So I posted in the infamous AS partners forum for NT's...

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That whole thread was about "I know an NT who is <XYZ>", perhaps unknowingly because they don't always understand all our issues, not the other thing.

The difference is that when it happens here, the venting about NT's is usually balanced by another perspective of older aspies and even some NT's who put the issues into context and correct misconceptions. Also there's a very limited amount of it.

Over there, their bashing of aspies as a whole group is in a way that threatens to stigmatise us and spread inaccurate information if a potential partner goes looking for information on AS.

I don't know. Not all of the things sound to be caused by AS to me and not all of their spouses are even diagnosed. Some of them make the mistake of assuming a particular problem is caused by AS when it isn't. Even if it's a support site for people to rant about their AS partners, I still understand why someone would post a thread about a sociopath and using it as example of aspie behaviour (it's dishonest and extremely harmful) or post a thread like the Adam Lanza one, connecting AS to shooting sprees. I would of thought that a support group would want to share accurate information, regardless of how angry individual members are with their partners.

Support sites without a focus on healing and respect are prone to degenerate into complaint and malice, which if only encouraged ad nauseum by other malicious complainers, are likely to transmogrify into being hate sites. Sadly that's AS.

I personally do not like talk of 'rights' beyond basic civil rights - and even those are mainly freedoms. Rights often imply a claim on another body or person. A 'right to a relationship' is a nonsense - because it implies that someone has to be in a relationship with you. A freedom or a liberty to enter into a relationship without impediment is a different thing and something I can support.

So for example, I support the 'right' of gay marriage - because it's a claim on the state to perform a civil and legal function - and it's a matter of parity and equality with other types of (heterosexual) relationships which are enforced by law and supported with certain privileges that should be available to gay couples, too. But I do not believe in the right of gay relationships, because no one has the right to make someone be in a relationship with them. However, even more fundamental than the right of gay marriage is the freedom to pursue, enter and sustain a gay relationship.

This may feel like a subtle distinction, but it's an important one. And really I don't care if a website called world sexology makes a claim of rights. Who ratified and enforces these 'rights'? Anyone can post up anything they want. I can make a website stating I have a right to be cuddled by kittens, but that doesn't make it so. (sadly - though I bet it would get more traffic than AS Partners does)

I think you give ASPartners more credit than it deserves. The membership is small, I don't have access to the stats, but I'd bet the traffic is pretty low, too. It's not a propaganda site. It's not that organised.

Is your problem that you think because it's often said 'he/she will not change, it will not get better' that it's interfering with the 'right' of an AS partner to continue with a damaging relationship? Because that's a 'right' that impedes the fundamental freedom of speech.

I think this is a question of semantics, or at least talking at cross purposes.

I do not think anyone is entitled to a relationship, but we're entitled to the pursuit of one. If a law was passed banning relationships, then it would be a breach of our human rights (or, if you prefer, "human liberties" or "human freedoms").

I agree with Walrus. Pursuing a relationship is a form of pursuing happiness right. We're not entitled to happiness meaning no one should be forced to be in one with you but one has the right to pursue one.

Elkclan, here is one of the issues that I have. A number of members there claim that their spouses did a bait and switch which is a form of fraud. If they didn't understand themselves and understand that they had Aspergers because it wasn't in the DSM then how could they have done a bait and switch.

To me, it is unreasonable to accuse someone of fraud when there was no intent to commit fraud and no fraud was committed based upon the preponderance of the evidence. Even I didn't know about my AS until I was 29.

There are still people out there who are undiagnosed and unaware that they even have an issue. If they got married how does a bait and switch happen based upon the definition of the concept since the undiagonised aspie doesn't even know he or she is? How is that fair to put criminal charges upon someone?

Now, I do believe that the women of ASpartners do have one point. It is said that two keys of a relationship are trust and communication. Trust comes from honesty. I believe if one does know about his diagnosis then when something starts to get serious one needs to be honest and upfront about himself, both positive and negative qualities about himself. Autism and Aspergers comes with communication issues. Whether it is medically based or socially based, still it does. The potential NT has to be able to know what he or she is getting into by getting into a relationship with you.

In pursuing a relationship, in a way one is making a sales pitch and selling himself. Shouldn't the product that one is selling be based upon honesty and have truth in advertising? I hate when there is deception by salesmen including used car salesmen. On this, I believe we need to and ought to be honest when entering a relationship.

I think what bothers "us" so much is the characterization as if we're all this way, as if this is the way that ALL NT spouses feel, and should feel, about ALL AS spouses.

I still have to fight with this POV. I'm pretty sure that's an ASD thing (black and white thinking maybe??).

Hubby finally got mad, forbade me to go there any more, and told me that, if I needed to listen to people who I don't even know talk about other people I don't even know, none of whom are him or me, in order to find out how HE REALLY FELT ABOUT ME, then I was:

1) stupid.
2) in need of seeing a therapist about my trust issues.
3) falling into the same trap that women fall into when they try to compete with Playboy centerfolds, or think they need to.
4) falling into the same trap he falls into when he believes he needs a six-figure paycheck and a ten-inch penis to satisfy me/A Woman.

I don't say this without reservation very often on topics that don't relate to mathematics, HVAC, or wiring diagrams, but HE'S RIGHT.

Where did any of us say this? What we're saying and anyone can correct me if I'm wrong is that you're lumping us all together as though we're spawns of Satan. You all are making a hasty generalization about a population group. Yes, we have this disorder but does this mean we're monsters waiting to strike and we're Machiavellian manipulators and sociopaths? This is why we're calling you all out on your BS. If a person is researching aspergers and sees your words without the other side what will they think? What about potential employers? What will they think?

We're already marginalized as it is all because we can't make the eye contact you all demand and the type of handshake you all want and more. What's next? If we stick our pinky fingers out wrong while we're drinking our coffee and/or tea we're being socially inappropriate.

I can't even carry my f*****g jacket in a way that I am able to do so without being considered socially inappropriate. When do the social standards become ridiculous? We aspies have no say in the social veneer whatsoever. We don't get a vote on it. It is Caucasian NTs who has privilege. You make the rules, have all of the keys and guard all of the doors. By privledge you have numerous advantages over us.

I've been unable to find anything on that site that resembles support, apart from validating their hurt feelings with "I've been there too, you're not imagining it," etc. If only they would limit it to that, I'd have no complaint. But they very frequently take it to another level, that of generalising and demonising, and finding examples of bigotry against us there is like shooting fish in a barrel:

"..aspies can't be rescued. it's like trying to rescue a fish from being in water."

"..they will destroy you, take everything from you and if you're not strong, destroy you. They are like heroin."

"Only those who've been trapped by the "Oh so sweet little autistic professors" know the truth and we need to get it out there"

"YOUR needs have to be scheduled if you expect to get them, their needs are on an as needed basis."

"He is like Kryptonite to my heart.
Only my closest friends, and of course everyone on this forum, could understand this."

"They are just not capable of doing the right thing, how can they understand and be there for you when they don't even understand or care for themselves?"

Whether or not it's accurate to call it a "hate site" is debatable. But I think it's hard to deny that much of what they say is likely to foster hatred against us. Imagine the above quotes being levelled at an ethnic minority or a group of immigrants. Do you think it would be just? Do you think it would be tolerated?

A good counsellor may well allow a client to vent, and the venting may be just as ugly as the venting on AS Partners. The counsellor validates the underlying feelings, but doesn't reinforce the prejudice. The hope is that the client, once they've got the rage out of their system, will begin to see the problems more objectively, and work out solutions without those extreme negative feelings getting in the way.

In that respect, AS Partners fails completely. The rage and prejudice is an end in itself. They leave with a horribly skewed notion of what's really going on. As far as they're concerned, their pain was all somebody else's fault.

It's a testament to your clear thinking that you can read their offensive, overblown generalisations and have the humility to ask yourself if you've been guilty of some of those things to some extent. Anybody who can do that is likely to grow. As far as I can see from their writing, they mostly can't. They still don't seem to have worked out that AS is a spectrum condition and that most of us aren't as full-blown as the most unpartnerable 1% of us are.

cubedemon, this is the 2nd time I've read you mention your jacket.. how the heck are you wearing it that is so disturbing?

My MY....
You all just can't stop it can you.
Again... you bring our forum to your dump.

( swear word ) you all.

Stay out of OUR page because you are not learning anything.
And then Juno thinks it's ok to fake a name and write.

This is why we don't like you. You don't let us have our own opinion.
That is a page for us n/t. Of course you don't get it. Read and learn or leave us the heck alone.

You all always write such vile crap. Now you know we advocate LEAVING. Because many of you turn out this way. Hating. Writing hateful crap.

Stay off our n/t page. Leave us alone.
Stop linking US here. If we want to be here we will.

I am a member here and listed as an n/t.
I refer others to this forum is they want to read and understand more about Asperger people. To meet others asp. people. I do it in kind. I am trying to help others.

I logged in because I sent a msg to someone here that is asp. Then I see the AS Partner page commented on again! Leave us alone.

You just hate... sigh.

Yes, but ethnicity does not effect social cognition, autism does. Our disability effects the part of us that is needed for relationships.

Well it is when I'm carrying it. Imagine the X-Files theme and remember the words said forth by Agent Fox Mulder when he said "The Truth is Out There."

Androbot, I agree but I do have a question. Does it affect it absolutely or is it relative to the type of person one is in a relationship one is in? Thing is, when NT especially professionals come up with these, they still come up with these things as though they're the center. The NTs are the majority and we're the extreme minority. They set the standards and tone by default. Does this apply in all cases no matter what scenario. Think of the show Sliders and the possibilities of different Earths Would we be affected no matter what Earth we went to or do different Earths have different possibilities making things relative?

Excuse me? Actually, my only account on Delphi forums at the moment has the username "narud" and I've only used it recently to join the "Asperger Adults" forum, I didn't post in your forum.

Edit: I've just checked your forum and you've just blocked someone who was genuinely looking to your forum for support. Congratulations. God this is hilarious.

Last edited by Jono on 10 Feb 2015, 10:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

You don't like me? I haven't even met you. I'm pretty sure that posting that here is not going to help your cause any but good luck. (Posted here instead of AS Partners because I really have no interest to go to that site. I'm sure you'll read it here).
Have a nice day.

Maz