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TeaEarlGreyHot
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12 Jul 2010, 4:06 pm

StuartN wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
I didn't dredge the post up. The OP did.


I am sorry, I saw all those dates in July 2006 and completely missed the date on MrMark's post today, so my poor attempt at humour fell doubly flat.

In the olden days (and in museums), men's bodies were much appreciated and modelled with astonishing attention to detail (e.g. http://improbable.com/ig/2002/scrotal-asymmetry.pdf). Obviously it is less objectifying and demeaning because there is not a power imbalance, or association with states of vulnerability, so male totty-pictures can not be equated with female totty-pictures.


I realize that there are times in history where the male form was revered. I'm saying in today's society that is not the case. Specific emphasis is spent on one part and the rest is ignored, whereas women's bodies are exploited and ogled constantly. No, it's not generally an appreciation for the female form... it's objectification. Women are seen as the sum of their body parts and their value measured on that alone all the time.


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12 Jul 2010, 4:09 pm

donkey wrote:
ok i admire your enthusiasm, and welcome to wp, but i think your idea is a bit creepy, and you may been seen as a creep, other smay not but i think some may.





I agree....must we sexualize everything in this society?


Is there some need to sexualize developmental disorders now too?



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12 Jul 2010, 4:14 pm

StuartN wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
I never understood why women had to sell their bodies through photographs in order to 'raise money/awareness' for something.
Can't we just be respected enough to be listened to? Why do we have to be eye candy to be taken seriously?

I know you have dredged up a long-dormant, 4-year-old thread, but hey, why not resurrect it and get 12 fit-looking men with ASD to pose with their obsessions and not much else (all in a good cause, nothing creepy...)
I'm all for it! If such a calendar actually existed, it would definitely go on my wall. :D


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Horus
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12 Jul 2010, 4:15 pm

TheOrangeMage wrote:
I do have to say this is a hilarious idea, but I think more people would agree with it if the aim was not to be sexy, but to be cute, pretty, or natural.



Ummm....all of those things are considered extremely sexually appealing by millions of men.


Ask your average heterosexual male pedophile...i'm sure they'll be glad to tell you how appealing the "cute", "pretty" and "natural" little girls are.



TeaEarlGreyHot
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12 Jul 2010, 4:15 pm

Horus wrote:
donkey wrote:
ok i admire your enthusiasm, and welcome to wp, but i think your idea is a bit creepy, and you may been seen as a creep, other smay not but i think some may.





I agree....must we sexualize everything in this society?


Is there some need to sexualize developmental disorders now too?


It's done with cancer, too. The number one cancer that kills women is skin cancer, yet the cancer that's everywhere to 'raise awareness' is breast cancer... a form of cancer that women rarely die from these days. Why? Boobs are sexy.


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TeaEarlGreyHot
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12 Jul 2010, 4:17 pm

Horus wrote:
TheOrangeMage wrote:
I do have to say this is a hilarious idea, but I think more people would agree with it if the aim was not to be sexy, but to be cute, pretty, or natural.



Ummm....all of those things are considered extremely sexually appealing by millions of men.


Ask your average heterosexual male pedophile...i'm sure they'll be glad to tell you how appealing the "cute", "pretty" and "natural" little girls are.


*covers daughter in a burlap sack*


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12 Jul 2010, 4:21 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
I realize that there are times in history where the male form was revered. I'm saying in today's society that is not the case. Specific emphasis is spent on one part and the rest is ignored, whereas women's bodies are exploited and ogled constantly. No, it's not generally an appreciation for the female form... it's objectification. Women are seen as the sum of their body parts and their value measured on that alone all the time.


Are you suggesting that MrMark was going to objectify 12 aspie girls? What he said was:

MrMark wrote:
getting 12 aspie girls to pose for a photo calendar. ... I’m not talking about nudes, .. I’m talking about glamour shots with props appropriate to the person’s interests and a short bio. A geek with her computer, a gamer with her console, a librarian with her books. ... Proceeds could go to autism research.


So, nothing creepy at all ("getting 12 aspie girls", "a geek with her computer"?) and all in a good cause. (I always love the little semantic clarifications, like "glamour" instead of totty-pics, or "erotica" instead of porn).

And he was equality-minded (although he didn't dwell on the nudie-boys so much):

MrMark wrote:
The guys could do one too.



TeaEarlGreyHot
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12 Jul 2010, 4:23 pm

StuartN wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
I realize that there are times in history where the male form was revered. I'm saying in today's society that is not the case. Specific emphasis is spent on one part and the rest is ignored, whereas women's bodies are exploited and ogled constantly. No, it's not generally an appreciation for the female form... it's objectification. Women are seen as the sum of their body parts and their value measured on that alone all the time.


Are you suggesting that MrMark was going to objectify 12 aspie girls? What he said was:

MrMark wrote:
getting 12 aspie girls to pose for a photo calendar. ... I’m not talking about nudes, .. I’m talking about glamour shots with props appropriate to the person’s interests and a short bio. A geek with her computer, a gamer with her console, a librarian with her books. ... Proceeds could go to autism research.


So, nothing creepy at all ("getting 12 aspie girls", "a geek with her computer"?) and all in a good cause. (I always love the little semantic clarifications, like "glamour" instead of totty-pics, or "erotica" instead of porn).

And he was equality-minded (although he didn't dwell on the nudie-boys so much):

MrMark wrote:
The guys could do one too.


No, that's not at all what I was saying. I just don't understand the purpose of such projects.


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12 Jul 2010, 4:29 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
Horus wrote:
....must we sexualize everything in this society?


Is there some need to sexualize developmental disorders now too?


It's done with cancer, too. The number one cancer that kills women is skin cancer, yet the cancer that's everywhere to 'raise awareness' is breast cancer... a form of cancer that women rarely die from these days. Why? Boobs are sexy.

"Lung cancer kills more women than any other cancer"
http://www.womenfitness.net/ca_survey_cancer_killer.htm
"A medical consultant has disclosed that cervical cancer has become the number one killer of women in [Zambia]"
http://www.lusakatimes.com/?p=1863
"Lung Cancer Top Cancer Killer Of Women"
http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/ ... r-of-women
Yes, we're all obsessed with breasts and skin.


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12 Jul 2010, 4:29 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
No, that's not at all what I was saying. I just don't understand the purpose of such projects.


I was agreeing with you, but obviously not at all clearly. I do think the project's aims are extremely dubious.



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12 Jul 2010, 4:32 pm

MrMark wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
Horus wrote:
....must we sexualize everything in this society?


Is there some need to sexualize developmental disorders now too?


It's done with cancer, too. The number one cancer that kills women is skin cancer, yet the cancer that's everywhere to 'raise awareness' is breast cancer... a form of cancer that women rarely die from these days. Why? Boobs are sexy.

"Lung cancer kills more women than any other cancer"
http://www.womenfitness.net/ca_survey_cancer_killer.htm
"A medical consultant has disclosed that cervical cancer has become the number one killer of women in [Zambia]"
http://www.lusakatimes.com/?p=1863
"Lung Cancer Top Cancer Killer Of Women"
http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/ ... r-of-women
Yes, we're all obsessed with breasts and skin.


Oh... right. It is lung cancer. My bad. lol


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TeaEarlGreyHot
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12 Jul 2010, 4:33 pm

StuartN wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
No, that's not at all what I was saying. I just don't understand the purpose of such projects.


I was agreeing with you, but obviously not at all clearly. I do think the project's aims are extremely dubious.


Oh, okay. lol


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12 Jul 2010, 4:51 pm

peebo wrote:
drummer_girl wrote:
... i noticed the picture of the man in the 1st post... and i noticed him say 12 aspie GIRLs.... pervert or what??


:lol:



i must say i am surprised there are people on this site who would even consider taking part in such crass banality.



I am too and i'm the furthest thing from a prude. There is nothing that goes on between consenting adults which I would define as immoral IN THE SENSE that things like this are often deemed immoral. I am not a religious person for one thing (i'm quite anti-theistic in fact) and i've engaged in plenty of things which would make this calender look positively puritanical in comparison. But there is a time and place for everything and I feel such a calender would be far OUT OF PLACE.

I just see this as an infantile, pointless and stupid idea with no greater merit than movies like "Porky's". Furthermore, it's an insulting mockery of a very real neurological disorder which DOES cause a considerable amount of suffering to many who have it and their families.


It's rather presumptuous to make objective statements about Asperger's syndrome irrespective of whether those statements are positive or negative. That's sort of what the OP is attempting to do with his suggestion about this calender. He is trying to portray an image of Asperger's which just isn't anything close to a reality for millions with AS.


Sorry....neurological disorders are neither a laughing or "sexy" matter for millions of those who live with them.



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12 Jul 2010, 5:02 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
Horus wrote:
donkey wrote:
ok i admire your enthusiasm, and welcome to wp, but i think your idea is a bit creepy, and you may been seen as a creep, other smay not but i think some may.





I agree....must we sexualize everything in this society?


Is there some need to sexualize developmental disorders now too?


It's done with cancer, too. The number one cancer that kills women is skin cancer, yet the cancer that's everywhere to 'raise awareness' is breast cancer... a form of cancer that women rarely die from these days. Why? Boobs are sexy.



I am aware of that....it's done with EVERYTHING and that's the problem. I personally think it's a sad commentary on this society. Why must humans insist upon constantly wallowing with the apes? Must this base, vulgar, hedonistic nihilism worm it's way into everything? Must we always appeal to the most animalistic and crude instincts in humans in order to get them to become aware of anything? There is something profoundly disturbing about a society which even sexualizes and thus, trivializes, human suffering. I realize that plenty of people with AS don't feel they suffer from it in any appreciable way. But that's simply not the case with everyone.

We might as well have a "girls who survived auschwitz" calender.



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12 Jul 2010, 5:32 pm

Horus wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
Horus wrote:
donkey wrote:
ok i admire your enthusiasm, and welcome to wp, but i think your idea is a bit creepy, and you may been seen as a creep, other smay not but i think some may.





I agree....must we sexualize everything in this society?


Is there some need to sexualize developmental disorders now too?


It's done with cancer, too. The number one cancer that kills women is skin cancer, yet the cancer that's everywhere to 'raise awareness' is breast cancer... a form of cancer that women rarely die from these days. Why? Boobs are sexy.



I am aware of that....it's done with EVERYTHING and that's the problem. I personally think it's a sad commentary on this society. Why must humans insist upon constantly wallowing with the apes? Must this base, vulgar, hedonistic nihilism worm it's way into everything? Must we always appeal to the most animalistic and crude instincts in humans in order to get them to become aware of anything? There is something profoundly disturbing about a society which even sexualizes and thus, trivializes, human suffering. I realize that plenty of people with AS don't feel they suffer from it in any appreciable way. But that's simply not the case with everyone.

We might as well have a "girls who survived auschwitz" calender.


You were able to say this so much better than I was.


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12 Jul 2010, 6:20 pm

Horus wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
Horus wrote:
....must we sexualize everything in this society?


Is there some need to sexualize developmental disorders now too?


It's done with cancer, too. The number one cancer that kills women is skin cancer, yet the cancer that's everywhere to 'raise awareness' is breast cancer... a form of cancer that women rarely die from these days. Why? Boobs are sexy.



I am aware of that....it's done with EVERYTHING and that's the problem. I personally think it's a sad commentary on this society. Why must humans insist upon constantly wallowing with the apes? Must this base, vulgar, hedonistic nihilism worm it's way into everything? Must we always appeal to the most animalistic and crude instincts in humans in order to get them to become aware of anything? There is something profoundly disturbing about a society which even sexualizes and thus, trivializes, human suffering. I realize that plenty of people with AS don't feel they suffer from it in any appreciable way. But that's simply not the case with everyone.

We might as well have a "girls who survived auschwitz" calender.

Sex has been used to sell since the 18th century. Seems to me to take advantage of the male libido. What would a "girls who survived auschwitz" calender be selling or promoting? Doesn't exactly strike me as an appropriate analogy.
Anyway, the calandar never got produced. The 'prudes' won out over the 'perverts.' Nobody's said anything new here that hasn't been said before in this thread. I posted the news item because I thought it would be of interest. I posted it here because I thought it was relevant, and there's some historical value to this discussion. I also posted it in Autism Politics, Activism, and Media Representation, where it hasn't generated nearly as much interest.
Sex sells.


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