sincere. Maybe I won't like him, if and when I meet him in person, but I respect the work he has done regardless. I don't think he's in it for the money.

Like Inventor, my childhood was plenty bad. I too was royally scapegoated. Now I know why. It wasn't because I was bad but because I was different. I look around. Humans all over the world discriminate against those who are different. OK. Not alone. We have our minds. We can think clearly, logically with effort. Life is complex. Always changing. You never have it all worked out because when you think you do, it changes on you. It's like a chess game to me. The position is unique. General rules are somewhat helpful. But nothing beats a concrete analysis of the position on the board. With the clock running. Make your move. What will you do? Study the situation. Come prepared. I don't have an extraordinary IQ, ordinary really. I just work hard at what I do and I found a niche that fits me right. Took a long time though...

CBT, other forms of psychotherapy, medication, meditation, religion, philosophy, exercise, try them all - with your eyes wide open, thinking for yourself all the while. Is there any substitute to thinking for yourself?

From what I gather, Tony Attwood and others help a lot of us. CBT has helped a lot of people. And some it doesn't help. Is there any subsitute for independent thinking? I don't think so. Some find medication helpful. I do. The question was raised - why do doctors recommend medications so quickly? Probably because they tend to work for a lot of people and work relatively quickly if they do. Without them I would have been toast.

I think there's a lot that parents and teachers can do to help a child with AS, from the perspective of love for the child in the best interest of the child. Goodness we've come an awful long way toward an understanding of child development. I was raised in the 1950's.

This isn't about the 'Red States' and the 'Blue States'. We're autistic. We thinking differently and a lot of us have sensory issues that make it darn tough getting through the day in society. I wish my nervous system were not so darn sensitive and particular but I live with it. And we miss a lot of nonverbal communication signals that others take for granted. No blame there. Just the way it is. We can learn to pick up on some of the signals we're missing so we can join in, as best we can. No one tries to change me. I won't let them. But I feel it is my duty to participate in the society I live in. I pay my taxes. I serve on juries. I do civic work and support charities I believe in. I'm thankful for people like Tony Attwood who have put themselves out there to describe people like us, strengths and weaknesses too.

My childhood was crap but kids have it better now, so much more is know about the condition and by golly there is a lot of love in this world despite the fog of greed and hate around us.

According to Karl Popper people that rationalize away criticisms of a theory, especially if the rationalization is based on the theory itself (like Marxists dismissing critics as "capitalist sheep" and Freudians dismissing critics as simply expressing repressed neuroses), is a very common way the supporters of a theory protect it from falsification and thus make it unscientific.

Hello Odin:

Maybe I'm trying to straddle a fence too much to try to reconcile that therapies work for some but not for others in what is a polarizing topic. I don't believe that I "rationalized away criticisms of a theory," and I'm not sure how what I said was using CBT to make a rationalization, other than there have been comments on both sides that give me reason to be cautious, but not dismissive of CBT. I am in full agreement that CBT does not work for everyone. The question is, "Does it work for some but what are the drawbacks?"

I have not stated that those for whom CBT doesn't work are irrational, nor did I intend to imply irrationality in the words that I chose. If I implied, through using the word "hate" that those who criticize CBT are irrational, I apologize and retract the word. I believe that my following post helped to clarify what I intended.

Z

For those interested...

I found this an interesting interview with Attwood....


http://www.abc.net.au/queensland/conver ... queensland



I think one of the reason that many with AS like Tony Atwood is that "compared" to groups like Autism Speaks...he seems like a saint...a matter of relativity. It doesn't mean that we should avoid using critical and logical thinking in questioning some of his theories. To not "allow" dissension is like Americans who thought I was unpatriotic because I was against the invasion of Iraq.

Yes, Krex, that interview comes across as tainted with stereotyping and condescension. Strange that the reporter seemed to be fishing for an ASD diagnosis for him.

Z

Long thread.

I was introduced to CBT and Beck's book in university, and to me it was two things.
1. It's a common sense way of dealing with small stuff. I figured out or picked up a lot of it growing up. But I think you need to be in the driver's seat for it to be safe.
2. I found people pushed it on me a lot with the assumption that if I had problems, I didn't know this stuff. But I already knew that CBT is no substitute for the police, a good lawyer, a human rights tribunal etc., when you're really a victim. So at the same time as I saw it as common sense for small stuff, I also saw it as a way of invalidating my experiences (because of how people used it).

I might also mention that sometimes the assumption that life isn't working because you're not trying hard enough/thinking the right way can be the assumption that needs challenging. It has been a real struggle for me to realize that I am disabled and need accomodation at work and in life. I'm beginning to realize I may need to add BlackBerry to the list after lawyer (I can't afford either, unfortunately). CBT thinking took me in the wrong direction on that one.

As far as Attwood goes, I respect that he's trying to teach kids common sense tools that may help them cope better, but I have had a look at his website and the articles there and my impression is that he is primarily concerned with kids in school. Kids in school need support, but what happens when they leave? I did fine in school, then fell flat on my face when I left and had to navigate in the real world. CBT didn't help me then. I really wish researchers would study adults before recommending treatments for children. Some stuff we can figure out for ourselves, other stuff we need help with. Do they even know which is which?

I found a very good description/explanation yesterday of what I have been trying to say in my posts on this thread:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mindfulnes ... ve_Therapy

CBT's "focus" on "changing negative content" is what I find deeply problematic/unsound, and have been trying to warn people of on this thread. Am very glad to see that a recognised alternative to it now exists.