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To be brutally honest.

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Stoek
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23 Jan 2013, 12:18 pm

nessa238 wrote:
whirlingmind wrote:
Good point. In the grand scheme of things, who knows the state of mind of any poster and if they are trying to reach out to people, even if they don't appear suicidal or desperate from their post it doesn't mean they are not, then why complain about it?


This relentless insistence on positivity is very dangerous in my opinion - it's what can lead people to suicide as they feel they can't put on a positive act any more and their friends often aren't there to provide any support as they will often be of this 'must be positive at all times' mindset and won't relate to a person who is unhappy.

People seem to back away when a person has depression and that's the worst thing you can do as it's when a person needs support the most!


I've said this several times in this thread myself, I do intend to force wishful thinking, but one does not need to be wishful, to simply regulate their negativity.

Again if your not reading my posts in my thread, I can only think your here to troll or dump on someone for trying to spread a proactive message, it would be a very logical assumption.



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23 Jan 2013, 12:20 pm

Stoek wrote:
nessa238 wrote:

Also, I'd rather a person posted hundreds of negative posts anywhere they liked on WP if it prevented them committing suicide.

Support is one of the main aims of the site.

it was pointed out that people posting in the Haven didn't get many replies so maybe it's for this very reason that people are more likely to post on the General Autism forum ie they know there's more likelihood of a reply on there.

But this is where the logic falls apart.
1.First off you by your own admission admit that the problem with the haven is no one actually posts there.
Which means a crucial service is being sidelined, by inappropriate posting.
2.Second off you mention suicide, and have a simplistic definition for reaching for help. The reality is from a clinical perspective this site is used more for dragging people down for reaching out.
I'm sorry but you guys simply know nothing of suicide if you think, having haven posts in the general form is helpful.
The reality is many of you have text book cases of poor morale.
Morale is contagious, and it's damaging effects cannot be denied.
Again your arguments are weak at best.
At no point did I say I was against venting.
But again it's so obviously 15-1 to one in this thread, and due to poor reading comprehension or likely liberal usage of quotes, have people here seemed to think I'm against posting negativity.
I simply do not think it should dominate the main page in the manor it does currently.
The simple responses to my thread show the typical tactics that are used by a group of twenty or so posters in this thread to hijack an entire message board.

1. he did not say that and that is false, people do actually post there.
2. How do you know?


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Stoek
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23 Jan 2013, 12:23 pm

deltafunction wrote:
answeraspergers wrote:
@ nessa – there is a clear distinction between someone making a negative post in a new thread to the negative burning of others threads that occurs here. One fits into the term “support” the other quite clearly does not.


Agreed... I don't think that anyone here minds posts asking for support or help. It's just the countless responses people make that seem to be stuck in a negative mindset.

I'm just bothered by those people who constantly try to bring others down who try to look on the bright side with their "logical" complaints of how we can't change our situation, NTs suck, being positive is stupid, etc.


Agreed, people here take zero accountability for there posts. They use the clause that it might help themselves, and use zero thought on how it might effect others.

It's self focused mindset, and I'm not attacking that, I simply request that people make some effort to consider how there actions might effect others.



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23 Jan 2013, 12:26 pm

nessa238 wrote:

Ok

The OP mentioned having a friend who committed suicide

So my argument would be how did the OP's insistence on focusing on the positive help their friend?


This just shows a massive leap of insensitivity on multiple levels.

To the post where I think you really should delete all your posts in this thread.

I never said for the record, that I was helping my friend.

I mentioned it, because I clearly stated an important time, when the use of the haven was needed for my mental health.


And lets just pretend were talking about my friend here, I'm not engaging in that but lets pretend, the things she'd say about posters on here, I dare not paraphrase.



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23 Jan 2013, 12:27 pm

See, now I feel like I've been brought down by the negativity in this thread :(

Why do I submit myself to torture by trying to be positive on this site



Stoek
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23 Jan 2013, 12:29 pm

nessa238 wrote:
[

Also, I'd be interested to see an example of a thread where this bringing others down behaviour is occurring


Alright this is the type of post where the people on your side in this thread should be asking you to stop posting.


This site without a doubt, can be harmful for many people on this site.

In and of itself, the assertion that this site can be toxic for ones mental health, is an important breakthrough in a posters life.

Yet your denial of this is exactly the kind of collateral negativity that I'm talking about.

I hate to say it like this but it is very close to fact, if you don't see this, you might wanna learn to improve your understanding of others that's all I can say.



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23 Jan 2013, 12:38 pm

Yes.. nessa I was trying to be nice but it feels like you were being a bit unfair with how you treated me. It was as if you were trying to trip me up to get me to say something that you can attack. That's not fair and that's exactly the kind of behaviour that I am talking about, trying to bring others down. And in the end, I don't understand your point because you said that you are positive sometimes! No disrespect, just saying my opinion and giving you an example of what brings me down about this place.

Oh well :( I tried to be positive on a thread about being positive and it didn't work



nessa238
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23 Jan 2013, 12:39 pm

Stoek wrote:
nessa238 wrote:

Ok

The OP mentioned having a friend who committed suicide

So my argument would be how did the OP's insistence on focusing on the positive help their friend?


This just shows a massive leap of insensitivity on multiple levels.

To the post where I think you really should delete all your posts in this thread.

I never said for the record, that I was helping my friend.

I mentioned it, because I clearly stated an important time, when the use of the haven was needed for my mental health.


And lets just pretend were talking about my friend here, I'm not engaging in that but lets pretend, the things she'd say about posters on here, I dare not paraphrase.


"I never said for the record, that I was helping my friend."

Why were't you?



nessa238
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23 Jan 2013, 12:40 pm

Stoek wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
[

Also, I'd be interested to see an example of a thread where this bringing others down behaviour is occurring


Alright this is the type of post where the people on your side in this thread should be asking you to stop posting.


This site without a doubt, can be harmful for many people on this site.

In and of itself, the assertion that this site can be toxic for ones mental health, is an important breakthrough in a posters life.

Yet your denial of this is exactly the kind of collateral negativity that I'm talking about.

I hate to say it like this but it is very close to fact, if you don't see this, you might wanna learn to improve your understanding of others that's all I can say.


I'd say the same back to you

And if one of my friends felt suicidal I'd help them, otherwise I wouldn't define myself as a friend



nessa238
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23 Jan 2013, 12:42 pm

deltafunction wrote:
Yes.. nessa I was trying to be nice but it feels like you were being a bit unfair with how you treated me. It was as if you were trying to trip me up to get me to say something that you can attack. That's not fair and that's exactly the kind of behaviour that I am talking about, trying to bring others down. And in the end, I don't understand your point because you said that you are positive sometimes! No disrespect, just saying my opinion and giving you an example of what brings me down about this place.

Oh well :( I tried to be positive on a thread about being positive and it didn't work


No I asked for an example to illustrate the point you were making so I could see if the behaviour that was causing you a problem was something I do myself - ie I wanted to learn from what you were telling us, but to do that I need all the relevant information



Last edited by nessa238 on 23 Jan 2013, 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Stoek
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23 Jan 2013, 12:44 pm

EstherJ wrote:
I'm not going to read all 17 pages so forgive me if I post something someone else has said, but:

I use this forum for three things:

- A place where my struggles, quirks, weirdness, etc, are understood, and to give that understanding to others.
- A place to get information and give it.
- A place to share my disappointments and my successes.

I really have no reason to feel that the majority of people here aren't doing the same thing.

It's the minority that complain, and usually it's not about themselves. Though I do appreciate the OP for voicing their opinion.
It has been something I have wondered myself, but then I think:

Hey, someone has to have somewhere where they can just be themselves!

I agree that this is a shared place, which is why I'm not speaking from my personal perspective.

I'm speaking as someone who seems the dominance of the board for one singular issue which is venting frustrations and problems.

I do believe there is a place for it as I said numerous times.

However if you are deciding to vent you should acknowledge so and post in the haven.

Or at least refrain from venting in threads that are not indicated for that action.

The problem is people do not see a problem for venting regardless of the circumstances. This is damaging to the community.

We can be considered the minority here, but the reality is that is because there is no room for people, that want objective discussion.

Positivity is used because it's the simplest term, the reality is we want a place where emotional baggage isn't being dropped on people who are already burdened with their own such issues.



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23 Jan 2013, 12:44 pm

Oh ok, thanks for the clarification :)



nessa238
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23 Jan 2013, 12:47 pm

deltafunction wrote:
Oh ok, thanks for the clarification :)


I am the first person to accept a criticism if it's valid, hence I ask for all the data so I can see exactly what a person is referring to.



Stoek
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23 Jan 2013, 12:47 pm

Delphiki wrote:
1. he did not say that and that is false, people do actually post there.
2. How do you know?


Obviously people post there if even I mentioned that I post their. What I meant was that the amount is much lower than on general.

How do I know quite frankly your just gonna have to take my word on this.

It's basic pysch, and I'm not a trained mental health professional so I am not gonna be able to educate you on this.

All I can say is reaching for help, can often be attention seek, dragging down the viewer etc. It's not a simple scenario and it goes in many directions. However I can gaurentee you that it is a grave concern in the profession.



nessa238
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23 Jan 2013, 12:48 pm

Stoek wrote:
EstherJ wrote:
I'm not going to read all 17 pages so forgive me if I post something someone else has said, but:

I use this forum for three things:

- A place where my struggles, quirks, weirdness, etc, are understood, and to give that understanding to others.
- A place to get information and give it.
- A place to share my disappointments and my successes.

I really have no reason to feel that the majority of people here aren't doing the same thing.

It's the minority that complain, and usually it's not about themselves. Though I do appreciate the OP for voicing their opinion.
It has been something I have wondered myself, but then I think:

Hey, someone has to have somewhere where they can just be themselves!

I agree that this is a shared place, which is why I'm not speaking from my personal perspective.

I'm speaking as someone who seems the dominance of the board for one singular issue which is venting frustrations and problems.

I do believe there is a place for it as I said numerous times.

However if you are deciding to vent you should acknowledge so and post in the haven.

Or at least refrain from venting in threads that are not indicated for that action.

The problem is people do not see a problem for venting regardless of the circumstances. This is damaging to the community.

We can be considered the minority here, but the reality is that is because there is no room for people, that want objective discussion.

Positivity is used because it's the simplest term, the reality is we want a place where emotional baggage isn't being dropped on people who are already burdened with their own such issues.


Yes I think we've got the measure of the situation now.

If a person feels in a depressed or negative mood, they should take themselves far away from you so as not to ruin your day but if on the other hand you feel depressed, people need to minister to your needs.

Message received.



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23 Jan 2013, 12:49 pm

nessa238 wrote:



"I never said for the record, that I was helping my friend."

Why were't you?
Because she was dead when I made the post in the haven, again why I am not bringing up this subject, if you have further questions start a thread in the haven and I'll be happy to answer to any questions which you may have.