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Do you still have much time for your creative endeavors once you finish work?

Have you ever told a client about your creative proclivities?

Hi kraftie.

One of the reasons the cleaning work is good for a creative person is that you can work fewer hours, yes. I had lots of time to write songs and play in the evenings locally.

But the fact is, I am never going to get to make my actual talents the thing that makes me my living. I tried all my life, and it's good to know when to get realistic.

So the cleaning is going to be what pays my bills, but that's my whole argument -- not everyone gets to do a job that is more to them than just paying the bills. A lot of people have to do whatever is going to pay them while it has nothing to do with what they're really good at. Because even being really good at something may never get recognized or pay you. I'm no Van Gogh or equivalent thereof, but he famously died having sold zero paintings except to his indulgent brother. It happens.

And that's why nurseangela is mistaken about a job defining a person. We can't all work at job that does anything close to defining us. I am not defined by cleaning goddamn houses. And I'll punch the person who tries to tell me I am, seriously.

I bet you have a lovely voice, Birdie--melodious, harmonious, etc.

Most creative people, like you said, have jobs which just pay the bills. I've known a few who were temporary office workers by day, torch song artists by night.

I'm a clerk--I'm not defined by being a clerk.

Have you ever posted your lyrics within the Literature Subforum here?

Thank you for getting what I'm saying -- yes, most creative people have day jobs that are strictly to pay the bills. In fact even for just "people," not just creative people, there's a statistic that says something like as much as 80% of people are working jobs that have nothing to do with anything they actually like, are interested in or are even necessarily that good at, lol. They just need to make a living and whatever it is they found to do is the most tolerable, but the only thing they like about it is a paycheck, stability and security.

Sadly this is just a reality of the working world, and it tends to be true of most people in paid work at all of any kind.

Doctors, maybe nurses, TV presenters, successful creative people, maybe EVEN some accountants, might be doing something they actually would do even if they weren't being paid. Something that is their passion and they actually wanted to do because it interests them.

But most people can't have that wish. It's not even mathematically possible.

I try to have other irons in the fire -- I'm trying to launch an online business, and I would love for that to become my source of income. It is closer to things that actually interest me. But it's not going very well. I keep trying anyway -- and one of the reasons why is because I'm so sick of my cleaning work "defining" me in other people's eyes. I'm having real problems with it and I'm sick and tired of being judged for it.

Just the other week a person I met for the first time asked me what I do for a living, and I hated having to tell him because I just KNEW he was going to form all kinds of opinions based on nothing. I made sure to follow up the information by telling him I also do creative things and I mentioned my other pursuits. But even that felt kind of desperate and defensive. I'm sick of living that way.

Hence my strong reaction to some of the completely mistaken beliefs on this subject.

I'm also really struggling with online interactions lately. I'm getting tired of misunderstandings, disagreements, I'm sick of other people's opinions and their "debating" with mine, I'm really not having a great time lately and I should probably take a break. I post here and on another couple of places that are not autism related but I'm getting pissed off on all of them. I just get tired of people trying to challenge things I know to be true, even my own experiences.

This is where non-verbal clues are very important. I've had people almost foam in the mouth if I didn't make my occupation info promptly forthcoming. Those are hardcore socioeconomic selectors. There are subtler selectors who will just nudge you here and there till you answer, and then as you say, those that are just trying to find an "acceptable" topic that you may be interested in talking about. These latter ones will be ok and maybe even relieved if you change the subject. They won't look upset if you don't provide the info and clearly.

It's all a bit complex. If they see you in rags or in the line at the Salvation Army and ask you what you do for a living, then they're definitely not just trying to make friendly conversation on a topic you may enjoy talking about. Whereas if you two are dining on pheasant and champagne at the same table at a gala dinner for volunteer sponsors of a famous opera theater and they ask you what you do for a living, the chances they're trying to make conversation on a topic you may enjoy talking about are a lot bigger. This is because your high socioeconomic level is already known to them, from the mere fact of your being invited there.

I've no idea if I've just written something totally obvious to everyone... It's just that for me it was a huge discovery, in my late forties.

I once listened to a conversation that amazed me.

I was overhearing the story of someone had bought a house in this very expensive neighborhood in Manhattan. The person who bought the house began to give big parties and all sorts of people were there: celebrities and very wealthy people. "And it seemed this new person in the neighborhood was really somebody, but then all the money was suddenly gone and it turned out they were nobody after all!"

What a strange way to filter reality.

Once again, your post describes me word by word.

This thread made me feel... strangely normal. Perhaps I'm not as socially blind as I thought after all.