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What is the purpose of the bolded words in your post?

I was under the impression that you thought Autistic invovlement in Autism Speaks organization is a bad thing for autistic people and that you were working to help autistic people via some other alternative and better way. Sorry if I was wrong.

And yet you keep trading posts with me.

You have a very strident point of view, but a remarkable unwillingness to put it forth in a manner that would allow scrutiny. This suggests either astonishing arrogance, or a significant lack of self assurance. Paradoxically, the two are often connected.

Present a lucid argument without calling those that disagree gullible, without suggesting the effort is pointless, and dropping some of the other pretentiousness that you have displayed. Something might be learned. Maybe even by me.

Making sure you noticed the emphasis to clarify my meaning.



No your first impression is correct.

I know my limitations, I would NEVER aspire to that one.

I still do not understand your meaning or what the emphasis is supposed to mean. Sorry if I am slow but I need it spelled out.

If I am correct then please enlighten me with details of your way and how your way affects the Autistic Community as I have no ties with anyone yet and am seeking.

Then we are at an impasse, because I definitely cannot think of a clearer way to explain it.

I am very confused....

1. You say that I am doing something gravely wrong by associating with Autism Speaks.
2. You say that you have a much better way and have been succesful at this other way for many years.
3. When I ask you for some details or direction/help you tell me there is none you can offer me and that you are not Moses so cannot help others either
4. You get offended that I might think you are a troll

Can someone please help me understand this exchange? I really am just trying to learn if there is something to learn here.

Last edited by kfisherx on 16 May 2011, 1:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Facetious to the last.

You cannot aspire to that which you hold in contempt. And using a smilie does not mask your contempt half as well as you think.

Now you are trying to twist everything I have said, fortunately, not very well:

I said (to put it as briefly as possible) that "Autism Speaks" only exploit us and as a result make our live far harder that they need to be.

I do not believe I have commented on your association with "Autism Speaks" at all, I was not even aware that you have admitted one.



I said (again, as briefly as possible) that the only way forward, and the only way real gains are are made, for Autistics is independent of and in opposition to "Autism Speaks" and associates and affiliates and that is what I am dedicated to working toward.

I never bore people by boasting of my own personal achievements..."success" is a subjective thing anyway.



I told you that you already seem to be in the best place to get what you want from life and I had nothing to add and the "Moses" comment was in response to the pompous tones of:


Which I found preposterous, way over the top, and impossible to relate to



I couldn't care less what you think of me. But, in truth I do not believe for one minute that you are stupid enough to think I am a troll. I think you would like me to get offended, and that is why you keep finding excuses to say it.

Good heavens, you mistake me. I can assure you that any impression I gave of masking my contempt was unintentional.

Zeraeph - I appreciate your passion. It's that kind of passion that makes things happen, its what preceeds change. I think here, maybe, your passion is overriding one very basic tentant. I think everyone here wants the same thing. I hope you don't lose sight of that. We all may not agree on how to get there or with whom we associate or our methods of bringing about that change but we all have the same goal.

That said - I have not been able to follow your point in any cohesive manner. You have used words like 'stupid' and 'arrogant' bordering on personal insults while never really getting there. I have no problem with passion but some of your posts have been incredibly aggressive in a non productive manner. This is why I stepped away from answering your last post to me. I have no desire to defend myself personally - I can argue my point of view til I'm blue in the face but once the conversation degrades into aggression for aggressions sake, the conversation is over.

Several times, people have asked you to explain your comments. This is a support forum for people known for difficulty in communicating. When kfisherx asked for clarification on the bolded words in your statement you relied with 'to emphasis my point'. It would be more helpful to EXPLAIN that point. That is what she was asking for. People aren't generally trying to be wise asses (except maybe for Wavefreak... ). They are asking for clarification because they do not understand your point and THEY WANT TO. I'm reading alot of frustration in this conversation that just doesn't need to be there. I think this is not only an important conversation but intriguing in it's depth. I'd like to see it continue but if it degrades into name calling its over.

We all have issues with making ourselves heard and understood clearly. It would do everyone well to keep that in mind and give each other the benefit of the doubt.

I think WaveFreak brought it up first. I think it has become a tribal phenonmenon, not unlike support for a football team; and more emotional in nature for some. It appears Zeraeph is only here to support her "team". She herself said she no longer comes to this site because the owner has become associated with the other "team".

It's not a matter of wanting each team to win for Autistic people; it's only a matter of one team beating the other team.

Of course you, yourself are a football player so you understand that analogy probably better than I do.

She dropped by saw what she thought might be opposition to her "team", and decided to support her "team".

Unfortunately this is not the NFL; it is organizations trying to help people.

First time, though, that I have seen anywhere, where someone stated they would be willing to die if they knew it would result in the end of Autism Speaks. In my opinion the statement that they are an "evil" organization is more reasonable that that opinion.

It is obvious though that some want to see positive change and there are elements that are open for positive change, and evidence that it is happening, but not fast enough for some. I personally see no problem with that.

And it is obvious that some are not even open to a suggestion of positive change, are against a "team", and will probably never see a benefit of the existence of the other team.

It is a rigid way of thinking, but just another characteristic of Autism that I think we all understand isn't easily changed.

So, I don't hold it against her as an individual, in anyway, on a personal level.

Now to put it in more black and white terms:

There are no improvements needed for what she supports. That can't be proven or disproven since she is not willing to comment on what it is that is positive that she supports.

It is clear that she supports Autism Speaks going away, no matter what benefit they offer to Autistics, and she is not open to the prospect of positive change.

However, the value of the conversation is others can read and decide for themselves what is reasonable and not reasonable about the facts that are presented.

I am still very interested in knowing specifically what it is that she supports for Autistic people. I think that opinion would be a valuable one for others to hear. But, none of us can influence her to share that with everyone else that is reading the discussion.

Maybe the team analogy isn't so far off.

Those trying to work with Autism Speaks and change their point of view are the offense.
Those fighting against the policies of Autism Speaks they abhor are the defense.

We are very much still a team though. A strong offense and a strong defense is what makes a cohesive team. One side to push forward, the other to prevent the opposition's advance. We just can't lose sight of the fact that we are a team with the same end goal.

I don't actually agree with you there.



Yeah, gotta admit, you have me there...telling someone they are "not stupid enough" for something and that "I am not arrogant enough" for something else WOULD be a bit wide of the mark if the intention was a personal insult.

...and whenever people try to twist facts to that extent I tend to find it impossible to focus on anything else they have to say...sorry...

I guess that would be one of my communication difficulties.

Last edited by Zeraeph on 16 May 2011, 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

So then you actually ARE contemptuous? I was giving you some benefit of the doubt. Well at least we agree on one thing.

You have that very wrong. I am far too Autistic to relate to group dynamics at all, let alone to identifying with a *team*...

For me it is all MUCH simpler than that, "Autism Speaks" exploit Autistics and damage their lives and their prospects, the only approach to that is to close "Autism Speaks" down for good and work sincerely for the good of Autistics despite them until you can.

Last edited by Zeraeph on 16 May 2011, 2:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.