Could they like us?

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Normally I probably wouldn't respond, but in this thread I will. Thank you. It is good to know that my posts are being processed and appreciated, too.

Hmm.... you see it as hoping they'd give you a second chance?

Perhaps it is my Scottish blood but I will NEVER let them back in my life after they realize I was cool and not what they thought in item 2). I want them to SUFFER like I have, perhaps suffer more. I was not given a chance so neither shall they be given one - - that's karma in action with me being the agent. Serves them frickin' right. And lest you think I'm stooping to their level it was THEY who rejected me for no good reason - - I am rejecting them for LOGICAL reasons - they are either indecisive or unable to see the truth so why bother with their sorry self? Ah, but anyway it's all moot as they won't have the courage to admit their errors, the weaklings. I revel in knowing I am superior and they were wrong - that's my victory.

A pyrrhic victory indeed.That will just tell them that they were right the first time.

I NEVER give the other cheek either. If they were perfectly entitled to dislike me at the beginning, I'm perfectly entitled to despise them now. It's their right to choose friends, and it's my right to do the same. I usually take revenge by doing to them EXACTLY the same thing they did to me (in principle). Eg: If they ridiculed me in front of people whose impression I cared about, I'll make sure when they start liking me and trusting me that one day they suffer a similar magnitude of humiliation and/or loss in some way, not necessarily public ridicule. If it didn't kill them and it's even appropriate that I deal with the ridicule and give a second chance, then it won't kill them and it's appropriate that they deal with the humiliation I dish them and give me a second chance. Even if therapists LOVE to convince you that "the other" has more rights than you to hurt those they dislike and be forgiven for it.

Janissy, truer words have never been spoken on WrongPlanet. You are a wise, wise person and I am so glad that you are here.

This is how feuds and even wars get started. If you meet hatred with hatred, you get escalation. If you meet hatred with love, you diffuse the situation. Which gives you more power, ultimately?

Well, generalizations are hard to make in this scenario. First of all:

1) How severe is the autism/AS?
2) How sensitive are the NTs?

While there are a couple of NTs that I know that are superficial (they'll use one abnormality or faux pas as an excuse to despise a person), the majority of them seem perfectly fine with me (and with a couple of other AS people that I know). They find the inadherence to some social norms to be funny, somewhat "endearing" (yes, I know the term is kind of patronizing).

There are limits though. I have heard some NTs making comments about other people with AS, who are a bit more noticeable than myself. If I know the person, I try to defend them. They aren't bad people, they're just "odd".

Friendship is a process. People do not necessarily hit it off instantly. What frequently happens is that people get to know somebody better and understand and see beyond the things that initially put them off. That's what Dilbert meant. This isn't unique to Aspies. It's very common. It's happened to me both as the one who changed my mind about somebody else once I got to know them and as the person welcomed into friendship once the person got to know me better. People have said "I thought you were a flake when I met you but..." or "I thought you were a hardass when I met you but..." and I've said similar things to them. This is a very common friendship process. If you shut it down on principle and vow never to like somebody who didn't like you at first, no matter what, you shut out many potential friends.

Once I was friends with a man and a woman who disliked each other intensly on sight. Each would say to me, "why do you hang out with him/her? He/She is such a ---". I explained to him what I liked in her. I explained to her what I liked in him. I got them to grudgingly both go on group get-togethers even though the other was going. Gradually, they got to know each other better and each see the good qualities I had seen in both of them. And then they took it a step farther and saw good qualities invisible to me. Now they are married.

Move past first impressions and let others do the same. Very good things can happen.

How are they supposed to know what is essence and what is appearance, especially if they have only had a brief acquaintance with you?

People are not mindreaders. There is no sign over people's heads going "This guy seems like a jerk but in reality is a nice guy." Most communication is educated guess work with very confused signals.

If you are obviously nice to them and after spending actual time together, they still can't see your "essence", then that is a problem with them and you have a genuine grievance.

The problem is though that if someone seems immediately "wrong" then people will naturally try to avoid them unless as one poster said they are forced to spend time together. So if they don't like you initially then they are less likely to get into the situation of spending a lot of time with you. You can't fault that either because everyone has a finite amount of time. If you tried to spend quality time with every single person you ever met to get to know the "true" them you won't have time to do anything else. So people take shortcuts unless forced into a situation where they can't.

Sure it would be nice if everyone had a sign over their head letting the world know whether they can be trusted or not. But unfortunately this is reality where no-one can see into each other's minds. It is even possible for people who have long standing close relationships to be surprised by a facet of their spouse/parent's/friend's personality.

Them: "I just met this guy who seemed like a jerk. Let's avoid him in the future."

You: "I met this guy for 5 minutes and I know I seem like a jerk but in those 5 minutes he was unable to see the true nice person that I am under the jerkish outside. So I will now plot revenge and try to bring him down because he is unable to read minds."

You two form a longer relationship.

Them: You know I thought you were a jerk when you first met you but I'm glad to have known you better because I think we are good friends now.

You: Ha! I only befriended you because I wanted you to suffer. Bwahaha, now that you think of me as a friend I will hurt you!

Them: Wow. I was right the first time - you *are* a jerk.

You: People are so cruel. They never give me a chance Why does everyone hate me and not see the true nice person that I am?

+1 AnnieK!

No us Scots might be tight with money but we're not a country of misanthropes.

On the subject of others responding to your posts here, I have noticed that it mostly just isn't done here. I have accepted it as part of the fabric of the forum, and its just a difference between this forum and others I have been on. Oh well. That's how it is. I expect since I don't experience NLD, there are many people here who do not experience things the way I do, so I suppose not getting responses to my posts would be expected here for me. There is an exception. When its your post that started a new thread, that is when you get lots of opinions on what you have to say. If you want to get replies to your posts, start a new thread.

As for will you ever get NTs to accept you as friends, I'm afraid I don't hold out much hope for you, unless you are blessed to find individuals who are sensitive to your feelings and try to understand things from your perspective, and try to look beyond their own nose, and what they think about how you come across to them. I don't know what it's like to have NLD, and I may not know what it's like to be an Aspie, but I thoroughly understand what it's like to feel rejected by the culture. Aspies are not the only folks who experience this. Our western culture seems to attack anyone who is different for whatever reason. Kids with Cerebral Palsy are often, or perhaps used to be teased because of their gait for instance. Black people got and still get rejected for having black skin. My crime against the culture was that I was quiet, and not a strong macho masculine type. It doesn't seem to matter why your different, and it's probably not really about you, you're just the convenient soul who happened to be there when the person needed an excuse to boost their ego.

But I'm venting a little too. That is probably not totally fair to most NTs, but I am not sure what to do about it. It is amazing what kinds of things are required to change a culture's mind. For instance, when I was in high school, bullying was considered just a part of life, and that nothing really needed to be done about it other than to teach the victim how to defend himself. But since Colombine, and other school shootings took place, folks have suddenly decided that bullying is really a bad thing for both the perpetrator and the victim, and that school administrations really need to install programs to change this behavior. Please don't assume I am recommending that Aspies go shoot up NTs when they are upset with how they are treated by them, I am simply giving an example of how difficult changing a culture can be. It has taken black people three generations to get to where they are just beginning to be treated as quazy equals by this culture. Education is a more peaceful approach, but it may take a while.

QFT.

I have to admit, that I sometimes have things that I'd like to add to your threads Greentea, but I don't because I never know when you're going to do what the posts above says. I've seen you viciously attack other posters when as far as I can tell, they've not done a thing to you to deserve it. I've even gone so far as to look at some post history to see if maybe some kind of altercation had occurred previously, and is being carried over. I've not been able to find anything. I've heard you recount stories from real life where you've pretended to be a friend just so that you can hurt people, because of some sort of perceived slight. That's cruel. It's not being blunt, or assertive. It's just plain malicious, backstabbing, and mean. I can't relate to a mindset of being obsessed with revenge, and getting others before they get you. You don't look for potential friends, because you're too consumed with looking for potential enemies.

Negative stereotypes and misunderstandings related to AS/autism seem common. I find it intriguing that some of us who suffer from these stereotypes are so ready to engage in the same behavior and negatively stereotype others - in this thread NT's. Perhaps this tit-for-tat is a "normal " reaction, but I don't believe it is fair, and it doesn't help our cause.

NT's are a rather large and diverse group. Of course there are plenty of adult NT's who can be intolerant of the differences we present. Frankly, there are also NT's who are utterly unperturbed by us and treat us exactly like they would anyone else. I have met quite a few. There are also those kind, good-hearted NT's who are unintentionally disconcerted by us, but who would never insult or harm us in any way even if they do shy away from us.

To answer the original question, I have no doubt that greater understanding of AS/autism would lead to greater acceptance. It was not long ago that gays were jailed, or worse, and now with a greater understanding of their differences they are being allowed to marry in some jurisdictions. A radical shift, indeed.

Janissy, no need to explain to me how it works, I know all about being an acquired taste. And I have a phone ringing very often with people coming back to me after they'd dumped me in favor of "better" friend/s. But as I said, they had a right to dislike me in the beginning, even if for no reason at all, and I have a right to despise them now, even if for no reason at all. We all have a right to choose, and I choose to despise people who treated me like s**t before even getting to know me. As well as I choose to despise people who treated me like s**t after getting to know me.

Now if you mean someone who used to dislike me but was a noble, enlightened, unique soul that never acted on that dislike, show me where there is one and I'll certainly give them a second chance.

This isn't about rights, Greentea. It's about human decency and not being a total jacka** to people because of misunderstandings. Certainly you have a right to be that way. Just don't come back complaining about not being able to make friends.

You have never addressed me directly on WrongPlanet, even when I implored you to engage in open discussion with me. You have instead chosen to post as if I do not exist. Now I know why that is; I'm on your despised "for no reason at all" list. Or did I get this wrong? I suppose I will never know. Frankly, I don't care. If you ever do want to engage in open discussion with me, my door is open.