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hale_bopp
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02 May 2014, 7:13 pm

marshall wrote:
bleh12345 wrote:
People with autism who don't shower may not smell like in the situation above. To act like all they need to do is simply shower, though. is silly. Those people do not simply have a victim complex. They have legitimate problems that you all are failing to recognize in an effort to reinforce your view that humans have more control over things than what they do. Oh, if only this person JUST showered or stopped complaining, right? I mean, it's so simple, this person obviously must be not doing this very easy task on purpose at this point. Why, it's so easy, that this MUST be the reason! If you call people out on this, they tend to begin to say things like "Well, I never said it was EASY. I recognize this person has legitimate problems. *Insert some story about how you overcame something even though it was hard. which is just another variation of 'If I can do it, you can do it.'"

I think the fact that most are inclined to treat the problem of not showering due to severe sensory issues as something trivial is the problem. It might be that the benefit of increased self-esteem from smelling better makes washing worth it, even if it's extremely uncomfortable. But dismissing someone's issues as "silly" tends to kill any motivation to change.


I totally get what you mean. But the thread was not calling anyone's issues silly. It happened to me growing up. I wanted to punch my family for doing that to me. It was specifically targeting people with victim complex.



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02 May 2014, 7:14 pm

hale_bopp wrote:
I'm giving up here.
Clearly you need to state every single tiny thing or risk getting blown up with paragraphs.

I'm not here to argue the genetics of diabetes. The point was, if it's not the genetic type (which it wasn't, it was the one that develops due to diet), how the hell is it the doctors fault? Sweet Leaf you seem to just be wanting a fight now, as opposed to address the actual issue.

Thanks to those who actually *GET* what I mean.


I feel like I have been simply discussing the issue....if I am coming off as wanting to fight I can promise that is not my intention, so I am sorry if I am coming off that way. With my last post directed at you I was just trying to explain why people might be taking your post wrong....I mean even if you aren't trying to attack anyone sometimes certain wordings come off that way. Perhaps I am having the same issue without realizing it but I am honestly not trying to fight...I don't like conflict. I mean I honestly hope people can express their ideas here, find some common ground and realize sometimes we all get it wrong and might have to try and see things from different perspectives. I mean we have a whole mixture of people on the spectrum, potentially people off the spectrum and people with and without mental illnesses so this topic is likely to stir up some emotions and what not.


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hale_bopp
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02 May 2014, 7:18 pm

In regards to the guy 2 pages ago "Bleh" or something:

People with "Victim complex" are not really victims.
How is that victim blaming again?
Here you go again, assuming that I am talking about real victims. Can't you read? I states this very clearly a couple of pages ago.



Last edited by hale_bopp on 02 May 2014, 7:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Sweetleaf
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02 May 2014, 7:18 pm

hale_bopp wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
Taking the food industry into account in terms of packaging, ingredients, convenience, price etc. makes far too much sense. It's so much more reasonable to judge people as if their choices are unrestricted and free and they're just choosing poorly /sarcasm

That's meant as more general frustration about that particular topic.


Please. You don't need to spend a lot of money to eat properly. If you want another argument, open a new thread.


That might depend on what one considers eating properly....I cannot afford to eat properly in my opinion, I mean I can do my best to eat as healthy as possible but I cannot afford to rid myself of all the unhealthy things in my diet or I would starve. But that is probably a topic better fit for another thread...even so financial issues can be problematic when trying to eat properly. Also what one considers 'not a lot of money' varies....to me 50 bucks is a lot of money and that would not cover a shopping trip of all healthy food to last a week.


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Last edited by Sweetleaf on 02 May 2014, 7:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

League_Girl
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02 May 2014, 7:19 pm

I can't tell the difference between anxious and anxiety because whenever I would get anxious, I would get told I was having anxiety. What does it mean to be anxious without having anxiety? :?


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hale_bopp
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02 May 2014, 7:21 pm

OliveOilMom wrote:
marshall wrote:
My advice to people who prop themselves up by kicking people who are already down in the teeth is this. STFU if you don't want your skull caved in and your eyes ripped out of the socket some day.


I don't think her intention was to kick people when they are down. I think she's talking about people who actually do have options and the ability to change their circumstances even a little but refuse to because they are just eat up with the "I can't" mentality. An example is a poster that used to come on here who talked about his inability to get a girlfriend for several reasons and one of them was his lack of hygiene. Everybody advised him to shower but he just wouldn't because he has AS and he hates the sensation of it. Every time someone would give him a suggestion he had a reason why what they said wouldn't work. Showering is a simple thing to do, and as much as I literally hate to shower, I do it because if I don't I look terrible and smell bad. It takes ten minutes and can make a huge difference, but this guy just refused to do it and then kept on complaining because girls wouldn't talk to him.

Another example is a small faction of guys on here who feel like they are entitled to having a girlfriend. They will post about it and then get so angry about other people having relationships and keep complaining that it isn't fair, yet they refuse to take any advice about what they could do to be more attractive to women. They seem to completely overlook the fact that while yes, some guys have girls falling all over them and don't do anything to cause that, other guys have to work really hard at improving themselves and by doing so, they end up meeting a girl that becomes their girlfriend. I fully understand that they can't become Mr Suave Don Juan, but they seem to refuse to do anything at all to help themselves. Then they decide they are a victim of society or AS or women or whatever they want to blame.

It's like the guy who wouldn't shower. He only posted about it over and over and over again yet he couldn't take ten minutes to get in the shower and get clean, which would help his problem out a lot. It's also like the way people will label anything that offends them as "bullying". There is a difference between somebody being a general douchebag and someone bullying you. I've heard people say they were bullied when someone else insulted them one time, or when they weren't invited to something, or when someone didn't want to be their friend. That isn't bullying. Maybe they were bullied in the past and are overly sensitive now to things like that but they tend to see everything unpleasant as bullying, or someone having it out for them.

I complain an aweful lot, but I know what I have to do to fix my situation and I do try to do it. I can't fix everything, and yes my AS does make things harder for me a lot of times but I'm not society's victim because people may sometimes not like me or may be mean to me. I don't just complain and then sit back and wait for the entire world to change to suit me. That doesn't happen. We have to fit in with the world. I'm also aware that not everyone has the ability to do what I've done. I get that. However, that doesn't make them a victim.

Are there people who are victims? Yes! Most definately YES! Are there people so beaten down that they just can't see anything else and they truly feel like victims? YES! They need help, not being put down. But there are also so many people now who see everything as victimising them. It's because we live in a culture of entitlement. I'm not entitled to a relationship, but I am entitled to the opportunity to try and find one. I'm not entitled to a job, but I'm entitled to go out and apply for one. I'm not even entitled to food or healthcare but I am entitled to try and get those things. People who for legitimate reasons cannot support themselves should be taken care of by society, that's an unspoken pact pretty much, but people who can do for themselves but won't because their feelings are hurt, rather than having a true problem, diminish the true victims out there.


Thank you.
This certainly explains it better than me.

In regards to the shower guy. He does not have to shower, but he needs to accept that this isn't going to attract women. He did not, and continued to make threads every second day on it.

That is really annoying when people here were actually doing their best to make helpful suggestions to address the sensory issue. Not just alternatives to showering, but phone lines, addresses and contacts where he could get help to eventually try to address the sensory problem.

Whining, in this situation, gets the person nowhere. They make no progress. If it was someone we knew, we could drive them there. I have offered to do that to friends of mine that needed critical mental attention and were in no state to do it.

All people can do is give their advice. A few whiny threads - ok. Whiny threads from people who can actually try and do - ok. Whiny threads, over and over again from the same person, ignoring any help, are ok for a while. But people get sick of it.

I learned that the hard way in life.

Nowdays, I am advocate for doing, not whining over and over again when people actually try so many times then bash their head out of exshaustion.



Last edited by hale_bopp on 02 May 2014, 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

wozeree
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02 May 2014, 7:24 pm

League_Girl wrote:
I can't tell the difference between anxious and anxiety because whenever I would get anxious, I would get told I was having anxiety. What does it mean to be anxious without having anxiety? :?


I think they are the same thing.

Did you have your baby yet?



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02 May 2014, 7:25 pm

wozeree wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
I can't tell the difference between anxious and anxiety because whenever I would get anxious, I would get told I was having anxiety. What does it mean to be anxious without having anxiety? :?


I think they are the same thing.

Did you have your baby yet?


Not yet.


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02 May 2014, 7:26 pm

League_Girl wrote:
I can't tell the difference between anxious and anxiety because whenever I would get anxious, I would get told I was having anxiety. What does it mean to be anxious without having anxiety? :?


Everyone feels anxious sometimes, it is a natural human feeling....people get anxious over job interviews and various potential stressful situations which is natural. But if someone has an anxiety disorder it means they experience anxiety a lot more than the typical person and it causes them problems in functioning. I mean you've probably felt anxious...imagine if that was your default state much of the time, like constantly feeling that way for days, weeks or months.

Sort of the same issue with depression, everyone feels depressed...but having a depressive disorder means you feel like that so often it deeply interferes with your functioning...and its not always based on a reason someone would feel depressed. Like everything is good but you still feel like you have an empty void inside of you and can't feel the positive feelings you know you should be feeling.

Essentially all mental illnesses, are extremes of human behavior...like everyone feels anxious sometimes but not to the extent it constantly interferes with their life and functioning. With normal depression and anxiety that everyone experiences much of the time you can sort of push yourself through it and use willpower to sort of come out of it...but with having a mental illness its not so simple.


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bleh12345
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02 May 2014, 7:37 pm

hale_bopp wrote:
In regards to the guy 2 pages ago "Bleh" or something:

People with "Victim complex" are not really victims.
How is that victim blaming again?
Here you go again, assuming that I am talking about real victims. Can't you read? I states this very clearly a couple of pages ago.


Now you are just insulting me when you're the one who doesn't understand. I can read perfectly fine. You are being dismissive of actual problems and/or victims by claiming they merely have a victim complex. There is also victim blaming going on in this thread. Just because you SAY they aren't victims and/or legitimate problems does NOT mean you are correct. That's what people have been saying here. People are trivializing serious problems just because some others have been able to move past them.

I'm not assuming anything. A lot of you are being dismissive and invalidating, and you are the one assuming. You assume if someone just has acne or can't get a girlfriend that therefor it's not an actual problem and people need to stop whining about it. Because it doesn't bother YOU, it SHOULDN'T bother someone else. But it does, therefor you rationalize that as they must be faking some sort of suffering. What YOU don't get is that it's completely possible for people to experience the world differently than you. This happens all of the time in relation to emotional problems. Someone who is severely depressed and complaining about life is, OF COURSE, not going to accept "Oh, just do this or else your problems are your own fault". It's going to make them feel worse.

I'm SO GLAD you think you have the authority to decide who is a REAL victim or not. We should totally just take your word for it and not criticize your views at all, right?



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02 May 2014, 7:44 pm

I most likely worded the topic pooly. I still stand by what I said a few posts up regarding the serial whiners and frustration as all attempts to help are dismissed. That is actually what this thread was supposed to be about.



Last edited by hale_bopp on 02 May 2014, 7:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bleh12345
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02 May 2014, 7:47 pm

hale_bopp wrote:
In regards to the shower guy. He does not have to shower, but he needs to accept that this isn't going to attract women. He did not, and continued to make threads every second day on it.


He doesn't "need" to do anything. What you think is helpful might not be. In reality, it's true that he can't (by can't I mean it's not realistic) expect it to attract women. It doesn't mean he will. Even if he doesn't accept that, it still doesn't invalidate his problem. People begin to blame him for his own misery and act like it's a trivial issue when they realize he won't accept their "helpful" advice. All I'm saying is in REALITY, things are more complicated. It's not necessarily about blame anymore. It's not just about him, and it's not just about society. There are many sides to every problem.

Also, being mean and invalidating to someone with a victim complex will make them regress into being more of a victim. It's literally not helping. It becomes a cycle where people get mad, blame them, they feel victimized again, people are once again angry, so on. It's funny watching it happen sometimes. Tough love advocates are extremely oblivious how their own role helps perpetrate a victim mentality.



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02 May 2014, 7:50 pm

bleh12345 wrote:
hale_bopp wrote:
In regards to the shower guy. He does not have to shower, but he needs to accept that this isn't going to attract women. He did not, and continued to make threads every second day on it.


He doesn't "need" to do anything. What you think is helpful might not be. In reality, it's true that he can't (by can't I mean it's not realistic) expect it to attract women. It doesn't mean he will. Even if he doesn't accept that, it still doesn't invalidate his problem. People begin to blame him for his own misery and act like it's a trivial issue when they realize he won't accept their "helpful" advice. All I'm saying is in REALITY, things are more complicated. It's not necessarily about blame anymore. It's not just about him, and it's not just about society. There are many sides to every problem.


He does "need" to do one thing. He needs to accept people are going to get sick of trying to give him help and or advice on here after they see the 10th thread on the same thing, and expect frustrated replies in the thread.



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02 May 2014, 7:51 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
I can't tell the difference between anxious and anxiety because whenever I would get anxious, I would get told I was having anxiety. What does it mean to be anxious without having anxiety? :?


Everyone feels anxious sometimes, it is a natural human feeling....people get anxious over job interviews and various potential stressful situations which is natural. But if someone has an anxiety disorder it means they experience anxiety a lot more than the typical person and it causes them problems in functioning. I mean you've probably felt anxious...imagine if that was your default state much of the time, like constantly feeling that way for days, weeks or months.

Sort of the same issue with depression, everyone feels depressed...but having a depressive disorder means you feel like that so often it deeply interferes with your functioning...and its not always based on a reason someone would feel depressed. Like everything is good but you still feel like you have an empty void inside of you and can't feel the positive feelings you know you should be feeling.

Essentially all mental illnesses, are extremes of human behavior...like everyone feels anxious sometimes but not to the extent it constantly interferes with their life and functioning. With normal depression and anxiety that everyone experiences much of the time you can sort of push yourself through it and use willpower to sort of come out of it...but with having a mental illness its not so simple.



I do have an anxiety disorder and I have questioned it myself because I can't relate to other people with it. I wonder if what I am feeling is actually normal than a disorder. I guess the difference is I get it too much while everyone else doesn't get it as much as I do and they only have it in certain situations. My anxiety was real bad in my teens and then it got better. My anxiety has always came and went but yet I was on pills for it at age 15 and they helped. I don't fit into any anxiety disorder category but yet OCD is considered one.


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02 May 2014, 7:53 pm

Well, if this was just a miscommunication and you truly didn't mean how you seemed to be wording things, then you don't have to pay attention to half of what I said. :lol:

I, too, can have trouble wording what I actually mean. I don't think I did here, but one of the reasons this started to upset me so much is because NTs told me the same exact things that are being advocated here. I just see far too many grey areas to really put full blame on one person or another most of the time.

Being told that you can do something but you just have the "I can't" attitude can lead to more frustration. Pretty much you try, but you fail, and then you blame yourself because you figure well, people tell you that you CAN do it, but here you can't. So, the problem must be YOU. In that, you can regress into depression.

If this helps anyone: How I helped myself was learning to accept my emotions and thoughts. They are mine, and they are not bad. If I feel like complaining, I can. I let myself have "pity parties" and I don't feel guilty that I'm "wallowing" in depression like others have told me. It has resulted in drastic improvement of my life. I pretty much made a deal with my mind to accept me exactly as I am.



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02 May 2014, 7:56 pm

hale_bopp wrote:
bleh12345 wrote:
hale_bopp wrote:
In regards to the shower guy. He does not have to shower, but he needs to accept that this isn't going to attract women. He did not, and continued to make threads every second day on it.


He doesn't "need" to do anything. What you think is helpful might not be. In reality, it's true that he can't (by can't I mean it's not realistic) expect it to attract women. It doesn't mean he will. Even if he doesn't accept that, it still doesn't invalidate his problem. People begin to blame him for his own misery and act like it's a trivial issue when they realize he won't accept their "helpful" advice. All I'm saying is in REALITY, things are more complicated. It's not necessarily about blame anymore. It's not just about him, and it's not just about society. There are many sides to every problem.


He does "need" to do one thing. He needs to accept people are going to get sick of trying to give him help and or advice on here after they see the 10th thread on the same thing, and expect frustrated replies in the thread.


But we have to accept that he may not accept that. It goes both ways. If people are so frustrated over a person that does that, they are enabling it by doing this "tough love" act. Not only that, but in the end, you will be the one frustrated, right? Also, remember: unless people ask for advice, they generally just want to be listened to. As in, they want to be told "It'll be OK, buddy" or something similar. This can actually build confidence over time and motivate. I have a rule usually: If I offer advice, don't be mad if people don't take it.