What You're Doing Here Is Not Healthy, IMO.

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I agree with what Nara44 posted. It's not like we are uncaring people, we socialize a bit differently and aren't into the status quo so much while everyone else is. In order to succeed, people do things that some Aspies aren't comfortable doing and if we don't do it, we aren't as successful. "NT" is used, for lack of better term, to describe people we haven't had pleasant encounters with or who don't understand us, ridicule us, don't wish to work with us or cooperate.
It's more complicated than just lacking social skills. Aspies can be self effacing. We might not stand up for ourselves while pushed around and find confrontations difficult. We might not even know how to go about confronting people in person and if we do, will rehearse it several times, unsure of what to say or do and will talk ourselves out of it due to repercussions.
We might appear to be pushovers to the casual observers only to let people down when they find out we really aren't. All this influences the way we socialize and get along with others. There are things about us that don't fit in with the norm and we know we could be happy if we were allowed to do things the way we are used to doing them and not expected to be so devious or conniving.
The Aspies who have problems experience them, more often than not, in their relationships with others. They need a place where they can talk about the positives and the negatives. Some may need to know others are on their side. Maybe they feel ganged up on IRL and if they come here and have someone call them antisocial or narcissistic for simply expressing themselves, it could very well cause them to feel much worse about whatever difficulty they are experiencing. It's true that, a lot of the time, it is people who aren't on the spectrum who contribute to our difficulties because they are the majority. The odds the person who we are having problems with being an NT are greater than them being an autistic, but that doesn't mean we can't experience the same with autistics.
If somebody wants to post about issues and complain about what's happening in their lives, I am more than happy and willing to read about it. If they posted "I went somewhere today and several NTs were rude to me, stared at me and made derrogatory comments even though I did absolutely nothing to encite it", I would understand completely. Or, if they posted "I have three friends and they are nicer to each other than they are to me. They treat me more like a clown than a person, they try to talk me into stuff no one else would possibly say yes to and they spend hours on the phone talking about how I get on their nerves", I would understand that as well because that's the kind of experiences I have. Things like this can and do happen to nice people. People with "social skills". You cannot assume everyone that posts negatively on this site are mean, hostile, rude, selfish narcissists who are treated like crap because they must be as antisocial irl as they appear on WP. That is far from the case. Usually the person who get's treated the worst is often the kindest and nicest...willing to share with others and give them their last dime. It's not always as simple as good skills v bad skills, which do you have and this must be the reason why
People need to be able to come to places like WP and express themselves honestly about what's going on in their lives. Most people who rant about problems had them before they started going on and on about them and will, most likely, have them after. It's not the ranting and raving that creates the problem or makes it worse. A lot of the time the internet is the only place they can talk about it, anyway.

Last edited by ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo on 12 Sep 2009, 8:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Yes, I think it's a good thing to not be ashamed or think having Asperger's is a negative thing, or some sort of disease, however, the site does not do this imo.
I think one can end up with distorted perception of life and also have atypical ethical values and priorities. Whether the latter is a good or bad thing- I cannot comment on because I think it varies. However, the distorted perception of life is almost ALWAYS bad.
You either end up thinking you're incapable of functioning in a world ruled by NT customs and social expectations(which frankly, probably don't originate from conventional NTs anyway, nor are liked, merely accepted with a degree of reluctance, by the NT majority), or you think you are superior to NT customs and social expectations and deliberately don't conform to them and end up also socially isolated which leads too it being hard to keep a job, etc.
I'm glad that this site has helped you regain your self-esteem, though I think it'll be hard for you to determine the cut-off line.
-Emor.

While I don't agree, I see what you're saying, and don't think this thread is a bad idea.
No honest question or topic should be off-limits.

As a temporary thing, I think crawling into a hole while recovering can be a good thing.
Saying "screw you" to the world while re-evaluating everything was necessary for me.
And this place helped. It's still helping. No, I will never go back to the way I was before, with all the "shut up and take it" and trying to fit in. It wasn't working anyway. Driving people away? Some relationships are not worth keeping. If someone is abusive, you should drive him away.

I'm sure that what you see here is just a phase for most people. Transitional. This place exists because people have problems, and people without problems would never come here.

I think you're going to have to confirm- do you think it's possible that this site could have an negative impact on anyone who visits the site- or does everyone who leaves with things like ASN or social isolation HAVE to have had it prior to joining the site, and if they developed it during their affiliation with the site, it was purely coincidental?
Because if you're just defending yourself of not suffering from what I've specified I never once said it applied to everyone and your posts are becoming very repetitive and more tedious to respond too.
If you think this site is not to blame, I respect your opinion, however, I beg to differ, and none of your posts have altered my opinion in the slightest, esp. since I'm fully convinced I'd be less socially isolated now if I never joined WP. It's personal for me, and it'll be EXTREMELY hard for you to change my opinion on that- I personally wouldn't bother.
I still stand by my proposal of a change of social linguistics here, however. I think no one finds the current ones beneficial other than the initial misanthropists.
-Emor.

I think that's an extremely risky recovery stage/phase and one that can become too comfortable and too easy to just stay in.
-Emor.

I think some will and some won't. I just don't think it's a foregone conclusion.

But maybe there's an age-related perspective rift here. My beliefs/feelings about the world formed in total isolation from other ASD folk, and I've been out-and-about a while now, so it's hard to feel too worried that other's views are warping my sense of reality. (If anything I feel less 'mentally warped' having found places like WP.)

If I'd had a negative ASD peer group when I was young, though... maybe it could've had an undue negative influence. My worry is that there are a lot of forces trying to tell people (especially young people) what to believe. There's Pollyannas and cynics and others -- I'd rather people try to sort it out on their own than have either the P's or the C's take over and declare their view the most proper.

I think I see what you're worried about, though. If you're saying as a blanket statement that WP is a bad thing, I disagree. But if it's that some people are going to get caught in a negative spiral here, then sure, I can see that as a possibility, and a warning or discussion the issue doesn't seem like a bad idea.

It's hard to believe that someone with lots of friends and a good job would visit this site, read a few posts from Aspies who had a tough day at school or work, and then decide to self isolate, give up on their relationships or quit their jobs. I've been to other places on the internet and WP is one of the least negative sites I've been to. It has it's moments of meanness, but not like others. Part of it being a support site should mean it gives support to people on the spectrum who are venting about their problems in life (as long as they are doing it in a way that follows the WP tos), not censoring what they can and can't post.
I think any site can have a negative impact. This one can, but so can any other.

I'm just responding to the topic of this particular post which I happen to disagree with.
That could be true for you and others. I don't know. WP hasn't made me any less or more socially isolated or changed my social situation in the slightest.

I don't think of myself as a misanthropist. I have been way past nice to people. I have given them things, including money. I have complimented them, driven them places, listened to stories about their love lives, let them eat my last Lean Crusine frozen Orange Chicken dinner.
I am more of a philanthropist than most of the people I have met.

over the years I have found the 'NT bashing' to be cyclic to both the site and to the members indulging in it on the site. I notice it is not always the same people all the time, and frankly I don't know where these members would go if there were no place to vent. I know what I did when I had no place to vent, when I had no idea what it was I needed to vent about.

I am grateful to WrongPlanet.net for being here for what ever the members need to work through. Working through their feelings about being a minuscule minority can be overwhelming. Knowing we will never be more than a miniscule minority can bring out the rebellion in a person at the outrageous inequity of it all. Instead of collasping down and giving over to the majority, they rail at the dimming of the light, and the 'superiority' flash of genius comes out. But they work though that too.

Here is the grief model called "The 7 Stages of Grief":


7 Stages of Grief...

1. SHOCK & DENIAL-
You will probably react to learning of the loss with numbed disbelief. You may deny the reality of the loss at some level, in order to avoid the pain. Shock provides emotional protection from being overwhelmed all at once. This may last for weeks.

2. PAIN & GUILT-
As the shock wears off, it is replaced with the suffering of unbelievable pain. Although excruciating and almost unbearable, it is important that you experience the pain fully, and not hide it, avoid it or escape from it with alcohol or drugs.

You may have guilty feelings or remorse over things you did or didn't do with your loved one. Life feels chaotic and scary during this phase.

3. ANGER & BARGAINING-
Frustration gives way to anger, and you may lash out and lay unwarranted blame for the death on someone else. Please try to control this, as permanent damage to your relationships may result. This is a time for the release of bottled up emotion.

You may rail against fate, questioning "Why me?" You may also try to bargain in vain with the powers that be for a way out of your despair ("I will never drink again if you just bring him back")

4. "DEPRESSION", REFLECTION, LONELINESS-
Just when your friends may think you should be getting on with your life, a long period of sad reflection will likely overtake you. This is a normal stage of grief, so do not be "talked out of it" by well-meaning outsiders. Encouragement from others is not helpful to you during this stage of grieving.

During this time, you finally realize the true magnitude of your loss, and it depresses you. You may isolate yourself on purpose, reflect on things you did with your lost one, and focus on memories of the past. You may sense feelings of emptiness or despair.

7 Stages of Grief...

5. THE UPWARD TURN-
As you start to adjust to life without your dear one, your life becomes a little calmer and more organized. Your physical symptoms lessen, and your "depression" begins to lift slightly.

6. RECONSTRUCTION & WORKING THROUGH-
As you become more functional, your mind starts working again, and you will find yourself seeking realistic solutions to problems posed by life without your loved one. You will start to work on practical and financial problems and reconstructing yourself and your life without him or her.

7. ACCEPTANCE & HOPE-
During this, the last of the seven stages in this grief model, you learn to accept and deal with the reality of your situation. Acceptance does not necessarily mean instant happiness. Given the pain and turmoil you have experienced, you can never return to the carefree, untroubled YOU that existed before this tragedy. But you will find a way forward.

7 stages of grief...

You will start to look forward and actually plan things for the future. Eventually, you will be able to think about your lost loved one without pain; sadness, yes, but the wrenching pain will be gone. You will once again anticipate some good times to come, and yes, even find joy again in the experience of living.

___________________________________

This is interesting point
I too spent most of my life without any touch or communication with any AS group
Yet i independently dug myself a hole quite similarly to the many holes i found here at WP
I was diagnosed at autistic many years ago but wasn't looking for any support of any kind because i was convinced that there is no such thing for me
some how i managed a quite exiting,wild,creative and interesting life with out any support at all
it is not that WP is very crucial for me
i'm not addicted to this site and doesn't post or read it every day
but it is a nice and friendly place
it's like the bar in Cheers where everybody knows your name,tra la la
(kind of)

I really don't think this thread is healthy. It doesn't look like anything is being discussed, all the opinions are just being dismissed. Everyone has already made up their minds on this topic.. this whole thread just seems like an argument.

thanks
that was very wise and nice

Changing the mind or opinions of others is not necessarily more healthy than listening to many point of views
some of them contradicting each other
Discussions doesn't necessarily change people opinion or choices right then on the the spot
u listen,some of it it stay with you,some of it would come up at the right or at an unexpected situation and would give u a moment pause
people are incredibly complex and life is endlessly reach ,
u can't expect deep rooted opinions to change instantly just like that

Before finding this site not only didn't I understand how to act in most social situations, but I didn't perceive that people would modulate their behavior at all outside of certain very specific situations. I find some comments here funny because often people here will demonstrate knowledge of social customs which is so far beyond my own knowledge.

This site has helped me very much. Because of this site I learned about AS and discovered how ignorant I have been and still am in many ways.

For example, although I had applied for jobs I hadn't been able to get one, because I would act certain ways and answer certain questions from my own perception without considering what the interviewer might want to hear.

Because of this site and learning about AS I went on YouTube and watched videos of people giving advice about what to do during interviews and how to answer questions during interviews, and I did get a job because of that.

And because of this site I learned the acceptable response to the question "How are you doing?" is not to tell them how I am, but to say "Pretty well, and you?"

And I learned about why people want to talk about inane things, and that it is expected to enable them to do so.

I have learned so much about people from this site, and when I've seen topics like this one I've been confused. Pointing out differences and pointing out the problems you've had with other people isn't necessarily done with the intention of wishing them harm. Of all of the people whose posts I've read it seems that there are fairly few who actually express a desire to harm others. I hate dealing with many people. Many people have hurt me, and while I hate dealing with them and hate being around them, and even fear how many of them will treat me that doesn't mean that I want them to be harmed.

People here generally seem more accepting of differences than people at other places, so I think I would like if more people were like the people here. That also doesn't mean that I wish harm on others who are not like the people here.

Ditto. I see a lot of people helping each other with useful information and emotional support. There's nowhere else to get that. The rest of the world wants to tell you that everything about you is wrong, which is objectively false and is very hurtful.
This is where you go to get inoculated against stockholm syndrome and other mind-numbing effects of dealing with a toxic culture.
Only because you haven't been to Autreat -- www.autreat.com/autreat.html
"a world where neurotypicals and their customs dominate" would be a hell on earth, for everyone, including the NT, and we would be having this conversation in front of a cave.

Mindless human nature, without the philosophers and other revolutionary thinkers, is called "barbarism." (Or, worse yet, excessive blind obedience combined with modern technology is causing a sudden rise in fascism. If you've been paying attention to the changes in our culture during this past decade, you should be terrified. If this country doesn't do some serious rebelling very soon, there will probably be no more opportunities to do so.)

On the other hand, too many free spirits would make it hard to get anything done.
The sheep hold things together while the independent thinkers try to move things forward. If only we could cooperate.
I would hope so. A little reality therapy, anyone?
This world sucks. Closing your eyes only makes you part of the problem.

No danger of that. It's not even a little bit comfortable.

What she said.
I would quibble with the details, but the point is that there's a necessary process. Stages of various this and that.

that's where I was BEFORE I found this site and was dx'd with AS. I don't think I'll have a problem determining the cut-off line now that I know I'm capable of following the beat of my own drummer and that I don't need to follow herd thinking to fit in, but I'd better be careful how I do it so I'm not shunned.

I now have hope that I'll find a place I can function as a contributing member of society. some of my work has already influenced changes to state policy, and I hope to do more work like that... my dream is to change things at a federal level. part of being able to do that is figuring out how to function in a society of people who confuse me and are confused by me.

it's a balance. I think everyone has to figure out what works for them.