21 Nov 2009, 11:15 pm
LabPet wrote:
Precisely. And perhaps the the most not-understandable part of Neurotypicals. Although I do like/love many NTs, admittedly, they can be tricky in this way. I believe what you've so aptly described is cognitive dissonance.
No offense NTs (really!) but your psychology can be wickedly painful to those of us (Autists) who just plain don't get it. In certain ways, this is a reason I like being Autistic.
Autists are quite unidirectional: y = m x + b
NTs can be....... X ^2 + Y ^2 = 1
...and they don't tell you where that inflection point is and they sure don't do the math. If only they came equipped with mood rings or other quantifiable signal. But no.
Great algebra analogy, LOL! No offense NTs (really!) but your psychology can be wickedly painful to those of us (Autists) who just plain don't get it. In certain ways, this is a reason I like being Autistic.
Autists are quite unidirectional: y = m x + b
NTs can be....... X ^2 + Y ^2 = 1
...and they don't tell you where that inflection point is and they sure don't do the math. If only they came equipped with mood rings or other quantifiable signal. But no.
It drives me crazy. I would like people to mean what they say, I simply don't get subtle insinuations and similar things.
BTW, good to see you again, LabPet! *Gives virtual hug*
21 Nov 2009, 11:35 pm
LabPet wrote:
TheSpecialKid wrote:
I don't think it's only NTs... I do it too, I hate when other people don't say their things directly, and I'm very much into problem solving, however I don't go to straight to my parents and say: "Hey I think i have AS."
I'm actually in pain, by not being able to tell them. Therefore I gave them clues, and either they understood it, or else they found out though my cousin.
I'm actually in pain, by not being able to tell them. Therefore I gave them clues, and either they understood it, or else they found out though my cousin.
I think I'd be leery too! Because you just cannot know how they'll take that information that is directly conveyed. Communication is hard and there's just no right way. One of our triads of impairment: Communication. And Aspies can be honest to a fault. The dichotomy is that it's one of our best traits too! And why I admire other Autists/AS; our direct honest approach.
(...even if that means tellling her that she does in fact look fat in that skirt)
My staff Stephanie likes to gives me a bad time about my honesty and thinks it's "cute".
22 Nov 2009, 12:57 am
sinsboldly
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22 Nov 2009, 1:25 am
22 Nov 2009, 2:36 am
sartresue
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22 Nov 2009, 12:09 pm
Irisrises wrote:
Irisrises is on board.
I only have two experiences of this problem, with my childhood family as an adult and with Lotloi (=LOngTerm LOve Interest) because with other people I am frankly not trying to tell them much usually, just trying to go along or get away. But with family it has caused a lot of problems because before I self-diagnosed I didn't understand that they didn't understand the same things I did, it was incomprehensible to me that things that were obvious to me were not also obvious to them, and likewise, that things that were difficult for me were not also difficult for them. I've learnt that my thinking is different but I haven't yet learnt how to say things in a way that gets taken seriously, although that's also to do with family dynamics unrelated to autism. But I don't speak to them much right now.
Lotloi is a bit different because he doesn't actually have much of a problem with directness, he just doesn't really pay much attention unless I really throw a fit which I don't like to do. He's a bit like a sieve, everything passes through him, including my carefully worded protests, invitations and goodwill gestures, which I always assume he will not only retain but treasure...no such luck. What to do. It's true what Sartresue said about losing face, he thinks he's losing face if he listens to me just like I guess he thinks it's an act of submission that I listen to him and comply with what he wants - but how else can people move forward together? I don't fight, I don't need to be fought. I admire him in so many ways and I don't want that to be a source of humiliation for me. That's not right.
But I don't make myself clear even when I think I have. And I'm not coy or flirtatious enough, women do that to inform men of their intentions. I think everything should be straight-forward - we'll meet at this time at this place, it's easy, you tell me, I tell you - but I guess he thinks that's boring, he likes to banter, and that's a lot of work for me.
It's love, no? I'll do this, not for you, but with you. But you've got to do it with me, too.
But I'm in this foreign city at the moment, for another week, and it's built around a sacred mountain which I didn't know before I got here but those mountains are everywhere so I'm not surprised. (What makes them sacred is that people used them for spiritual focus for millennia before the modern era although few of them are currently in use.) So this mountain, when I got here it invited me to share its alignment while I'm here. There have been two explicit instructions, both saying the same thing: one was when I went to a yoga class and the teacher said to me "notice that wobbliness in your knees? Hang out in that wobbly place" and the other one was a dance performance by a dancer/choreographer who'd lost a leg in an accident and he was dancing and talking and the show was about "don't try to find and show off your equilibrium, explore the possibilities in your lack of equilibrium". Always falling, always going on.
That may not sound very clear to everybody, me talking to mountains and so on, but it's the world I live in.
I only have two experiences of this problem, with my childhood family as an adult and with Lotloi (=LOngTerm LOve Interest) because with other people I am frankly not trying to tell them much usually, just trying to go along or get away. But with family it has caused a lot of problems because before I self-diagnosed I didn't understand that they didn't understand the same things I did, it was incomprehensible to me that things that were obvious to me were not also obvious to them, and likewise, that things that were difficult for me were not also difficult for them. I've learnt that my thinking is different but I haven't yet learnt how to say things in a way that gets taken seriously, although that's also to do with family dynamics unrelated to autism. But I don't speak to them much right now.
Lotloi is a bit different because he doesn't actually have much of a problem with directness, he just doesn't really pay much attention unless I really throw a fit which I don't like to do. He's a bit like a sieve, everything passes through him, including my carefully worded protests, invitations and goodwill gestures, which I always assume he will not only retain but treasure...no such luck. What to do. It's true what Sartresue said about losing face, he thinks he's losing face if he listens to me just like I guess he thinks it's an act of submission that I listen to him and comply with what he wants - but how else can people move forward together? I don't fight, I don't need to be fought. I admire him in so many ways and I don't want that to be a source of humiliation for me. That's not right.
But I don't make myself clear even when I think I have. And I'm not coy or flirtatious enough, women do that to inform men of their intentions. I think everything should be straight-forward - we'll meet at this time at this place, it's easy, you tell me, I tell you - but I guess he thinks that's boring, he likes to banter, and that's a lot of work for me.
It's love, no? I'll do this, not for you, but with you. But you've got to do it with me, too.
But I'm in this foreign city at the moment, for another week, and it's built around a sacred mountain which I didn't know before I got here but those mountains are everywhere so I'm not surprised. (What makes them sacred is that people used them for spiritual focus for millennia before the modern era although few of them are currently in use.) So this mountain, when I got here it invited me to share its alignment while I'm here. There have been two explicit instructions, both saying the same thing: one was when I went to a yoga class and the teacher said to me "notice that wobbliness in your knees? Hang out in that wobbly place" and the other one was a dance performance by a dancer/choreographer who'd lost a leg in an accident and he was dancing and talking and the show was about "don't try to find and show off your equilibrium, explore the possibilities in your lack of equilibrium". Always falling, always going on.
That may not sound very clear to everybody, me talking to mountains and so on, but it's the world I live in.
Going with the flowing stream of consciousness topic
NTs would do well taking yoga and investigating mysticism--this might take away their fear of directness/honesty.
22 Nov 2009, 1:21 pm
23 Nov 2009, 11:33 am
sartresue wrote:
Irisrises wrote:
Irisrises is on board.
I only have two experiences of this problem, with my childhood family as an adult and with Lotloi (=LOngTerm LOve Interest) because with other people I am frankly not trying to tell them much usually, just trying to go along or get away. But with family it has caused a lot of problems because before I self-diagnosed I didn't understand that they didn't understand the same things I did, it was incomprehensible to me that things that were obvious to me were not also obvious to them, and likewise, that things that were difficult for me were not also difficult for them. I've learnt that my thinking is different but I haven't yet learnt how to say things in a way that gets taken seriously, although that's also to do with family dynamics unrelated to autism. But I don't speak to them much right now.
Lotloi is a bit different because he doesn't actually have much of a problem with directness, he just doesn't really pay much attention unless I really throw a fit which I don't like to do. He's a bit like a sieve, everything passes through him, including my carefully worded protests, invitations and goodwill gestures, which I always assume he will not only retain but treasure...no such luck. What to do. It's true what Sartresue said about losing face, he thinks he's losing face if he listens to me just like I guess he thinks it's an act of submission that I listen to him and comply with what he wants - but how else can people move forward together? I don't fight, I don't need to be fought. I admire him in so many ways and I don't want that to be a source of humiliation for me. That's not right.
But I don't make myself clear even when I think I have. And I'm not coy or flirtatious enough, women do that to inform men of their intentions. I think everything should be straight-forward - we'll meet at this time at this place, it's easy, you tell me, I tell you - but I guess he thinks that's boring, he likes to banter, and that's a lot of work for me.
It's love, no? I'll do this, not for you, but with you. But you've got to do it with me, too.
But I'm in this foreign city at the moment, for another week, and it's built around a sacred mountain which I didn't know before I got here but those mountains are everywhere so I'm not surprised. (What makes them sacred is that people used them for spiritual focus for millennia before the modern era although few of them are currently in use.) So this mountain, when I got here it invited me to share its alignment while I'm here. There have been two explicit instructions, both saying the same thing: one was when I went to a yoga class and the teacher said to me "notice that wobbliness in your knees? Hang out in that wobbly place" and the other one was a dance performance by a dancer/choreographer who'd lost a leg in an accident and he was dancing and talking and the show was about "don't try to find and show off your equilibrium, explore the possibilities in your lack of equilibrium". Always falling, always going on.
That may not sound very clear to everybody, me talking to mountains and so on, but it's the world I live in.
I only have two experiences of this problem, with my childhood family as an adult and with Lotloi (=LOngTerm LOve Interest) because with other people I am frankly not trying to tell them much usually, just trying to go along or get away. But with family it has caused a lot of problems because before I self-diagnosed I didn't understand that they didn't understand the same things I did, it was incomprehensible to me that things that were obvious to me were not also obvious to them, and likewise, that things that were difficult for me were not also difficult for them. I've learnt that my thinking is different but I haven't yet learnt how to say things in a way that gets taken seriously, although that's also to do with family dynamics unrelated to autism. But I don't speak to them much right now.
Lotloi is a bit different because he doesn't actually have much of a problem with directness, he just doesn't really pay much attention unless I really throw a fit which I don't like to do. He's a bit like a sieve, everything passes through him, including my carefully worded protests, invitations and goodwill gestures, which I always assume he will not only retain but treasure...no such luck. What to do. It's true what Sartresue said about losing face, he thinks he's losing face if he listens to me just like I guess he thinks it's an act of submission that I listen to him and comply with what he wants - but how else can people move forward together? I don't fight, I don't need to be fought. I admire him in so many ways and I don't want that to be a source of humiliation for me. That's not right.
But I don't make myself clear even when I think I have. And I'm not coy or flirtatious enough, women do that to inform men of their intentions. I think everything should be straight-forward - we'll meet at this time at this place, it's easy, you tell me, I tell you - but I guess he thinks that's boring, he likes to banter, and that's a lot of work for me.
It's love, no? I'll do this, not for you, but with you. But you've got to do it with me, too.
But I'm in this foreign city at the moment, for another week, and it's built around a sacred mountain which I didn't know before I got here but those mountains are everywhere so I'm not surprised. (What makes them sacred is that people used them for spiritual focus for millennia before the modern era although few of them are currently in use.) So this mountain, when I got here it invited me to share its alignment while I'm here. There have been two explicit instructions, both saying the same thing: one was when I went to a yoga class and the teacher said to me "notice that wobbliness in your knees? Hang out in that wobbly place" and the other one was a dance performance by a dancer/choreographer who'd lost a leg in an accident and he was dancing and talking and the show was about "don't try to find and show off your equilibrium, explore the possibilities in your lack of equilibrium". Always falling, always going on.
That may not sound very clear to everybody, me talking to mountains and so on, but it's the world I live in.
Going with the flowing stream of consciousness topic
NTs would do well taking yoga and investigating mysticism--this might take away their fear of directness/honesty.
If yoga and mysticism had any effect on directness or honesty, the cultures where such things originated would be the most direct and honest. But are they? I haven't seen any evidence that this is so. If anything, mysticism is the absolute opposite of directness.
sartresue
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Age: 69
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,313
Location: The Castle of Shock and Awe-tism
23 Nov 2009, 12:40 pm
Janissy wrote:
sartresue wrote:
Irisrises wrote:
Irisrises is on board.
I only have two experiences of this problem, with my childhood family as an adult and with Lotloi (=LOngTerm LOve Interest) because with other people I am frankly not trying to tell them much usually, just trying to go along or get away. But with family it has caused a lot of problems because before I self-diagnosed I didn't understand that they didn't understand the same things I did, it was incomprehensible to me that things that were obvious to me were not also obvious to them, and likewise, that things that were difficult for me were not also difficult for them. I've learnt that my thinking is different but I haven't yet learnt how to say things in a way that gets taken seriously, although that's also to do with family dynamics unrelated to autism. But I don't speak to them much right now.
Lotloi is a bit different because he doesn't actually have much of a problem with directness, he just doesn't really pay much attention unless I really throw a fit which I don't like to do. He's a bit like a sieve, everything passes through him, including my carefully worded protests, invitations and goodwill gestures, which I always assume he will not only retain but treasure...no such luck. What to do. It's true what Sartresue said about losing face, he thinks he's losing face if he listens to me just like I guess he thinks it's an act of submission that I listen to him and comply with what he wants - but how else can people move forward together? I don't fight, I don't need to be fought. I admire him in so many ways and I don't want that to be a source of humiliation for me. That's not right.
But I don't make myself clear even when I think I have. And I'm not coy or flirtatious enough, women do that to inform men of their intentions. I think everything should be straight-forward - we'll meet at this time at this place, it's easy, you tell me, I tell you - but I guess he thinks that's boring, he likes to banter, and that's a lot of work for me.
It's love, no? I'll do this, not for you, but with you. But you've got to do it with me, too.
But I'm in this foreign city at the moment, for another week, and it's built around a sacred mountain which I didn't know before I got here but those mountains are everywhere so I'm not surprised. (What makes them sacred is that people used them for spiritual focus for millennia before the modern era although few of them are currently in use.) So this mountain, when I got here it invited me to share its alignment while I'm here. There have been two explicit instructions, both saying the same thing: one was when I went to a yoga class and the teacher said to me "notice that wobbliness in your knees? Hang out in that wobbly place" and the other one was a dance performance by a dancer/choreographer who'd lost a leg in an accident and he was dancing and talking and the show was about "don't try to find and show off your equilibrium, explore the possibilities in your lack of equilibrium". Always falling, always going on.
That may not sound very clear to everybody, me talking to mountains and so on, but it's the world I live in.
I only have two experiences of this problem, with my childhood family as an adult and with Lotloi (=LOngTerm LOve Interest) because with other people I am frankly not trying to tell them much usually, just trying to go along or get away. But with family it has caused a lot of problems because before I self-diagnosed I didn't understand that they didn't understand the same things I did, it was incomprehensible to me that things that were obvious to me were not also obvious to them, and likewise, that things that were difficult for me were not also difficult for them. I've learnt that my thinking is different but I haven't yet learnt how to say things in a way that gets taken seriously, although that's also to do with family dynamics unrelated to autism. But I don't speak to them much right now.
Lotloi is a bit different because he doesn't actually have much of a problem with directness, he just doesn't really pay much attention unless I really throw a fit which I don't like to do. He's a bit like a sieve, everything passes through him, including my carefully worded protests, invitations and goodwill gestures, which I always assume he will not only retain but treasure...no such luck. What to do. It's true what Sartresue said about losing face, he thinks he's losing face if he listens to me just like I guess he thinks it's an act of submission that I listen to him and comply with what he wants - but how else can people move forward together? I don't fight, I don't need to be fought. I admire him in so many ways and I don't want that to be a source of humiliation for me. That's not right.
But I don't make myself clear even when I think I have. And I'm not coy or flirtatious enough, women do that to inform men of their intentions. I think everything should be straight-forward - we'll meet at this time at this place, it's easy, you tell me, I tell you - but I guess he thinks that's boring, he likes to banter, and that's a lot of work for me.
It's love, no? I'll do this, not for you, but with you. But you've got to do it with me, too.
But I'm in this foreign city at the moment, for another week, and it's built around a sacred mountain which I didn't know before I got here but those mountains are everywhere so I'm not surprised. (What makes them sacred is that people used them for spiritual focus for millennia before the modern era although few of them are currently in use.) So this mountain, when I got here it invited me to share its alignment while I'm here. There have been two explicit instructions, both saying the same thing: one was when I went to a yoga class and the teacher said to me "notice that wobbliness in your knees? Hang out in that wobbly place" and the other one was a dance performance by a dancer/choreographer who'd lost a leg in an accident and he was dancing and talking and the show was about "don't try to find and show off your equilibrium, explore the possibilities in your lack of equilibrium". Always falling, always going on.
That may not sound very clear to everybody, me talking to mountains and so on, but it's the world I live in.
Going with the flowing stream of consciousness topic
NTs would do well taking yoga and investigating mysticism--this might take away their fear of directness/honesty.
If yoga and mysticism had any effect on directness or honesty, the cultures where such things originated would be the most direct and honest. But are they? I haven't seen any evidence that this is so. If anything, mysticism is the absolute opposite of directness.
Confrontation topic
When people lose themselves in yoga (at least in the classes I have been in) afterward they tend to say how connected they feel and they lose that sense of needing to keep face/control and become (at least for a time) more open and direct. Must be the endorphins, but alas, it is temporary, and then they go back to being more of their NT-ish selves.
PaganMom
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23 Nov 2009, 12:44 pm
sartresue
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