List one NT thing you do not understand.

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Read his post again. He was dead serious.

The cue when to talk versus when not to talk. I never got that. Maybe it has to do with nonverbal gestures.

Children are quite fine thank you until they get screwed up by adults.

If I've made a personal attack it's because I felt that it was deserved. No one would put up with or accept B9's bigoted, mean spirited post if he was talking about a minority racial group, women or (and perhaps especially) people w/AS. Defend his view if you like but it wouldn't be anything I would too proud of.

The abilty to have empathy for those too small or weak to defend themselves is a decent, human trait. It distinguishes us from lesser creatures. To dismiss it as unfair, nonsensical or illogical is sad IMO.

How NT people immediately treat you different when they find out that u got AS/HFA

another reason children so easily sell stuff is due to the "cute, innocent" factor.

I think it's overly lame, but it doesn't mean I don't love kids...I do.

Children are indeed the future...just remember that most of society still can't figure out jack sh*t about the proper methods to raise them because they're so morally corrupt themselves

Regardless, yeah, I love kids

You wouldn't be much of a toy seller if you didn't .

i suppose i had better reply now or else the moderators may ban me because i imagine there would be many complaints about my post by now.

i did not say i think children are unimportant.
i just think that people see their own species as somehow more worthy of life than animals. and they see as children as more valuable than any adult.

i agree children have not yet lived and so it is more of a "rip off" if they lose their life before they got to live it.
i also agree that children need special care because they are unable to survive without it.

i just do not understand why people are fixated with them and are moved to tears just by telling people about their kids.

i do not understand why people say the only purpose of our lives is in the service of children and the future generations.




sorry that was a bit extreme of me. i was cranky because i changed the chanel on TV 5 times and just heard kids advertising stuff, and another channel had a mother holding her baby to a gooey song "it must be love love love", and they are advertising tissues.


it is good that you see animals as living and not just as "animated".

i noticed a large flying insect all ravelled up in old cobwebs on a bench in my garage that i thought was dead, and i had seen it there for about 2 weeks.
i decided to throw it away when i cleaned up and i noticed it's leg twitch.

i was extremely sad for the insect because it had been trapped for so long and i never noticed. so i got a needle and tweezers and i carefully unravelled the insect from the web. it was barely moving and i very much wanted to save it.
i took it and put it on the railing of my porch where it could fly away if it recovered. it must have been very dehydrated and i thought it would be a pity if it died after surviving so long in the webs.
i went and got an eye dropper and mixed a weak sugar and water solution and dropped some drops near it's mouth. i saw the drop disappear as it got sucked into the insect.

it slowly started to shiver, and then flutter it's wings, and after about 30 mins, it flew off.
unfortunately i saw a bird catch it as it flew away.
well i may be crazy but i was so sad my eyes got teary.


you are quick to demonize me. i agree they are special and innocent. animals are also that. i have care for all things living and you have only care for your own species and i find that to be conceited. also i do not blame AS for any of my shortcomings.


i never said they are not.


so you only care for kids. you care not for animals or insects or even adult people.




is it mean spirited for me to see animals as just as important as people? is it mean spirited of me to value a 90 year old wrinkly feeble minded person as much as a rosy cheeked "bouncing" healthy baby?
your opinion of me is how everyone i know sees me so you are in the majority and i am wrong i guess but that is my opinion. i think all life deserves to live equally.

i saw a story recently on TV about a flying fox colony that was bothering kids at a school.

the school was only a year old and was built near the nesting area of the bats.
they were protesting to the council to kill the bats because they smell bad and their children do not like it. also the bats were too noisy and disrupted the attention of the classes.

every parent i saw interviewed was adamant that the bats should be eliminated because it is in the interests of the children.
even the kids said things like "they're gross! they stink and are so ugly".

so for that reason there are crowds of hicks all demanding that the bats lose their lives if they can not be relocated. the bats were there first, and there is no threat to the health of any kid.
it is just that their "kiddie's beautiful faces" are frowning, and their parents will slaughter animals to bring back their smile.
it is insane in my mind, but people call me insane for seeing it as insane.




you are like a pit bull who shakes a rag and starts to believe it is a rabbit.

i was saying all things are equal and no one is more important than anyone else.




"lesser" animals are "lesser" only in your mind and the majority who, like you, are so vain that they say things like "animals do not go to heaven", and "god loves only humans and not animals".
that is one reason i do not want to be involved in "society".


if you think i dismissed empathy as nonsensical etc, then you are hallucinating. i never once mentioned empathy.

in fact i think you are using my post as your soap box to get up and extol your "virtues" by attacking the "evil minded jerk" and defending the innocent kids.
who knows or cares anyway.

i do not usually write at this time of day. i usually write before i go to bed at night so i will not see any reply you give until then.

i just wrote now before there was a ground swell of disapproval about my post resulting a landslide of complaints to admin who may have to ban me to appease them.
maybe i am already too late.

How do they get skrewed up by adults?


Meh. I didn't think his post was that offensive.


And if society had the same level of empathy for adults that it does for children the world would be a much better place.

Not all kids are fine, I was bullied by them growing up and pushed away, disliked for being different. But I forgive them, I don't expect little kids to understand differences and conditions and assume someone might have a hidden disability but some of them were truely mean kids. They made fun of me and teased me because I was "ret*d." So they knew I was different but just didn't care. In society, it's okay to pick on someone just as long as they look normal. But yet if they pick on someone who looks different, they get shunned vs picking on someone who looks normal and looks like there is nothing wrong with them just by looking at them. I grew up in a neighborhood with mean kids because their parents didn't do their jobs. Their excuses were "they're just kids, not a big deal." I had some hatred in me and it goes back to my early years when I get back at kids. If someone pissed me off, I had to do something back to them. When my one year old brother would wreck my fort or when he dropped a bag on my head, i got even with him. i think that was why i was so mean to him when I was four and five. At first I was a loving toddler, I cuddled with him and pushed him around in his walker and then all of a sudden I was mean to him when he was one. I sat on him, pushed him down the stairs, locked him in the bathroom and I just loved seeing him cry. I think it was all due to grudges I had when he do innocent things like wrecking my fort, dropping a bag on my head because he didn't know any better. I had to always get back at him to move on. My way of releasing the anger, getting rid of it. I even tried to push him in the deep end of the pool when I was six and mom stopped me. I wanted to see him scream and stuff and drown. I didn't even know what drowning was then. I was horrible. I didn't know then how he was going to feel, I just did what was on my mind to see his reaction and to me it was fun, I did it to other kids too. I used to regret it later on in my life for how I treated him and other kids. But yet he always stood up for me and protected me and keep his friends away from my stuff and out of my room when he was older but he was still in preschool. I was mean to him less by then because he didn't piss me off.

So maybe where you come from, there were no kids who were nasty and stuff and they were all sweet and caring, kind. I came from the world where there were mean kids and I got taken advantage of, used, teased, taunted, bullied, used as a circus animal. Kids in high school and middle school still tried to take advantage of me but I got smart by then thanks to my childhood bullies. They try and get me to do things for them like beat someone up for them, hit someone for them, pull the fire alarm and I said no to all that and told them they do it if they want it done so bad or get someone else to do it. By then I wasn't desperate for friends and I wanted to be myself, not be like everyone else. I gave up on the normal crap. But in the Missoulian article I saw online, this 14 year old boy had to be taken out of school because kids kept taunting him and stuff and taking advantage of him and this kid was letting it happen because he wanted friends so bad and be normal. He had autism but didn't accept it and was in denial. He wanted to be accepted so bad. His parents finally took him out of school and will have him go to a another school. Just shows how cruel kids can be and i think it gets worse as they get older. They get meaner. By 6th grade for me, bullying had gotten so bad I had a nervous breakdown my parents also took me out of school. It might have gotten worse after that year if we stayed in Washington unless my parents decided to put me in a smallar school they would have to pay for or move to a smallar town but they decided move to Montana to be closer to my grandparents to help my uncle take care of them plus they knew the schools be better. Now they want to move back to Portland.


I thought B9's point was people care more about kids than adults. I have noticed how more attention goes towards them and people want to save them more and help them than they would with adults. I find that sad. But if an adult is sick and stuff, the adult has to have money, they aren't going to try and save him for free like they would with a child. Instead they rather bill the adult and he is in debt because the health insurance doesn't pay for all of it. But I have seen some shows on health channel and sometimes grown ups do get the operations they need but I don't know if they are doing it for free or using donations to help the adult or if the insurance is paying for it.
We have the Ronald McDonald houses but we don't have any of that for adults. I have even asked the same thing in real life, why do people care more about kids than adults. Even I have seen parents asking why do they want to help autistic kids more than autistic adults. Why do lot of the services goes towards autistic kids? Even normal parents are peeved by that who have autistic kids. The same thing has been asked here too about AS. Why are there services for aspie kids but less services for aspie adults. Is this lacking empathy? I think people wanting to help adults less is sure lacking it. Society lacks empathy, we all lack it from time to time. Why must they make it an aspie trait? Maybe people choose to lack it and we don't or we lack it too often and they don't? I don't know.



I've noticed when I left Fred Meyers with my husband, these girls were selling girl scout cookies at the front entrance and they said "Do you want to buy our cookies" and I said no thanks but my husband said "Oh I'll buy some." He goes to the ATM machine and gets cash and buys some because he couldn't resist. He tells me to pick out a box and I choose the mint ones as always. He said he wanted to help them out but if they were adults, less likely he would buy some. I have noticed how my husband aims towards kids like if he doesn't want something, he gives it to a child he sees. He never goes for any grown ups. To me it's weird because I treat everyone the same. I don't think anyone should get special treatment and everyone should be treated equally to make it fair. "Oh there's a woman selling cookies and I want some but I can't buy from her. No money, oh look a child is selling cookies too, I'm going to buy some and screw my budget." So unfair. I can imagine some parents using their kids to sell stuff to make people buy from them because they have a child. But it doesn't work with me.
Just don't take him to any fairs where there be a bunch of booths being ran by kids selling things.

You couldn't be more wrong. I care for all living things (I'm the kind of guy that will scoop up a spider & put him outside rather than kill it), I have & have had pets, but no, I don't value the life of a bat the same as I do a human child. No clear thinking, reasonable person would.

I don't believe in god either so therefor I don't believe that animals (nor anyone else) can go to heaven.

For someone who professes to love all living things you sure seem to have a lot of anger in your heart.

One question. How many children do you have?

Of course children can be mean. But they aren't born that way. Have you ever seen a mean baby or toddler? Some kids get mean because of the environment they are raised in. But they aren't born that way.

You will never see anything as pure or as innocent as an infant. They perfect, like diamonds, and they shine so brightly that you sometimes have to shield your eyes from them so you don't go blind. They are special.

Wanna buy a rainbow pony? Adults get less empathy because in general they deserve less empathy.

I have empathy for the family man down on his luck who is having a hard time supporting his family. I have less empathy for the son of a b***h that sticks a gun in my sisters side & steals her purse.

My point is a lot more outright evil adults than there are evil kids. And the adults, being adults, should know better. They are old enough to know the difference between right and wrong.

Socrates was called the wisest man in Greece by the Oracle at Delphi because he admired his own ignorance.

Yes. This kid was mean to me starting at age four and he was friends with my brother but his parents never did anything about his meanness but yet when kids be mean to him, they wouldn't like it but yet thought it was okay for their kid to be mean to other kids. One time I insulted him when I was 12 and he went crying to his mother and his mom yelled after me but I just kept walking away, then she called my mother on the phone and complained and my mom told her her kid needs to toughen up and pray to god to make her kid stronger. Threw her words right back at her. I thought it was funny what she did.

My brother has been attacked by a two year old when I was 10 but it was seen as innocent. My dad looked at him and just said to my brother "Oh he is just a little boy." The mother kept trying to keep him off the McDonalds play equipment because he was hurting kids but the dad turn around and let him back on it. My parents and my brothers just looked at him and thought good mother, bad father.
I even pushed a girl off the fake ship when I was two because she was in my way and wouldn't move and you know what, mom yelled at me and we left the play area. I knew it was wrong to push but did it anyway because I thought I would get away with it because I didn't see my mom. But then she appeared out of no where saying "You don't push" and told me to slide down and we left. It was before my brothers were born so I assume I was two then.

So yeah toddlers can be mean and it's the grown ups job to teach them how to be nice. Some even start bullying at that young age and start acting like their parents like this kid did in my neighborhood. He was nice and sweet but then he started to get bratty at age four and be mean. I have never seen his parents be mean or act that way or hear about it, they let him be that way. I have even heard of a two year old acting like his dad by being violent because his dad was. He was around the abuse and thought that's how you act. So you are right that kids do get taught how to be mean. They look at their parents. They even get mean if their parents never correct their behavior, so they keep on doing it. I was a mean toddler, I can remember my mom saying "mean" to me and back then I didn't even know what it meant. All I know was I was just playing and then I get the yelling and get called mean. I didn't even need to be taught how to be mean and how to tease. It was in my nature to tease because my dad does it and my grand dad did, and my uncle but I didn't know where to draw the line for teasing and know when to stop. I just loved getting reactions out of people. Even I was doing it as a baby my mom says, teasing.
Teasing can be bullying if it's hurting people or bothering them so basically I did bully people at a young age, rather it was my intention or not or rather I understood my actions or not.
So could it be possible that meanness can come to nature for a child just like teasing was for me? Suppose I picked it up in my infant years from my dad? Even he did some teasing with me as an infant. He would do it with food, I saw it in the video he took. Put the food to my mouth and pull it away and I get upset and mom say "You're teasing her, stop" as if he didn't know what he was doing or understanding why I was starting to get upset. I wonder if that's one of his aspie traits? Can't understand people and their feelings and why they acted a certain way. I swear I have better social skills than he does because I took the effort to learn and he didn't. He thinks people are the ones with the problem, not him when obviously it was him, not them. My mom calls him a jerk sometimes and as*hole.
I think I was born with teasing because my dad does it, my grand dad, my uncle, my mom's brother, her dad. Now I tease my husband all the time to get reactions out of him but I don't go far that would hurt him. There has only been three times in my life since we've met when I have unintentionally and I say my sorry and ask why he was hurt by that comment and try to understand his side and sometimes I still don't get it because it doesn't make any sense. But with my dad, if he did this, he wouldn't say sorry or even try to understand, he would just think you're being too sensitive and need to toughen up and he didn't do anything wrong. But then ironically he turns around and tells me this summer we all say things that offend people and we apoligize and move on, if they don't accept it or get over it, their problem.

The concept of children being perfect and not knowing hatred and prejudice is an interesting one to say the least, as some of my earliest memories are of being verbally abused and bullied by these 'perfect, hatred-free' children my own age simply because they found it entertaining.



No, I agreed with it. I think some people have missed the point you were making, which (I think) was that even though children may require certain extra protections simply because they are smaller, less knowledgeable and therefore more vulnerable, they often receive a disproportionate amount of attention stemming from purely emotional reactions.

Something which I also don't like is when parents seem to expect everyone else to think that their child is as wonderful as they do. If you become annoyed with a child who is behaving badly and being allowed to run riot by its parents, they often fly into an insane rage that anyone could possibly think the antics of their little angel are anything less than adorable.

Yeah, I'm with Marshall. I was tortured for being different from kindergarten on up. There was this other little girl in my kindergarten class who told other little kids not to nap next to me. So they kept moving away, and I kept following them because I wanted to be friends but they didn't want me. Same thing in third grade, picking teams and I'm the last to be picked and this girl laughed at the team I ended up on and said "Ha, she's on your team!"

Well, she wouldn't have said that if that was to be some kind of teams to contest some academic type of quiz questions or whatever. But it was sports, so she gave herself the privilege of laughing at moi.

Kids are not unicorns, you know. "Pure and unselfish" HA -- ever see kids fight over toys or swingsets or whatever else? They are just human, same vanities, prides, and cutting cruelty as any other human on the planet. They may not understand the significance of their actions yet, I suppose, but then maybe adults don't either. I experienced that 'you don't belong' idiocy -- like it would kill someone to be nice to the oddball -- all the way through jobs, school, undergrad years, and graduate school years, where I had a fellowship and though AHA! at last I will meet others like me! Boy was I wrong. I'm a little naive. Before I started researching AS I kept thinking I would find a place to belong, but I never did, and now I know that I won't necessarily as I thought it would happen. Glad I can exchange thoughts with people on WP though. It helps alot.