What is mental retardation, exactly?

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I don't think having a child's mind is related to mental retardation. Children are no less intelligent than adults. But children do have a very different point of view from adults, are concerned about different things than adults and enjoy different things than adults (most of the time). But do you really have a child's mind? In another post you talked about the volunteer work you do and volunteer work is mainly an adult activity.

No. Children are no less intelligent than adults. They are less wise and less educated, but wisdom and education are not the same thing as intelligence. The simplest description of intelligence is that it is the degree to which somebody can figure things out about their world. Babies start doing this shortly after birth. In babiehood they haven't amassed all that much experience about the world so they do things that look "stupid" to adults or older children because they don't know in advance what the consequences will be. Throwing Cheerios off the highchair onto the floor looks "stupid" to older people, but it is actually very intelligent behavior. It is a series of scientific experiments that teach the baby about gravity. We aren't born with an understanding of gravity but babies figure it out by throwing things and then repeating the experiment to see that they always get the same result. This is intelligent.

Someone might argue that getting to adulthood without picking up at least basic adult knowledge constitutes retardation. We still haven't distinguished, though, whether or not slow and low intelligence are the same thing. If they're different, then "ret*d" does not mean "low intelligence" since by definition, it means slow down, right? That's what it means if you see it on sheet music.. So couldn't you say that putting molasses in the fridge makes it ret*d?
It's so hard to clearly see what any of it actually means, because it all gets wrapped up in all this feel-good political correctness stuff, where everybody wants to insist that there's no such thing as unintelligent or stupid. And how can you possibly distinguish between who has trouble with things because they have low intelligence and who has trouble with things for other reasons, if you can't say that there are some stupid people in the world? So you end up wrapping people with other cognitive problems in with people with low intelligence.. why, as an attempt to pretend that there are no people with low intelligence? All that really does is get the people with other problems stereotyped in with the people with low intelligence.
It hits close to home around here that there are a lot of people who are intelligent but are seen as unintelligent... but it doesn't help that situation to try to deny that there are any people who actually are unintelligent. But you can't say it.. I'm not sure if that's for fear of pissing off the stupid people, or the people who aren't stupid but who some people think are stupid.

well thats what tests say im cognitively as a child, yep i volunteer for a childrens specialized hospital, but that doesnt mean anythin there because there are other volunteers with more severe disabilities who volunteer not are patients, like one of them has cerebral palsy is def developmentally delayed, another one has a form of MR but isn't exactly MR and other many disabilities i just dont know. when i volunteer its like my job, i still play with all the toys, need to be redirected constantly, will wander need supervision, but they work with all types of disabilities so it doesnt matter, they keep me busy to make sure im good, only go there an hour or two a night, which is all i can handle, but its ufn i loove it. i didnt think thats true though a chiild mind is automatically ret*d because then what does that say for the developmentally delayed, u can still be so developmentally delayed and far from ret*d, but jus my thought not entirely sure.

We don't use the mental-age thing anymore, so it's meaningless to say that MR gives you "the mind of a child", even if you are twenty years old with an IQ of 50, because nowadays that does not mean you think and learn like a ten-year-old; it just means you're in the lowest percent or so of the twenty-year-olds who take IQ tests.

Childrens' minds are actually amazing. Kids can do things that adults can't do, especially in the areas that are benefited by a kid's higher ability to re-design his own brain. For example: Language-learning. Music. Sports. All those are learned more quickly by kids than adults... The only reason adults do better at them is that they've had more time than the kids to learn them.

I'm not totally sure which post you were referring to about the mind of a child thing, but Age was saying that she's not mentally ret*d, but does have the mind of a child... that they're separate.

But, um, if that wasn't what you were replying to, just ignore this one.. lol

Hello and happy New Year!!

When I read all these comments, I didn't know what to think. You see, I am really
33 1/2 years old, in terms of chronological age, but emotionally and socially, and
in some ways, mentally, I'm like a 4 1/2 to 5 year old, 95% of people that have
known me for over 3 years tell me. I probably am more closer to an average 5
year old, like around 4 years old and 11 months. Even though I'm 5 feet 11 inches
tall, people think I'm like 21 or 22, although I am 12 years older. I still get carded
in restaurants if I even want to have a margarita. I have high functioning Autism,
not Aspergers. I didn't talk till I was 3 1/2 probably closer to 4 years old.

I absolutely love Care Bears, Teletubbies, Barney, Arthur, Wimzie's House, and
all those PBS children's TV shows. And I love trains, and dinosaurs, and I used to
watch Sesame Street - for about 25 years, recently it's gotten lousy though. I
like kiddie rides at amusement parks, I enjoy being like a little kid, and I have
quite a few friends that are toddlers, preschoolers, or aged younger than 8.
Somehow, even at age 4, most NT children can see that something isn't quite
right with me. They know how an adult behaves, and I certainly am not like one.
No, no one ever said to them "This is what Autism is" or "he has a disability".
Children can tell you are a overgrown version of a child without anyone telling
them that. And it's not like they look down on me or anything, they are very
accepting of me because I am like brethren to them in their eyes.

So, to start off, Spokane Girl:

"I know mental retardation is 70 or below and if the kid scored that low and then his IQ shot up, he was never ret*d in the first place".

Correct. Or maybe he improved to the point that he wasn't ret*d anymore.

Almandite, you wrote this:

Standardized tests can also determine limitations in adaptive behavior, which comprises three skill types:

* Conceptual skills—language and literacy; money, time, and number concepts; and self-direction.
* Social skills—interpersonal skills, social responsibility, self-esteem, gullibility, naïveté (i.e., wariness), social problem solving, and the ability to follow rules/obey laws and to avoid being victimized.
* Practical skills—activities of daily living (personal care), occupational skills, healthcare, travel/transportation, schedules/routines, safety, use of money, use of the telephone.

Well, I lack any self direction. I also lack social skills. Yes, I am able to make social
contact, BUT as much as I can talk, I cannot tell if someone is not interested in
what I have to say during a conversation. Or, I will just interrupt you and butt in with
my question. Or, for example, I won't make direct eye contact with you. Or I'll
keep talking and talking and never give you a chance to even interrupt me, I end
up talking 99% of the time if no one else says "LET ME TALK". Which is
really annoying to some other people, although they are still my friends, surprisingly.
And practical skills - well, I can't hold down a job, no one ever hires me, looked for
a job for 10 years and couldn't find anything, volunteered at a lot of places. I don't
own a car, and can't trust myself even if I had a car to drive more than 25 miles
down the freeway at a time (I have ADHD in addition to my autism too). Safety?
I trust everyone even people I don't know. It's almost like a 4 year old. I don't brush
my teeth unless you remind me, there's a lot of things I am not able to do.
My adaptive age is probably like 4 years old or something. Temple Grandin has
a Ph.D. and is a professor in Colorado at Colorado State University, I believe.
She can drive a truck, and she can hold a job. But I can't. And she says she is
emotionally and socially like a 7 year old. Not only I saw that she wrote that on
the internet, but also, she actually talked on the phone to me and mentioned that.
So there's no way I would be anything more than her in terms of adaptive age.

Okay, b9, you have posted an interesting thing:

"imbeciles" have an IQ of 40-60.
they can be taught repetitive tasks and can work in sheltered workshops. they remain living with their parents or in group care. they are not able to live by themselves.

"imbeciles" seem happy and even excited about things that are very mundane to people with average intelligence.
they can help with domestic duties like setting the table etc.
they still perceive reality, although only the simplest aspects of it.

under "cretin" is "idiot".
"idiots" are between 5-29 IQ.

idiots can not eat without help, and they can not toilet themselves, and they can not walk. they do not control the direction their eyes point in because they have no curiosity even on a crude scale.

a 29 IQ person may be able to follow your finger motion with their eyes for a small while, but if you point at something for them to look at, they will not look there no matter how much you try to tempt them.

under 20, there is no evidence of any attachment to outer reality, and they will not look at anything you thrust in their face.


Okay, then according to your theory, I must be an imbecile functioning with an IQ
of 40-60 (35-40 is like the IQ of a 4 year old!!), because I get very excited about things
that would totally be very mundane to other people. For example, I will go and be
excited about stuff such as like a street map coming in the mail (I collect street maps
as a hobby, I have 1,000 street maps). I will be excited about getting a Care Bears
watch in the mail, or a Care Bears or Teletubbies backpack (I have dozens of
Care Bears and Barney and Teletubbies backpacks). My mom doesn't understand
why I'm so excited about getting a map in the mail from a realtor in the Carolinas or
Georgia, or from some chamber of commerce. And for example, if I can get something
to work the way it should, like a 1983 Care Bears watch to start ticking, I'll jump up
and down and run screaming all around happily. And yes, imbeciles help with
domestic duties. I set up the table for dinner (forks, glasses, etc). Do I perceive
reality?? To some extent, yes I certainly do. But I also am partly in la la land half
of the time. I will stare at a TV with a blank expression like as if there is nothing
on TV, just watching a black screen that is the Sirius satellite oldies station on
Sirius XM, on Direct TV satellite (like Comcast, but a different company).

So does that make me an imbecile then? My IQ is 87, however, I think my
adaptive age is like 4. And I'm planning to move to North carolina in a few months.
I have to drive 50 miles from the airport to my new apartment. I don't know how I
am going to do that. Probably just stop halfway in between, take a rest for 2 hours,
and then go on to my destination. I live in California, so this is a big thing I'm
trying to do. Sure I can walk and I can talk, and feed myself when I am hungry,
and I can go and wipe myself after I s**t, and I can take a shower by myself, but
any good 4 or 5 year old can do that, even. I don't know how to cook, I can only
use a George Foreman Grill to cook salmon. That's all. I lived in college for 3
years, but I always went out to eat - pizza place, Chinese restaurant, McDonald's,
Carl's Jr., and so forth. And anyone can go out to eat. Before adults started
getting very nervous about their children possibly getting abducted and killed in
the 1990s, it wasn't unusual for children - even toddlers - to wander 12 blocks away
to play in a playground. It was very common in the 1980s. Have you ever seen
a 4 or 5 year old going to a restaurant and eating alone or with other children friends
he or she has?? I have. Not as much recently because of child abductions, but
it used to be actually quite common. There was a Sesame Street video in the 1980s
showing 5 year olds taking a bus to go to a park downtown.

And about "idiots", a person under an IQ of 29 might able to follow finger motion
with their eyes for small time, but they will not look at something else no matter
how much you try to tempt them??? What??? No attachment to outer reality
and will not look at anything you thrust in their face?? I know that's incorrect,
because there's a little girl (I shouldn't say little; she's actually chronologically
17 years old on January 8th, tomorrow!!) who lives near Baltimore, Maryland.
Her name is Brooke Greenberg . Now, although she is 17 years old, she
is the height of a 12 month old (or 1 year old, if you prefer to say that). She is
2 feet 6 inches (30 inches tall). Her mental age is about that of a 2 year old maybe
at very best. But, I have to disagree with some of that. If her IQ is even that of a
2 year old, that means that according to what your psychiatrist said, she would
not be able to follow finger motion with their eyes, and would not look at anything
thrust into her face. That is not true, because in People magazine in 2001, when
Brooke was 8 years old back then, one day at school (she goes to a special
education public school which mostly has autistic kids/teens, but also other
developmental disabilities as well), the magazine stated, her teacher passed an
autoharp around the class. He purposely skipped Brooke to see what her reaction
would be. Well, she started making baby sounds and body language that obviously
said that she wasn't going to put up with all of this, that he had given everyone a
chance to look and play with this autoharp other than Brooke. Then, he gave the
autoharp to Brooke, and she took hold of it, and grinned ear to ear!! Her music
teacher said "I didn't know you really cared that much". So that shows you that
she really in some ways, isn't really like a baby. She was on Dateline NBC in
2001 and 2005, and last year in June, 20/20 had a 10 minute segment on her,
and The Learning Channel (TLC) did a one hour long special on her in August
2009. In the TLC special, Brooke actually navigates the hallway in her walker
(she has a walker she uses to walk, like a baby, since she can't walk). Anyway,
in the video, it clearly shows that she has a sense of awareness and navigation,
because she walks from her classroom to the attendance office to give the
attendance office the roll call attendance form. And then she walks back to her
classroom. The fact that she knows WHERE to turn at to go back into her
classroom, clearly shows that she knows a lot more than a 1, or 2 year old. Your
average 18 month old would not be able to walk away somewhere and return back
to the same classroom. I'm not even sure if a 2 year old would be able to do that.
Maybe a 3 year old or 4 year old.

There was a article about a 13 year old with autism. EVERYONE thought she was
mentally like a 3 MONTH OLD. Well, lo and behold, she actually learned how to
type on a computer, and then she was able to write her entire life story almost (I
don't mean she wrote a book, I'm saying she wrote a lot, typically "writing your
life story" is a slang for writing a lot of stuff, like this response here). She was
able to say how living with autism was like in complete sentences, although albeit
on a computer keyboard. Clearly, there wasn't no empty eggshell inside. She is
no smarter than me, or you, or anyone else.

A child's mind in an adult body?? That would probably describe me very well.

Well thanks for your time

Take care

Codi Preston from California

And as one person pointed out, how do you know what a person who is called
"mentally ret*d" is thinking? They might have actually as much intelligence as
someone who has an IQ of 114, but only in a different way, even if they can't speak.
"Empty buckets make more noise", ever heard of that phrase?? Just because one
doesn't speak doesn't mean they are stupid.

There have been people with IQs of 30s who have been brilliant painters. In fact, my
mom doesn't take too much stock in IQ tests and neither do I. I mean, you could have
a bad score on an IQ test one day (like mentally ret*d) and the next time 3 weeks
later have an IQ of 90 because of how you were feeling, or because someone wasn't
there to annoy you. For instance, when I took my SAT, 17 years ago, I didn't do
as well the first time as the second, because the first time there was this girl
sitting near me who kept coughing and was even rude to me in how she was
speaking. She kept coughing the entire friggin time I was doing the SAT. A real
distraction. The second time, I did much much better, like 100 points higher!!

And one more thing: Brooke Greenberg in the ABC 20/20 video you probably saw her
being able to walk with her mom holding her arms. This means she probably will
be walking soon!! And maybe even running. She doesn't age at all though it
seems. But she will get bigger. She grew about 3 inches from the time she was
8 years old to age 16. Based on that calculation, she will be probably the height
of a 3-4 year old (like 3 feet 4 inches??) by the time she is 36 years old, assuming
she lives that long. And then she'll probably be RUNNING on her own, not walking
in a walker, or even walking.

Take care

Codi Preston

I've often heard that standard IQ tests aren't acurate, espicaly with an autistic person. When I was nine years old, and commited to a psychiatric ward, I had an IQ test (at the time I didn't know it was one) and it came back 70.4 or something like that. I can't remember the exact number. I was intensely stressed when I was in the hospital and also talked only about my special intrests (what to an NT would appear as in "her own world"). Today, people who see the things I have created or hear what comes out of my mouth and assume I am some sort of genius.

I thought to be labelled as ret*d then it would have been becausw doctors would prescribe tranquillisers such as valium (or another benzodiazepines) or one of the antipsychotics which would suppress the intelligence quotient below 70. The purpose of these drugs was to suppress the intellectual development of an autistic person in the 1960s and 1970s. In the UK people with an IQ of below 70 are said to have a learning disability. Therefore a form of learning disability that was deliberately caused by allistic professionals by the over prescription of drugs which obviuosly can suppress the intelligence.

I know a man with mental retardation. His mind is no older than 3. But he's not autistic.