Critical of self diagnosis - you shouldn't be

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Fnord
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30 Nov 2014, 9:58 pm

Norny wrote:

Fnord wrote:

btbnnyr wrote:

I don't recognize any special authority of the site admin...

You mean, Alex Plank? The man who owns this website? Doesn't his ownership of this website confer any authority to him over the posting policies of this website? Or do you simply not recognize authority in general?

As a poster, I don't recognize any special authority with exception of admin powers, and he has not administered any rules regarding this website's status as a support site in this thread, only expressed his opinion, which is of equal value to all others' opinions here...

Alex Plank wields the Banhammer, which he uses to remove members who violate the rules. AFAIK, he is the only one who currently has that authority; so yes, he does administer the rules of this website.

btbnnyr
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30 Nov 2014, 10:04 pm

No one is saying that the site admin has no right to create rules and enforce them, but I am not obligated to respect his opinion more than others, and since I didn't violate any rules, there is nothing special for me to think about if he disagrees with my opinion.

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starkid
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30 Nov 2014, 11:07 pm

Thinking vs. Feeling

Quote:

Thinking

Thinkers decide based primarily on logic, and when they do so, they consider a decision to be made. They tend to see the world in black and white and dislike fuzziness.

Perhaps because people are so variable, they focus on tangible things, seeking truth and use of clear rules.

At work, they are task-oriented, seek to create clear value. Interacting with them tends to brief and business-like.

They may be seen as cold and heartless by Feelers.

Feeling

Feelers decide based primarily through social considerations, listening to their heart and considering the feelings of others.

They see life as a human existence and material things as being subservient to this. They value harmony and use tact in their interactions with others.

At work, they are sociable and people-oriented and make many decisions based on values (more than value).

They may be seen as unreliable and emotional by Thinkers.

Last edited by starkid on 30 Nov 2014, 11:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.

starkid
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30 Nov 2014, 11:17 pm

Conflict and the Thinker/Feeler Struggle in Relationships

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The usual cause of difficulty for couples that differ on this dichotomy comes from a fundamental difference in how they experience and express emotions. The moment harmony is disrupted, most feeling-response-oriented individuals feel bad, as if they have done something wrong. Knowing they have not, in fact, done something wrong does not usually help. They feel bad anyway.

When these feelings are triggered, they may immediately apologize, hoping to restore harmony and neutralize the guilt they are experiencing, or they may get upset with their partner for doing something that caused them to feel that way. Neither of these responses makes much sense to a thinking-response-oriented individual.

Why would a person feel guilty and bad simply because someone disagreed with them; much less suggest that the other is at fault for causing them to feel that way? From the thinking-oriented perspective these responses do not make logical sense and are therefore invalid.

dianthus
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30 Nov 2014, 11:28 pm

starkid wrote:

Conflict and the Thinker/Feeler Struggle in Relationships

Yep, very relevant here. I'm an INFP.

Quote:

Tip for feelers: Use logic-based constructs when explaining why they are upset. Example: “Even though you do not understand why I get upset when you say that, the fact remains that every time you say that I get upset. Given the predictability of my response, why do you keep saying that?”

That is right along the lines of what I keep thinking and wanting to ask people here. Why do you keep saying the same things over and over when the reactions are predictable?

btbnnyr
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30 Nov 2014, 11:35 pm

dianthus wrote:

starkid wrote:

Conflict and the Thinker/Feeler Struggle in Relationships

Yep, very relevant here. I'm an INFP.

Quote:

That is right along the lines of what I keep thinking and wanting to ask people here. Why do you keep saying the same things over and over when the reactions are predictable?

It is because the reactions are not important, but the content of what is said is to me.
In my mind, the content is paramount, and other things are not.
Also, I know that different people have different reactions, so the reactions that people have are not limited to those of a few.

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Norny
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30 Nov 2014, 11:42 pm

So what exactly should the aim of this thread be now?

It is clear that there are many sides to this argument, and the only notable result so far seems to be that those with a self-diagnosis are taking offense.

Should Alex enforce the nature of this site to be supportive and prohibit all criticizing of such things, or..

..what?

What alternatives are there?

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btbnnyr
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30 Nov 2014, 11:45 pm

The only reasonable approach is that people be free to post their personal opinions without attacking others.

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dianthus
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30 Nov 2014, 11:53 pm

I think if you go back to the OP it is clear where Peejay wanted to go with this thread, by talking about how official diagnostic criteria change over time so it is not the almighty gold standard people seem to think it is.

btbnnyr
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30 Nov 2014, 11:58 pm

Ackshuly, posters against self-diagnosis have generally said in this thread and others about this topic that professional diagnosis is not perfect and has problems too, and also autism has to be more clearly defined, but that the current standards are what are available, developed using scientific method, and applied by eggspert clinicians and researchers. It is the posters supporting self-diagnosis who say that the posters against self-diagnosis said that the professionals are godlike and the standards are almighty, but in fact, those posters never said that and said other things that directly conflict with that the false attributions. It is important to set the record straight on what people said and didn't say.

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B19
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01 Dec 2014, 12:00 am

Norny wrote:

1) Look for common ground and
2) occupy it with mutual respect, which means
3) stop telling other people what they should do
4) just speak of and from your own experience, not for others nor about others
5) stop the blaming and shaming
6) strive to understand different points of view rather than attacking them as a kneejerk reaction

Simple?

Last edited by B19 on 01 Dec 2014, 12:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

rebbieh
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01 Dec 2014, 12:04 am

I think this whole discussion is getting a bit out of hand and it's clear that neither "side" will convince the other. Can't we (all of us in general) just agree to disagree?

btbnnyr
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01 Dec 2014, 12:07 am

I don't see these discussions as attempting to convince others who have the opposite opinion as I do.
Rather, it is for people to eggspress their opinions and discuss this and related topics.
There is no need to reach any consensus.

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rebbieh
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01 Dec 2014, 12:10 am

btbnnyr wrote:

I think it's important to be able to express opinions and to discuss things but don't you think this is all "going round in circles"?

btbnnyr
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01 Dec 2014, 12:12 am

rebbieh wrote:

btbnnyr wrote:

I think it's important to be able to express opinions and to discuss things but don't you think this is all "going round in circles"?

Not really, since the discussion has evolved and is covering interesting material, in my opinion.
Possibly I have high tolerance for this sort of thing, since my research work is like this, going with a few topics and going on and on and on studying them...

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rebbieh
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01 Dec 2014, 12:13 am

btbnnyr wrote:

rebbieh wrote:

btbnnyr wrote:

I think it's important to be able to express opinions and to discuss things but don't you think this is all "going round in circles"?

Ok, maybe it's just me then (in that case, carry on). I know for a fact that I don't like confrontation.

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