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01 Aug 2009, 6:20 pm

Partially related incident, or maybe just a related story in public.

My son was maybe 2 years old and was VERY prone to slamming his head into the nearest immovable object if he felt the SLIGHTEST bit stressed/bothered/forced against his will/ etc.

We were at a VERY VERY VERY crowded diner for breakfast one day (i swear there was not one seat on the house, and chairs were stuffed in isles too)

My son was standing in the booth next to me he was clearly starting to get agitated about something, maybe because he was hungry and no food had come yet...

But he started to get noisy and when i started to try and get his focus and calm him down I knew he was resisting me and so handed him to his mother OVER the table into the isle chair to change the view...well MID handing over he decided to throw his entire body (mind you he's OVER THE TABLE AT THIS POINT) forward to hit his head and the ONLY thing that I could grab was his ankle due to him catching us off guard...lol..

So he let out a blood scream at the top of his lungs just as he did it...

and all ANYONE saw was me holding him upsidedown by ONE ankle over the table above my head.

There had to be 80 people in that place.

He never took a breath, he just screamed and screamed....and I went home and vowed to never take him to a public place again. And you know what? my son was glad of that decision. turns out he hates busy public places.

Now he's 11 going on 12, and life is very different for him, but it's VERY obvious that he stands out socially in school or any place AT ALL. I try to give him his space, and his dignity. I try to use lessons in life AFTER the fact out of public eye with him so he doesn't feel like i jumped him in front of ppl and caused him undue stress and shame....something my parents NEVER afforded me in my childhood. I am still working through that at age 36.

Being a parent with an Aspie, having aspie, and having an aspie girlfriend gives me a very well developed understanding of the varying aspects I think.

I get to see things in my son that I went through and remember...and I can help him the way I was never given help. It's ALOT of work lol



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01 Aug 2009, 6:41 pm

Xule wrote:
Ok, something happened the other day when I was at work, that I really didn't understand. This couple came in with an Autistic boy that was about 12. They were escorting him, standing either side of him, with his arms securely latched in their hands, like he couldn't bloody walk on his own. They got to my till and started ordering. The boy somehow managed to slip free of his mother and started tapping the picture on the back of the register. I'll admit, the sound was a bit annoying, but I wasn't bothered, you should see some of the things I have to put up with from the 'normal' kids. But the parents WENT MAD AT HIM, to the point where his father dragged him away. And the mother just stands there blurting 'I'm so sorry, he's Autistic!' and everyone just nods solemnly at her with expressions of 'yes you poor thing'.
In the mean time I'm on the opposite side of the counter, in complete shock. All he wanted to do was tap the register! What the hell!? And his mother there harping on like a wounded veteran. I felt so sorry for the poor kid. What kind of parenting is that?


I'll tell you two reasons why she got sympathy:

1. She's a woman. Women always get sympathy, no matter how horrible they are.

2. People probably just assumed that the boy had been freaking out and throwing a tantrum because he's Autistic. NTs often have a notion that Autistics are emotionally unstable flailers who must be restrained at all or most times. An unfortunate stereotype, but one that we all have to deal with at some point. :/



granatelli
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01 Aug 2009, 7:14 pm

I asked for everyone who is actually a parent to raise their hand. One poster responded.

IMO those who haven't ever had the responsibilty of raising a child should think twice before being so critical.

Whether the mom & dad in this situation responded the correct way, I can't say. I wasn't there, don't know their situation nor did I spend the day with them. But it's not easy, being a parent. That's all I've got to say.



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01 Aug 2009, 7:16 pm

Roxas_XIII wrote:
Dilbert wrote:
Having an autistic child in this context is a black mark on their social status, because their friends (other people just like them) of course gossip about the broken child and how much of a burden the child must be on them, maybe even how autism must have been the parent's fault.


Aw HELL no. I had a total b***h of a teacher in 7th grade, who would antagonize me on purpose with the intent of setting me off. Apparently she didn't think an AS child should be mainstreamed, and so tried her very best to get me expelled. Then when my parents found out about it and confronted her during a PT conference, she has the AUDACITY to tell them that it was their fault I turned out AS and they should be ashamed of themselves. My mom came home crying.

This teacher should consider herself lucky that I moved to Wyoming, because I've sworn to kill her if she ever shows her face to me again.

This kind of BS is why I'm seriouly disillusioned about today's society. AUTISM IS NOT SOMETHING A PARENT CAN CONTROL WHETHER OR NOT THEIR CHILDREN HAVE IT, AND THE SOONER THESE MOTHERF***ERS REALIZE IT THE BETTER OFF WE'LL ALL BE.


Oh my god! That is just wrong! I had a bad 7th grade teacher also! He would let other students mess with me. And one day I got un a left the class room because this one guy was making me bad by saying something that is a very BAD lie! He thought it was funny to say that I beat up babies! It was not funny in the least bit. :evil:


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01 Aug 2009, 7:26 pm

Janissy wrote:
And yet, you are unlikely to see this sort of behaviour from parents whose children have Down's Syndrome or some other problem that causes a physical difference.

All types of parents can act like this unless they have the correct parenting skills in place. It's better not to make a big deal out of when a young child misbehaves.



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01 Aug 2009, 8:22 pm

granatelli wrote:
I asked for everyone who is actually a parent to raise their hand. One poster responded.

IMO those who haven't ever had the responsibilty of raising a child should think twice before being so critical.

Whether the mom & dad in this situation responded the correct way, I can't say. I wasn't there, don't know their situation nor did I spend the day with them. But it's not easy, being a parent. That's all I've got to say.


Um, Hi... Figured since I mentioned being a parent in my post, that counted. Guess not.

And, nope, not buying it. Trotting out the kids' disability in front of strangers still sounds like a pity-poor-me ploy. It's no better, though perhaps oddly related to, the tendancy for some parents to live out the lives they think they should have had through their children's accomplishments. The pity-poor-me types would like to do be able to live vicariously through their kids, but are frustrated that the kids don't seem capable of giving them that. Both sets of parents are focused on being self-indulgent while insisting to others -- and themselves -- that they are actually focused on their kids' welfare and both end up messing up their kids pretty thoroughly.



granatelli
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01 Aug 2009, 9:22 pm

OK, sorry I missed you. That's two.

I still disagree. The parent was simply trying to explain the situation to bystanders who probably thought that either the parents were going over board or the kid was an out of line brat. That's my opinion & I'm sticking to it.

pschristmas wrote:
granatelli wrote:
I asked for everyone who is actually a parent to raise their hand. One poster responded.

IMO those who haven't ever had the responsibilty of raising a child should think twice before being so critical.

Whether the mom & dad in this situation responded the correct way, I can't say. I wasn't there, don't know their situation nor did I spend the day with them. But it's not easy, being a parent. That's all I've got to say.


Um, Hi... Figured since I mentioned being a parent in my post, that counted. Guess not.

And, nope, not buying it. Trotting out the kids' disability in front of strangers still sounds like a pity-poor-me ploy. It's no better, though perhaps oddly related to, the tendancy for some parents to live out the lives they think they should have had through their children's accomplishments. The pity-poor-me types would like to do be able to live vicariously through their kids, but are frustrated that the kids don't seem capable of giving them that. Both sets of parents are focused on being self-indulgent while insisting to others -- and themselves -- that they are actually focused on their kids' welfare and both end up messing up their kids pretty thoroughly.



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01 Aug 2009, 9:55 pm

Janissy wrote:
I have seen this and it is only by sheer willpower that I haven't done it myself. There are several paths that a parent of an autistic child can go down and these parents are unfortunately on the "shame" path. I've seen it happen and it almost happened with me and my daughter until I took major personal steps to get off that path.

Here's how it happens:

You have a toddler. All toddlers melt down and do stimmy things. People look daggers at you when this happens in public and wonder, sometimes aloud, why you can't control that child. But fellow parents will tend to cut you slack, especially if they have young kids too, not adult kids.

Then you have a preschooler. Some preschoolers melt down and do stimmy things, although less than toddlers. People look daggers at you even more because the kid looks a little old to be doing that. But fellow parents of young kids still cut you slack.


The you have an elementary school kid. Very few of the other kids that age are still have meltdowns and doing stimmy things. The angry looks have really ramped up because EVERYBODY thinks by now that you should have taught the kid how to behave. Fellow parents no longer cut you slack because their own kids of that age have grown out of it. This is when the shame starts. After having enough people glare at you and mutter " why can't the parents CONTROL that child?" or say it outright to your face, you start to feel intense shame. Shame is what happens when you get repeatedly scolded for things you can't control.

I was headed that way with my daughter and made a deliberate and conscious effort to get off the shame path even when people glared and scolded. These parents have now been on the shame path for so long that they are horribly entrenched and their son is the worse for it, since it puts him on a shame path too.

The next time this happens, instead of internally scolding people who are clearly filled with shame after quite a lot of scolding from people who feel the opposite of you (that it ISN'T ok for him to stim), say that what he's doing is ok and it doesn't bother you. The more people express "being ok" with autistic behaviours, the less shame there will be for parents and kids alike. It's all very well to say "who cares what people think" but in reality, it's very hard to be scolded and glared at whenever you go out in public without feeling shame because of it. I stepped off that path on purpose because I could see it would ultimately be harmful for my daughter. But the horror of it is, these parents and many like them are surrounded by people who tell them that they MUST stay on this path or they are bad parents. That's what makes it so hard to get off it. You not only have to deafen yourself to the scolding and glares of strangers, you have to deafen yourself to the near-constant advice that if you let this go, you are a bad parent.

So the next time you witness something like this, try to push the parents off the shame path by letting them know that it's ok. Because you may be literally the only person who has said or even thinks that it's ok. The autistic kids will thank you.

For the record, the "he's autistic" was unlikely to be playing the sympathy card. What is far more likely was that it was an apology for his behaviour- which they assumed appalled you. I'm quite glad it didn't appall you, but you are in the minority with that, and hopefully can become a vocal minority so parents know this is ok. People who feel shame also feel like they owe the world an apology.


HALLELUJAH!! !

You've described our experience exactly. Since our son remains undiagnosed at 12, the pressure from the outside builds. I have a lot of Aspergers traits myself, so I've never been 'judgmental' with him, but I've certainly been frustrated... especially when our traits work against each other negatively. (ie, the more scattered his behaviour becomes, the more scattered my brain gets... or if my desire to turn up a song I absolutely adore, collides with his need for silence.. he wins on this one, because I can sympathize.)

Tonight, after taking his Staterra, he felt really unwell, feeling hot, tense stomach (...I've told his psychiatrist many times that he's sensitive to medications of almost any kind, he's an anxious guy as well)... I laid down beside him, turned the fan on, pointed at his face to cool him, tickled his back (he LOVES this) and he said "Mom, I wish I didn't have to take medication to make my brain normal." He has (at least what appears to be from the outside, to strangers, severe ADHD). I reminded him of my imperfections, and asked him if he thought I was abnormal... in his bluntly honest way, he said "well ..yeah?" I said, we might not be considered normal, but I love us exactly the way we are. We'll talk to the Dr when we see him in 2 weeks. If school wasn't utterly impossible for him without meds, I certainly would not give them to him. He needs an education, and it's hard to get if your action and mind are all over the place. I hope we can get something resolved ASAP. (We're waiting to get into an assessment centre, so far, we've been on this list for 4 months.)

Until then, we struggle on, I learn as much as humanly possible, and hopefully we'll get some answers and proper guidance. I feel like my kid's been let down in nearly every way possible, true, but I would never use his potenial autism as an excuse for poor behaviour. If he wants to twirls his hands, fine, if he wants to bounce up & down in a line up, great, as long as he's not bouncing into another persons space (trust me, he'd be PISSED if they bounced into his) ...if he were to start tapping on the cash register, I wouldn't say "He's potentially autistic" I'd remind him to keep his hands to himself.

I feel like I'm on both sides of the fence on this one.



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01 Aug 2009, 10:28 pm

granatelli wrote:
I still disagree. The parent was simply trying to explain the situation to bystanders who probably thought that either the parents were going over board or the kid was an out of line brat. That's my opinion & I'm sticking to it.


But why would they need to explain anything? No one had asked or said anything to them, they just volunteered the information. I can see if someone asked them why they or their child was behaving a certain way, that's just answering a question, but volunteering private information seems suspect to me.

My own daughter is not AS, but she does have difficulties stemming from juvenile arthritis. Aside from this post, where I'm using my experience as an example, I've only mentioned it to a stranger once and then in response to a direct question. She had been having trouble sleeping because of back and knee pain and I'd been up all night. My supervisor at the time asked me why I was so tired and I told him that my daughter had had a bad night. He asked me how a twelve-year-old could have a bad night, so I told him she had juvenile arthritis. He said, "Oh," and changed the subject. He was a bit embarrassed -- he'd been a bit snippy about it -- but I was just answering his question. Had he not asked, I certainly wouldn't have ever mentioned it.

Sometimes I wished she would mention it herself, because in school she had trouble taking timed exams and essay exams and accomodations could have been made, but that was her decision and I respected it. I was very proud that she didn't want to use her condition as a crutch.

I just think that a little respect for the child and their wishes is in order when parents are deciding whether or not to talk about their issues with other people. It's really not anyone else's business and the parents shouldn't make it so.



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01 Aug 2009, 10:53 pm

Parenting issues topic

I have seen this as well, and I sometimes wish the AS child was mine.

No the grass is not greener. But the AS behaviour is easier for me to understand than for me to understand the NT behaviour in my children.

I have worked with AS children before and I have not had sensory issues with their behaviour.
Perhaps i am lucky. Perhaps I just do not find it a problem.


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01 Aug 2009, 11:20 pm

The question is, how should this situation be handled? When I wrote my other posts it hadn't registered this child is twelve. The father seemed annoyed in the post written by the OP and he dragged the kid away? Doesn't sound too pleasant. Should the father have quietly and calmly gotten him away instead?
Or. Would it have been okay to let him continue tapping? When this happens it's a great opportunity for the customer service rep (the OP in this case) to lighten the situation by assuring the parents the tapping is NBD, and to casually take the order so they can pay for their food and get out of line.



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01 Aug 2009, 11:36 pm

I totally understand the shame path parents get to walk, and you don't have to have an autistic kid to walk that path. Everybody is so judgmental about the way you parent, it's ridiculous.

But I also can't stand to see parents being overly critical of their children as a result. It's understandable to an extent, but when you are scolding kids because of a stim, that's just too far. My poor nephew (who is AS), age 9, ate a green bean from the plate with his fingers because I did that when I was handing it off to my one year old who preferred to feed herself (Sunday dinner at my moms). My sister then says as he's midway to feed himself again with his fingers to use a fork, and he got that last bite in. Then she screams at him and sends him to a room without the rest of dinner because he intentionally didn't listen to her. I know the context of this situation, and she does that too much. She's not the only parent out there like that. In fact, many parents are like her. It's not about the kid to her, it's about her. She, like most parents, will disagree with me, but when you look at all the rules and all the punishments, they are all designed for the parent's better interest. This type of parenting is almost expected.

The only place I can go get parenting advice that meshes well with what I do where it's not about discipline, but consequences, and there are better techniques than straight discipline, etc...Only place where people agree with me on this concept is online. Offline, everybody expects me to be this overly critical parent who spanks the unruly child or forces her to stand in a corner. If I don't, then I'm letting my kid walk all over me. If I don't set up all these rules, my kid will never learn structure. If I don't establish strict routines, then my kid will never function. Anytime they can spit out "child abuse" or "CPS will take your kid away," they do like they are scaring me/guilting me into seeing things their way. It's ridiculous, and I'm so sick of people like that. Unfortunately, these people are people who also claim to love me (friends and family). So, what can I do? Anyway, these people are the ones that cause the bad parent epidemic where you see kids getting punished for stupid things, and ironically, they claim to do it for the children's better interest. This is one arena where it helps being Aspie because personally, I have no interest in following the herd on that one. But, oftentimes, it's me against the world as a result.

To answer the OP, why did she do it? Because other people influence her judgement. Other people are why she scolded her kid for nothing. Other people are why she felt compelled to explain herself. It doesn't make it right if you define right by what is really right. But it is right if you define right by social norms.



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02 Aug 2009, 12:35 am

Now if I was a parent, and my kid was acting up for reasons he couldn't control (such as autism), and people started critizing me for my supposed lack of parenting skills, I would tell them to "mind their own f*****g business". If they still kept at it, I would inform them that "the kid has autism/other disorder, and you obviously don't know a thing about it then you should shut up and stop telling me how to raise my own damn child before things get ugly." And if they still had the audacity to persist, that's the point where I quit holding back and deck the one closest.

Seriously, people who talk like since they have children they know everything about parenting are the ones who should be ashamed. Its one thing if they mutter behind my back, but to go as far as criticizing someone to their face about how to raise their own children is arrogant and rude. I say, if you're going to act all holier-than-thou on me, then prepare to stumble and be humbled when I knock you flat.


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02 Aug 2009, 1:51 am

If I ever encounter someone like that when I start working at a lawfirm after next year or at the court house, I would say...why are you reacting like that to harmless stimming?

after such, I will then say,....guess what...I HAVE ASD yet I am able to work here sucessfully and contributed to sucessful court cases.


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02 Aug 2009, 2:32 am

Yupa wrote:

I'll tell you two reasons why she got sympathy:

1. She's a woman. Women always get sympathy, no matter how horrible they are.

2. People probably just assumed that the boy had been freaking out and throwing a tantrum because he's Autistic. NTs often have a notion that Autistics are emotionally unstable flailers who must be restrained at all or most times. An unfortunate stereotype, but one that we all have to deal with at some point. :/
where in hell nt's got number 2


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02 Aug 2009, 9:56 am

Yupa wrote:

I'll tell you two reasons why she got sympathy:

1. She's a woman. Women always get sympathy, no matter how horrible they are.

2. People probably just assumed that the boy had been freaking out and throwing a tantrum because he's Autistic. NTs often have a notion that Autistics are emotionally unstable flailers who must be restrained at all or most times. An unfortunate stereotype, but one that we all have to deal with at some point. :/

OH MY GOD HAJI! o_o
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