Optimism and Reality: Goldfish21 Response to me

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Yet, most of our society claims to be Christian. I wish I was a wizard and could use legilimency from Harry Potter.

My priest said that most people in his parish are not real Christians. He finds it hard to look at them all through the eyes of Jesus. Most people only think about themselves and appeasing the popular crowd. People forget that Jesus ate with prostitutes, lepers, and tax collectors. My priest reminded us of that in his homily today. He said that the Holy Family when through some huge struggles so there was no excuse for the high divorce rate in our country.

It's a dog eat dog world, girlfriend. Don't let anyone blow smoke up your bum and say differently.

I guess the only difference between dogs and people is that people are more sophisticated when peeing and sh*****g in your house.

Here is what I don't get though. If I chose to drop out of the competition whether it is through suicide or welfare/SSDI why do others get so angry. I understand why my family would be upset. But, if I choose to drop out wouldn't they have more opportunities? By my dropping out wouldn't they have less competitors?

Right. Nobody outside your family would care.

HistoryGal, my experience is they do care. If I straight up tell them I can't do it and/or don't wish to do it a number of ppl get angry and/or they try anything and everything to get you to be positive and do it. If it is true it is a dog eat dog world then wouldn't the most logical thing to is to be happy about it since they would have less competitors to compete with?

They don't care. They just like to criticize you. People totally don't care at all. It's nothing to them.

Yep. People like having someone around that they can look down on and criticize.

But you're an intelligent guy, Mr. Cube. I'd be sad if you gave up and dropped out.

Why wouldn't I be upset?

I know you would be upset. You have humanity in you my friend. You're a good dude. I'm talking about those who do not, like HistoryGirl talks about. Ladyelaine provides a possible answer though. They want to have someone to look down upon to prop themselves up. I will say that those who do that usually have major issues themselves.

I keep thinking that people think in a rational manner and even if they were selfish they would still do something that is the most rational for themselves. I forget a number of people don't do this and then I wonder why I'm surprised.

And it begs the question, whether they cared or not, would it even be possible for them to provide me and others the assistance we need? Would the average joe have the knowledge and wisdom to be able to impart instruction to those such as ourselves?

People get pissed when people give up & drop out of life because it does affect them.

We live in a society that doesn't let people just starve and die when they give up, for the most part, so working people get angry at the fact that for every person that can work but chooses not to, they have to work harder to pay taxes to keep those people alive who are unwilling (not unable, there's a difference) to work and provide for themselves.

So, it is in peoples' own interest to want others to work. Also, I think there's a flaw in your competition theory. Chances are people don't look at quitters as a reduction in competition because chances are likely if you're on the verge of quitting in life then you're not likely competing for the same types of jobs and pay scales are the people who are upset at you for quitting.

Isn't that a bit of an oxymoron? How can people be considered independent if they require more services to be so? Doesn't that make them dependant on the services vs. independent?

The point, again, is that if someone doesn't even believe they can catch fish they're not too likely to learn how & then do it. First they have to believe they even can in the first place, or at LEAST be willing to try & then they might surprise themselves with being able to do it.

Yes, construction. Been in it for years off and on, varying types of work/trades, residential/commercial/renovation restoration etc. Construction jobs are pretty easy to get. Tons of vacancies. This particular job I got a heads up from my dad that they needed apprentices in their union for one of the trades so I went and took the course, signed up with the union, and got dispatched out to a company - no real interview required. I can usually pass interviews, though. The interview was the 6 week training class, really. Anyone who can't show up every day and can't do the actual work won't get a job as a new apprentice out of it. No personality test - never had any employer issue one. Did one in business school, though. I can usually write an ok resume - again, I have a business school education. My time perception isn't perfect all the time, sometimes I'm slow, but I'm expected to be slower while learning. First you get good at this trade, then you get fast. But in general I can keep up and do work just fine - now at 6'2 ~195-200lbs ~13%bf I'm one of the fittest strongest guys on site all the time so I can handle work just fine. If I'm being slow and someone brings it to my attention, I try to pay closer attention to the cock and just start moving quicker vs. trying to slowly carefully get good results.

You'd know the pace by comparing your speed/output to others doing the same job. Or by whether you're not supplying the next person/step in the process with the item being produced fast enough. Other than that it's just generally assumed that you're supposed to always try to get things done as quickly as you safely can while still doing them correctly.

All that said, someone really should have just told you "cube, we work at a bit faster pace around here. I need you to get 10 of these done per hour and you're only managing 7 right now so let's work on picking up the pace a little." Or something to that effect. In reality they probably thought "I shouldn't have to tell anyone to move faster than that slow pace so I'll just fire & replace him with someone who just intuitively gets that they have to work quicker." Sometimes managers are going to assume that these basics should be obvious to workers in general so they're not going to make an attempt to train a slow person to speed up.

In the past when I've accidentally lost focus and slowed my pace and it's brought to my attention, I've tended to apply the industrial engineering part of my education to my work and end up completely streamlining my own body/hand movements to do the job faster than anyone.

Nobody is independent, and nobody's full contribution to society can be calculated until the end of time.

I wouldn't dispense with all optimism, at the right time it can be very helpful. BUT there is a very wrong time. If I admit I find something really hard and am upset, someone saying it's easy is the VERY WORSE thing at the WORSE TIME. I don't just find something hard APPARENTLY I find something easy hard and have no right to be upset.

After I've picked myself up, this is a good time for optimism, and I am much more likely to listen to peoples advice (as long as its not too patronising)

Goldfish has it right. People don't care because of altruism. They don't want to get stuck with the tab. No sunshine and rainbows there.

Goldfish - you appear to be quite neurotypical. Just my observations. Not meant as an offense.

Societies operate on the George W. philosophy: you're either with us or against us. Society doesn't see dropping out as neutral, it means you're not with it thus you're against it.

If we're talking the social safety net, society will view you as a freeloader for using it's resources. Let's say you decide to not go that route but decide to move to a remote local in Alaska, build a cabin, and live like a hermit, society views you as not just a non-contributor, but a danger since the resources you're using on that land society views as it's own and you're now a thief. It doesn't matter that society has never erected anything on the land or used it in any productive way, society still claims it and you're using it without contributing the way society wants.

If we're talking suicide: if you commit suicide you may give that idea to others, and if a lot of people commit suicide (mass suicide is anomaly, but it does happen), then that's less production, thus less power for the society. Furthermore, if the sociopaths at the top of the pyramid (whose only skill set is manipulation and wrestling control) have no one below them to provide for them, they themselves have no means of survival, so it's in their best interest to deem suicide among the greatest of threats.

The #1 dictum of society is: society isn't here to provide for you, the individual, you're here to provide for society.

A few commonplaces you'll hear along the way to drive that point home:

"Society was here long before you and will be here long after you." (meaning you're small, weak, and must bend to the dominance of society).

"Humans are social creatures, get used to it." (this statement usually implies the individual's sole purpose should be for the social group 100% of the time, failing to understand that a whole host of 'social' species spend less than half their time in an actual social environment).

"Look at all the things society has done for you, such as electric power, rapid transportation, housing" (taking credit for the discoveries of individuals is one society's go to claims. Mozart wasn't just a composer, he was a German composer, German society takes full credit for his individual achievements, just as the U.S. does with Thomas Edison).

"Without society you wouldn't be here" (implying you and your ancestors were too weak to procreate and survive on their own, failing to realize at some point in time we all evolved from creatures that weren't social and they obviously survived).

There are others, but the main gist is the same: society is more powerful than you, not the other way around, so do what we say or else.

No, it does not. Here is why. If I'm shown and taught the things I need to know while receiving a living and the goal is for me to be independent and I achieve this then this answers your question.



If I voluntarily show up to the class or tutoring to catch fish then I must have some hope and belief I can even if it is small as a mustard seed. Let me put it to you this way. I had problems with driving especially with switching lanes. I had to go to driving school, decided to see it as an opportunity to learn something and I gained a lot from it. I am a better driver cause of it. The instructor was strict and threw you out for sleeping in class but if you paid attention and took notes when he said to write it down it was easy. Maybe there is something to the whole positivity thing after all I guess.



Ok, I live in Ga and let's say I want to try construction. What can I do to go about it?

And, you mean clock right not cock? I know you're gay and that's fine but I do hope you're not staring at other dude's cock, right? They may not like it or did you mean clock?



This is very, very helpful. More helpful then being told to have faith or believe in yourself.



I understand.



Awesome! Using Taylor's Scientific Management?