It's confirmed: I must get undiagnosed: how?

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See, that's where we differ. My belief systems and values change all the time, so I do think DBT could be helpful for me. My mind is very pliable, and I have no confidence in my perception of anything at any point in time because I've so often been proven to be wrong.

As for the other stuff, I have been attacked, dismissed, and misread so much my entire life, that I just think that the argument about "labels" is too triggering, so I would just prefer if no one would mention it again in this thread.

This is what was done to you as a child right? You were not allowed to express your truth. It was threatening to the belief of your parents, bought down their "straw God" or whatever images it was by which they maintained themselves. They never did listen to you or try to discover what you were saying.

By the way I did not find your previous response to me at all out of line and was surprised to see what Marshall wrote, and to Marshall, these are just words here, so when you say to let Tyrion decide, you seem to be, besides subtly thingizing (objectifying) him, implying that these words people are writing are keeping him from deciding. That makes no real sense, and seems to me to be enabling. That might make me angry. Tyrion, if you are angry it is okay, but please do not take it out on me unless you have a legitimate reason, and this trigger stuff is the very thing DBT will give a new way to work with, to neutralize, but why wait till that day? This is the day now, that day in May.

And I have no problem with anyone discussing any kind of diagnosis. It is very fascinating and a good learning tool. You did not seem to really understand what I was saying which was more about the approach to inner healing being comprehensive, so factoring from both ends of the stick rather than being one dimensional.

What you just described here Marshall is very common anytime anyone with AS goes into therapy or even to see a psychologist. It happened when I went to one last - even though she specialised in ASD, she was still thinking implicitly from an NT perspective. Therapy was designed for NT's in the first place - so if you're going to find a decent therapist, you need to find one that first and foremost understands Asperger's intimately and can really adapt everything to that first. If someone tries to do CBT from an NT perspective and assumptions (which is exactly what your recount sounds like), such a thing would be useless and simply be extremely tiring for us, and get nowhere.

I agree on this one, also that the right diagnoses is sometimes very importand.
I got missdiagnosed with BPD, because I had a s#î% combination at this time.
I'm FtM-Transgender and mildly autistic (even my autistic friend needed 3 days in the beginning until she spoted it), still didn't have my name change and my surgery and came in the claused ward with high levels of claustrophobia. Well because I had "gender issues" and "freaked out" (claustrophobia) they thought I'm either delussional or have BPD. They didn't let me out for 14 days, eventhough according to the law they would have needed to let me go after 72 hours when they don't have the agreement from a judge to keep me longer (what they didn't). I didn't know any of that, noone explained it to me.

Because of my claustrophobia and my inability to explain my situation right at that time I ended up having PTSD afterwards. But they felt confinced that they are right with their theory and kept me two more years in their ambulant section. I was freaking out every time I came or was too scared to talk and was highly afraid to go to. But than I had to go to an expert because of me being Transgender who had to decide and he wrote in a 10 pages expert report about me that the psychiatry did "BS" and that I'm clearly Transgender. The next time I had to go there they kicked me out, mit PTSD got better and I got my surgery and my name change.
I still have trauma symptoms left from this time, but I'm confident that they'll also will go away after time, eventhough it's difficult. They kicked me out last august I think, so not that long ago.

I'm telling this to show what can happen when a person has the wrong diagnosis.

I agree on this one.
One therapist once told me, I would need more routine to solve my problems.
Doesn't work.
But for most therapists, even if they try, they'll always keep their NT-perspective.



Oh I forgot to mention, she also noticed in those testings that autistic have especially difficulties distinguishing fear and disgust. I have this too and didn't even know that befor. I have very low levels of disgust and mostly it looks like fear to me in another persons face.
But I learned it a bit to distinuish it better, but I had to teach it to myself after I found out.

How about for me? I have no idea if the autistic approach or the NT approach to DBT would be most helpful. I have done other therapy for Asperger's which was not only not helpful but also harmful, but it was a different sort of thing, so I don't really know.

sadly it's just about females:

BPD and ASD in females:
http://www.clinicalneuropsychiatry.org/ ... _hetta.pdf

Re diagnosis---this is how I see it---putting a framework around something can be helpful, of course, but the science of psychotherapy is such a soft science, not even much of a science, so very subjective and fraught with flaws that it is ultra iffy, and probably almost as much harm can be done as good. The thing, is just having someone listen to oneself and maybe present a few insights and ideas and point out a few things about oneself that it is hard to see by oneself can be very helpful, but in terms of really deep psychological disorder, getting help is kind of iffy. I would tend to beware. I am not really exactly anti-therapy---just would not encourage people to put too much faith and trust there.....

Theory is something else. Good theory can change the human brain really quite fast IFa person actually understand, IF it is not just a flat concept but rather multidimensional, but who is going to explain? Someone always (thinks/feels) he understands more, but not everyone understands the same. This is why inquiry is in order and it does require concentration. It is not always about me That is too flat. "Me" does not connect to everyone and everything. The emotional element is not there if a person 's theory of mind believes everyone is an exact mirror of himself. That is flat. It does not allow for the unique quality which connects to a person's inner sensitivity. The conscious use of language is the key to the transformation of the brain. By language a person can be touched. So if a person speaks and someone really listens, then it is like a mirror that reflects light, but not a mirror image.The light shines equally on each thing if there is no obstruction, but each thing is uniquely what it is and only ones inner self can accurately intuit the hidden meaning. There is a generic image but it is just a representation. All meaning comes from the mother, from being touched. Most infants have had this experience. People can become cut off, but it is possible to brought back to life. The thing to understand is that the possibility for the miraculous is never tomorrow. That is too far away.

It was interesting how it said that "absence of substance abuse and pronounced negative self-image" indicates co-morbid autism. However, my GAF--at 50--is closer to the NT BPD girls than it would be to the ASD ones. My substance abuse has been rare and sporadic and mostly consisted of abusing prescription medications, not hard drugs.

I thought it was interesting how the NT BPD patients had a much higher performance IQ whereas the autistic patients had a higher verbal IQ.

I notices this in general, that my NT friends with psychologica problems compensate a lot more with alcohol or nicotine as I do, eventhough when they don't have a real substance abuse problem. I compensate on the other hand a lot more with special interest what also has kind of an "addictive character", but a high number of autistics I know have a "negative self image", but I think it also has to do with co-morbid depression, but maybe it also has other reasons.

But in my case, my verbal IQ is not very high, but I also have HFA.

I'm not BPD, but I also had one suicide attempt in the past. Tony Attwood talks about it in one of his books. About sudden severe "depression" where suicide attemps happen and who also suddenly pass away afterwards. I deffinitly had that. That's who I came in the closed wrad back than in the first place. I became medications and reacted badly to them and there was also a lot of chaos going on at that time and suddenly I was "freaking out". I NEVER did something like this befor or afterwards. So I'm pretty convinced it's that what Tony Attwood describes, that sometimes happens in autistic people.

Behavioral Addiction is gaining notice as equivalent to substance abuse per neurological mechanism. I just posted an organized collection of some thoughts I have gained over the last couple of years, and a few of them focus on behavioral addiction as "an ironic" special interest of mine.

Also lots of stuff on androgyny and a broader gender spectrum. Among other things like Alexithymia.

http://katiemiaaghogday.blogspot.com/20 ... first.html

I think for me it isn't that my belief system isn't pliable as much as the being told I need to change in away that just doesn't seem possible (i.e. "changing my attitude") feels like an attack on me and I get defensive about it. I think it's really the fact that to me being told to change in a way that seems impossible feels like a way of accusing me of being defective. It doesn't matter what the intent was or how I supposedly misinterpreted, I get pissed at the therapist no matter what. I noticed in your posts that you do react badly to being told you are bad or wrong in some way. I think I did it a couple times myself, so I apologize. I've now read more on DBT and it seems like the total opposite approach in that they try to get you to change without starting from the position of telling you you are wrong or bad, even in a way that can be indirectly implied.


Understood.

I didn't think anything was that out of line but could tell that he was annoyed in that post and I could kind of see why. I just think it's kind of pointless to try and pry into him and be his therapist in public on the internet. He's uncomfortable talking about certain things in person and that is part of the reason he was getting inappropriate help. Talking on the internet and getting the appropriate testing bridged that gap and enabled him to figure out what he really needed. That's progress. I just think that at this point he has to work through things with someone in person, IMHO. I'm not saying to stop discussing on here though.

Anyways, I feel weird talking about him in the third person so I'm just going to drop it.

We're on a way different tape, you and I. The way I see it, a grown man such a Tyrion can speak for himself and tell people things for himself. Notice you didn't have any problem talking about me in the third person either-) and your mode of communication did encourage more cross-talking as it made it difficult to address what you were saying without engaging in it. Yes imo you (we) should feel weird talking about other people in the third person. It is a form of communication that does trigger a lot of negative emotions and is out and out diminishing and rude. I generally try to address people directly..I feel you rigged up the entire negative wiring of that interchange, and that is too bad, but at least it gives people (us) something to look at and work on in ourselves..

As far as being someone's therapist, that is what I kind of see you trying to do and also dealing in subtle dynamics of personality rather than ideas. I see your approach as weakening rather than strengthening. And re trying to work this or that out "directly" with a therapist, do you really know for sure what another person needs to do or not to do or how it all unfolds? It is always new and conditions will vary and opportunities arise in relationship to various ever emerging contexts.

Also, I did not pry into anyone. Any questions I have asked anyone are long and lovingly thought out and slow in coming, People are free to volunteer information or not at their own discretion, and in terms of participation by all members in general on this thread. I have seen an unfolding.

Personally I am here for inquiry, not to fix anyone, if I even could, so do not wrestle with a curtain.

I read through it and I think a therapist once talked to me in this DBT-manner and I don't know why but it made me totally agressive.
I'm more the "I need my freedom, don't interfere with my stuff" guy and DBT works different there.
I think it can be helpfull, I myself wanted to try it once, but like with every therapy it has to fit.

I apologize for the "we" comment. I was tired when I wrote that. I feel like crap now okay. Just post whatever you want to post and I'll shut up.