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Substitute speech - hardest aspect of the NT world?

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elancee
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19 Jun 2009, 5:52 pm

marshall wrote:
Fascinating. Do you think "let's do lunch" is a sort of corporate culture variant of "see you later"? Maybe "see you later" is seen as too terse (i.e. not smarmy enough) so they had to replace it with some other formally pleasant sounding but disingenuous phrase.


"Not smarmy enough." I love it. :thumright:



Magneto
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20 Jun 2009, 5:40 am

marshall wrote:
Magneto wrote:
marshall wrote:
Magneto wrote:
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That's my interpretation of what she was probably thinking. NT's have a habit of making too many assumptions and then assuming that everyone will make the same assumptions as they do.

Surely that is demonstrative of lacking a Theory of Mind, as she is assuming that them other person will have the same thought proccesses as she does? Could it be that Aspies and Auties develop it later, but when we do it's a lot more advanced?

No. I think NT's often use the quick-and-sloppy "intuitive" version of ToM that gets the job done in some but not all settings. Because thinking about someone else's needs/desires comes as a natural habit to NT's they don't often actively observe their own thought processes with skepticism and critical analysis. Their ToM fails when they start projecting rather than using their intellect to analyze the situation in a self-honest way.

But still, just because all the swans you've seen are white it doesn't mean they all are. Especially if you've heard from reputable sources that there are lots of black swans out there.

They seem to be so used to it working that they deny it ever can't. So they don't really use ToM, it's just it goes undetected because most people think like they do. Aspies don't have that excuse, even among ourselves.

The problem is that it takes more mental effort to consider the possibility that a swan is black instead of white rather than treating all swans as if they were white. I think the NT brain is better wired to reduce the amount of effort needed for social interaction. It allows them to more easily concentrate on more than one thing and quickly shift focus.

But the definition of Theory of Mind is being able to realise that other people think differently and don't know the same things you do. To use the example of the White Swan vs. Black Swan, the example would be a white swan realising that there are black swans, and vice-versa. NTs seem to be so used to people thinking very similar to them that their ToM starts to atrophy. Aspies don't fall into that trap, so oncde it develops, it stays.



willmark
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20 Jun 2009, 9:33 pm

Greentea wrote:
Well, they rule all my jobs and keep firing me...

Thank you. You make me feel very lucky, and extremely blessed. I still have issue with the term, but I won't bring it up anymore.



Morgana
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21 Jun 2009, 10:13 am

Thanks for explaining the whole "let´s do lunch" thing, I always wondered about that. I think also the "I´ll give you a call sometime" falls under the same category.

greentea, if I were the one giving the party, and you had asked me that question, knowing how I am I probably would have given you a "too long answer" describing in great detail all your possible options for when and how to come. This is why, when I talk, people get impatient and try to hurry away :lol: .


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