Individuals wishing to be afflicted with Asperger's Syndrome

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%BCnchausen_syndrome

I think Propositional_Logic should consider the idea at length, and how hard it would be.

I know that in a very few cases that people have tried to fool the medical profession into making them think that they have a disorder of the mind which is not there. From what I know it is very hard and very few people can pull off such a stunt. I can only think of two people in history who have managed it well.

For instance I do not have TS and most of the time I am not NV, I think that I would not have the force of will required to fake either TS or being NV at all times and in all places. To be able to fake AS, TS or being NV 24 hours a day and 365 days a year is close to impossible.

Some of the aspies here can fake being NT most of the time, but how many (if any) think that they could do it 24 hours a day, 365 days a year in any setting ?

Yes, I have to agree with the logic presented here by Woodpecker.

The idea of faking autism seems absurd---especially when examining the traits we have had since we were little children. The autistic criteria/traits were extremely apparent in me since I was a little toddler. And those things were apparent in those of you who are on the spectrum as well. We were born autistic. Of course if a person didn't present those symptoms until later in life---well, that's another story. But look at our experiences---read our posts---our life history all the way back to our infancy was filled with those things found under the diagnostic criteria.

I have autism, I'm not afflicted by it, and I'm able to do most of the things that NTs can do, so I'm not really all that "handicapped" as you'd probably like to put it.

Need evidence, please! topic

And I thought I was the only one who read this and really did not fathom it.

If PL is stating that diagnosed AS people are using their Dx as an excuse, he would do well to provide evidence.

If PL is stating that those diagnosed with AS become even more 'dysfunctional' than before, he must also back up this assertion.

If PL is stating that AS individuals can improve themselves with positive thinking, this initially seems like a good thing but could be seen as AS being some sort of bad mood that one could snap out of after being inspired by Dale Carnegie or a religious service.

Not everyone with AS has the same challenges, which impact on daily life. And to make rigid hypotheses is both inaccurate and unreasonable without evidence.

I didn't get the impression that it was duplicating either of the recent threads on the subject of faking autism etc. I think that the subject the OP was trying to address was not about faking, but about why people, whether on the spectrum or not, might actually "want" to be aspergers/autist/on the spectrum at all.

I already posted on page 2 my own thoughts on four reasons why people might actually want to "be" aspie or autie.

I think that it is actually a very important topic, ( and not the same as "faking" it ) because there is something going on with the label, something "odd"/intriguing, which is not just about people wanting to belong to a group or to find excuses for themselves, ( or just to claim support and disability benefits etc ), but also, ( as I already said ), two other things;

a ) One which would probably apply mainly to people on the spectrum; welcoming it because of the spectrum tendency to classify, categorise, order, ideas, objects and people, and to use abstract frameworks to understand/"place" themselves and other people, and ;

b ) the other which could apply to anyone; the almost unique nature of the autism spectrum label, which admits to/"officially recognises" determinism of the person to an unprecedented extent, about behaviour which is not just violent, criminal, sexually "deviant", or short-term as in the case of illness.

The dx is the thin edge of a wedge cracking open society's belief in free will. It is a powerful "idea" and I think people "feel" that about the dx. It's got "mass", and people gravitate/are drawn towards it. There is definitely something noteworthy about how so many people suspect others of not really being A, or suspect and "fear" not being themselves, etc.

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How many people "want" a schizophrenia dx?

There is something special about the A dx, and we see the hostility that it generates ( in the wider population aswell as in the autist community ), every time someone posts a thread casting aspersions on it.

As threads go I think it is actually a very original one; I have not seen one which addressed this issue in the two and a half years that I have been a member of WP. I think that the reason why so many have perceived it as duplicating recent ones on "AS-fakery" is the same reason it was posted; the threads about "faking it" highlighted the issue, "why" would anyone want to do so?

Why is the A dx soooo appealing to some people that many people here feel it needs defending against hangers-on, "fakes"?

I imagine that people who were dx'd in their childhood may not see this so clearly, but many others seem to be so insecure about their own aspergers/autism, ( especially if they do not have a dx ), that any suggestion that people might want it, and fake it, is worrying to them, feels like an attack on their own right to the label, which they must defend themselves against; it is the source of a lot of conflict on a regular basis, and this thread, as far as I am aware, is the first to wonder why a medical dx, supposedly indicating a disorder, might inspire a desire to "have"/"be" it.

Why do so many people worry that they might after all not be autist/aspergers? What do they think they'll lose if they aren't A? I don't think that the reasons for its appeal are as simple, or as "base", as "wanting to be part of a group", or "wanting an excuse" or wanting to claim lots of disability benefit.

I wonder whether many of the people, ( autistic or not ) , who are drawn to the label are those who, at some level, ( however unconsciously ), are fed up with, and questioning, the widespread attitude in our society, ( based on belief in free will ), that people are "praiseworthy" or "blameworthy" for their actions/behaviour.

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PS. And perhaps that is why so many people "worry" about the idea of fakers, because it dilutes the strength of the dx, the power of it, it's determinism. There must be no suggestion that people could behave this way out of "choice".

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I'm waiting for the day an AS diagnosis isn't made by a psychaitrist, but instead by a functional MRI.

http://www.fmri.org/fmri.htm

I don't want to speculate on how common wishing for AS is, but I do think it happens and there are many threads here where people describe particular features of their personalities seemingly hoping that they're autistic. I think the motivation is finding an explanation, an identity and a sense of belonging, a place where they feel less alienated from the world.

I think it would be difficult to fake it for a real professional, but it's probably quite easy to convince yourself that you're right, especially if you can rationalize why others don't agree. I also think it's possible to fool professionals who aren't too knowledgeable about ASDs, but still attempt diagnosis. If you read up on the criteria and choose the appropriate anecdotes from your childhood (leaving out those that would contradict autism) it's not unlikely, especially considering the stories you hear on WP about the incompetence of non-specialists.

I think alienation, social awkwardness, bullying, sensory sensitivities and confused emotions are common enough among people and syndromes that it's entirely possible to see the AS criteria and think you fit the bill although your affliction is something else. Perhaps you identify more with spectrumites, or you are even unaware of the existence of whatever your true condition is.

I think the problem is that the outside world percieves AS with being a nerd. If you're a nerd then you must have as . Phht pick up a book and read about AS people...you'll see why you're insane for actually wanting to be like us!

Just like we'd have to be a bit insane for wanting to be NTs. There, I've said it: I think it's insane to want to change your own brain to the point that your personality and cognitive style are unrecognizable--even if the resulting person would not be disabled.

Except for people diagnosed in childhood or adolescence, didn't adults diagnosed with AS all start out as "self-diagnosed"? Or un-diagnosed? Are they all wannabes, given how prohibitively expensive a diagnosis is?

Since I've had strong suspicions that I have Asperger's (lifelong patterns and family history of nephews diagnosed), I'm seeing a counselor at my state offices to see if I can get some kind of diagnosis or evaluation. I'm trying to be really careful not to jump to conclusions. I don't think I'm a "wannabe." But in hindsight, looking back on my 57 years of life, I'm seeing strong circumstantial evidence.

I'm careful not to misrepresent myself. I don't go around calling myself an Aspie. And I satisfy my need to belong in other ways. I don't need to call myself an Aspie, without a diagnosis, to do that.

I'm not sure if my insights are particularly valuable, but I am someone who believes he has traits of AS, even though I have not been diagnosed. I don't plan to seek a diagnosis, at least not at this point.

(As far as I know) I don't have any obvious physical characteristics of AS, e.g. hand-flapping. I'm still trying to figure out exactly what counts as "stimming", but I don't think I do anything obvious along those lines, either.

However, the idea that I have (mild?) AS explains so much about how my mind works, and how it "feels" to be me. But as you point out, self-diagnosis is not objective.

In my personal and professional life, I don't know of anyone at all who openly claims to have AS. And I can't see how it would be an advantage for someone to be known to have AS. That's one reason why I haven't said anything about my self-diagnosis except to my wife.

I have read some things online that say AS people are by nature more honest and trustworthy than non-AS people. While I do think of *myself* as honest and trustworthy, I don't think it makes sense to say that all AS people are a certain way. Why would we be?

I'm curious to hear others' experiences.

Yes, I feel the same. I think it would be presumptuous to call myself an Aspie or say that I "have AS" without a diagnosis.

And I'd like to add to my previous post that I wasn't looking for a group or a place to belong. I'm not a "joiner", and I have that Groucho Marx thing of not wanting to join a club that would have someone like me as a member. But I feel that there may be people here at WP that understand me, or at least see the world somewhat the way I do.

So in the end, I guess it doesn't really matter to me whether I actually have AS or not. For whatever reason, I seem to have enough in common with the folks here to feel that I'm in the right place.

I have witnessed this before, and it bothers me as well.

I have a cousin, on the NT side of my family (my father's side is strongly affected by Autism/AS), who was always extremely social. She still keeps up with fashion, had no problem with eye contact, and always made fun of me for being awkward. She found out I have AS, and now has been acting that way around me, and just when I'm in the room. She's acting as if she has it. Yet, when she didn't think I was in the room, she was behaving normally again. She has this need to be special, it seems, and wants to have something else added to her list. She stops eye contact, and becomes anti-social when I'm around, even when she's not speaking to me.

I have also witnessed this in a friend of mine. She insisted she had AS, read the symptoms, and started developing them as she read more. It was so upsetting to me, because I struggle with this, and she puts on a show. She thought just because she was misanthropic, this had to explain her. I'm not misanthropic, and I have AS.

While I don't think it's just the self-diagnosed, I am wary at times. But, I am also understanding, as I was self-diagnosed at one time.