The Pro-Cure Thread

Post Reply New Topic

ret*d means lagging behind the general population. People on the spectrum are late bloomers. Many so called ret*d aspies turn out surpassing their peers later in life. Autism is not a stagnant disorder. Some low functioning autistics turn into savants late in life. However, a person shouldn't be defined by his/her intelligence, job, or status in life.

Don't have kids if you are afraid of them being autistic. Being a parent requires a person to be loving and understanding.
If you want to have a golden child, please get yourself sterilized. That will guarantee you will never have a "ret*d" kid.

Life is full of uncertainties. What if you had your golden child and he/she got into a terrible accident and cost you money or disrupted your life then? We need to start respecting everyone, including those who struggle with mental disorders.

Warsie wrote:

actually Austism or AS does absolutely nothing to the 'mind' since it is a series of neurological changes in the structure of the brain and portions of the nervous system. Even those who are what is called 'low-functioning' autistics have 'minds' every bit as capable as the next person.

I would like to say something in reply to the commnets of ThisIsNotMyRealName. I am always worried about statistics, many of them will fall down when they are subject to close examination.

Another weakness is that we do not know what proportion of auties and aspies are spotted, we might have many who slip by without being spotted. How do you know what number of classic HF autists and aspies are going about their business in the world without any awareness that they are not NT ?

If a large number of such people exist then it will foul up the statistics which you cite, please also could you give a reference to the statistics.

_________________
Health is a state of physical, mental and social wellbeing and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity I am not a jigsaw, I am a free man !

Diagnosed under the DSM5 rules with autism spectrum disorder, under DSM4 psychologist said would have been AS (299.80) but I suspect that I am somewhere between 299.80 and 299.00 (Autism) under DSM4.

The word “cure” here is ambiguous. It’s not clear what exactly’s being cured here and why/what purpose.

I think that a lot of people’s so called AS “symptoms” would become less severe if they could work and live in stable environments where there were fewer social stressors (less crowding/lower population density) and fewer social expectations. Perhaps these people would thrive in places where there are clear rules and expectations as to how one should behave. Also a place with a genuine ethos that promoted honesty plus strong leadership and support networks would help everyone. Also plenty of personal private space to work and live.

If people could be allowed to be creative and work in these environments and not be forced into socialising until they’re ready/given appropriate support, these people’s productivity would “sky-rocket”.

I’m starting to suspect that AS traits, in mild doses, are possibly responsible for human activities requiring individuality such as: inventiveness, honesty, improvisational performance arts (scat singing, instrumental solos, busking, freestyle dancing), the visual arts, computer programming, mechanical engineering, poetry, scientific experimentation, lecturing, storytelling…

In fact anything that requires independent focussed thinking, attention to detail and systemisation with little social reciprocation. Take away these activities by removing the genes responsible and there wouldn’t be much of human civilisation left.

Perhaps social animals such as humans thrive on genetic diversity. We were tribal originally, so perhaps having solitary, sensitive individuals on the periphery of the group scanning and exploring the physical environment may have aided the tribe’s survival. I think that removing the genes responsible would eliminate a substantial chunk of the population including some individuals doing very important technical work. That’s why I don’t think that removing the genes outright would be feasible or helpful.

Perhaps so-called "mental disorders" are extremes of personality that our society can’t /doesn’t want to cope with?

I’m all in favour of trying to ease any very severe symptoms that cause people physical pain, physical discomfort or interfere with people’s physical quality of life/ability to function.

However, I’m not so sure about forcing some people to change their personalities against their will just because their personalities are “inconvenient” for others to deal with socially though. That doesn’t seem ethical or fair. However, if anyone did want to be “cured” of their own personality and there was a “cure”, I wouldn’t stop them. It wouldn’t stop them in much the same way that I wouldn’t stop someone who wanted to undergo cosmetic surgery to have a “nose job”. I think that there should be a choice. These are just some ideas.

Remember "clinically ret*d" means low scores on IQ tests... which is exactly what a lot of autistics do horribly on because they have trouble with language and sensory processing.

Some of the people around here score pretty low on those IQ tests, and yet you couldn't tell by the way they write because their thoughts are just as complex as those of people who score unusually high. Add a little more communication difficulty, to prohibit clear use of written language, and you have people who can be just as good at thinking, only nobody can tell because they don't use language. It's kind of like the way people say dogs are smarter than cats because they learn commands easily... but that's just because the dog is motivated to please you, and the cat is living its own life and sees you as a clanmate or friend, not a master. The cat simply doesn't show his intelligence as easily, but if you have ever seen one get into a closed food bin or bring down a mouse--pound for pound, they are the most effective hunters in the animal kingdom--then you will see they are probably about as good at planning, learning, and improvising as dogs are. Autistics are the cats of the human world...

I don't agree with the 70% figure, either. I think it is probably closer to 30% in childhood, 10% in adulthood, and very little relevance during either time because IQ tests and autism just don't mix, and autistic development tends to be quite atypical in any case, with childhood status having only a moderate impact on adult prognosis.

From that discussion on MR, I wonder; is it the MR or the autistic symptoms that bother people more?

There's no cure for MR/LD so far, that's why I'm thinking about it.

Because while many of people score in the borderline MR/European LD range on tests because of autism, I assume there is also a fair amount of those who are indeed MR and autistic.

Various other genetic disorders also have the habit to come together with some type of intellectual disability. Especially if an ASD comes with various other disorder. That might as well include some level of MR.

A child who is 'just' mild MR and is verbal but speech delayed is quite a task to handle even if they're still young. If they are active and social (if they're not autistic), they tend to develop serious behavioural disorders.

Anyway, really, I'm curious in how most children who are currently 'severly' autistic of a certain type of autism would fare without their autism. Would the outcome be better? If you're active and social, you tend to learn a bit more than if you're not active.

But there's more to that. It depends on how does autism relates to IQ.

We know that an autistic person can have a certain profile because of their autism - weak verbal skills for example. We also know that splinter skills and peaks in a profile (in the range of 'relative strength' and 'talent', not 'savantism') occur in those with classical autism/autistic disorder in 1 of 10 people. Would the removal of autism change the intellectual abilities including the strengths in a profile? Would it be like lottery - let's hope it makes us more intelligent in our weaknesses but not erase out strengths?

How does autism relate to IQ and how would a removal of autism change the intelligence of an individual?

My theory, to return to a phrase used earlier in the thread, is that the 'bandwidth' of mental processing in most humans is relatively equal; nature distributes her talents fairly evenly. {Read John Gray's 'Straw Dogs' for a discussion of the generally low bandwidth of human consciousness.} For example, I'm sure most of us can only recall meeting 1 or 2 people at most who have both genius-level intellectual ability and 'jock-level' social & physical skills.

It's as if the amount of intelligence available to anyone is limited by the capacity of the human mind, be that capacity an electrical pulse produced by the brain or whatever else; after all, humans generally have brains of roughly equal complexity. I think of this as a fundamental intelligence which, in NTs, constantly migrates from LFA-style 'hidden IQ' (complex semi-conscious thinking that isn't generally apparent when tested) through classic academic ability (note the secondary meaning of 'academic' - 'meaningless in any direct practical application') through to instantaneous social recognition. So intelligence quickly becomes faster and more fluid in NTs, such that when new-born they're instantly aware of the meaning of a smile when they compare what they see against how they feel as their own faces form the same pattern. I suspect that every little thing a human being knows is learned in a particular instant ('core knowledge' sounds supernatural), but those instances that happen earlier in life are more likely to form that human's sense of identity.

An instant transition between autism and neurotypicality is possible as a hypothetical 'thought experiment' along those lines, but the limitations of the physical universe prevent it from actually being possible. If you want to add social skills without removing anything that's there already, you run up against the capacity problem I described - According to one theory, you'd be trying to add long (inter-regional) connections to a brain already bursting at the seams with short (intra-regional) connections. But imagine 'Freaky Friday', only with everything, including memories, left unswapped apart from consciousness. In other words, you experience the mind of an NT as that NT

Nature, not humanity, is in charge of humanity, however. Being an open, reckless kind of guy, I'd love to not have a fixed self of any kind (I'd even get bored of being James Bond if that were an option), but as it is, death is the only release from that