The emotional experience of women with AS

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Pretty accurate description of me up until the second last paragraph (the one about woman/daughter). I've never felt compelled to start a family when I'm older and I refuse to conform to society's expectations in this aspect.

However, in school, I've learnt how to be a chameleon. It takes me time to learn how to adapt to a new situation as I need to learn the different unwritten rules and scripts before joining in. If you're not looking closely, I almost seem to be having fluid conversation with others, but that's achieved through intense study of the different cliques in the class and mimicking someone in each clique in order to fit in. I've learnt through negative experiences how each clique works, and now I still barely fit in and I lack a close friend in my class due to the occasional slip up.

Throughout primary school, I didn't have any friends and barely spoke at all to avoid social interaction until I was around 11, where I started mimicking people. When I moved up to secondary school the environment changed completely and I had so many social interaction failures that I regressed to the point where I was considering self-harming, was just staring blankly most of the time and my grades were sliding and no one understood why and all I got were scoldings, scoldings and more scoldings. A two month break helped me to get back into focus but it was a horrible time. Even now the slightest thing (a 2 minute scolding for saying something that isn't socially acceptable) makes me cry for half an hour because it's a reminder that I have failed to communicate in a socially appropriate manner despite my best attempts to do so.

I definitely agree with the last paragraph. There are often very few words that can be used to explain my struggles to others, especially in a place where AS isn't even on the radar for a lot of people (again, my opinion). The constant lying to my parents about my social life so that I don't get a scolding for being antisocial just adds to my problems. There's no way I can get diagnosed because my parents perceive me as being "social" and "friendly" when I'm just flat out lying. I'm often left struggling with emotions I can't express, and when it's too much to handle it spills out and it becomes something that is potentially harmful, although the logical side of me always manages to drag me back to reality before I do anything.

I read a really good article about this issue. here are some excerpts:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/05/magaz ... nted=print

Boys are aware of rejection and bullying, but ... they are not hurt by it to the extent that some girls are. “I have rarely had a male patient with autism ... express such intense emotional pain.”

These girls want to connect with people outside their families. But often they can’t. This thwarted desire may trigger severe anxiety and depression.

“They do things like bursting into tears or lashing out in school, which make them very conspicuous. Their behavior really doesn’t jibe with what’s expected of girls. And that makes their lives very hard.”

There is preliminary evidence that girls and women also vary from the male Asperger’s profile. “Girls with autism are rarely fascinated with numbers and rarely have stores of arcane knowledge, and this is reflected in the interests of females in the general population. The girls are strikingly different from the boys in this respect.” ... That quality may manifest itself in letters rather than numbers.

“These females often feel more compatibility with typical males simply because typical males may be more willing to adhere to the linear, step-by-step form of thinking and conversation — more like debating or playing chess or doing logic.”

Wow, all those excerpts fit me perfectly. Especially the one about being more socially compatible with typical males.

Doesn't fit me at all.

I never felt the need to conform from anyone. I make jokes about not being properly programmed as a child. I never felt the need to try to stuff myself into an image that someone else had of me, though as I grew I became aware that I did not fit the ideas of what people thought I was or should be. I did not care enough about other people to do anything about that though.



I was an only child so I have no ideas about the sibling part. I have no idea about social rejection either as I tended to reject most of those around me. I did not like other kids when I was young... they were loud and annoying and did not use my markers the right way. I preferred most of them to stay away as they just did everything wrong anyhow. I did not have a lot of friends as a child, but I never wanted them. My emotional issues come in play from my mother... long story, but I do have trust issues because of her... though most people in my position (asd or no) would and do as well.



I fall into the man category here... I was happy doing my thing and indulging my own interests. I never had self esteem issues. I knew what I was good at and not so good at and used myself to decide these things and never took other people's thoughts or ideas into consideration... I sometimes forget about the other people...



I do not know how to respond to this. I have a poor understanding of my own emotions, but I do not know if it is because I do not feel a large range of emotions and the ones I do feel, apparently I frequently do not feel correctly. I mean, I often respond wrong emotionally. There are many cases where people think I ought to feel something and I feel nothing or they think I should feel happy but instead I am stressed out and pissed off. I never was good with emotions.



I have said it before and I will say it again, sometimes I think there is a man living inside of me. I am likely not a good female to respond to this as I am an abnormal female in many ways.

I read through this, and honestly think you are overgeneralizing, and with some things I think you are way off (such as the statement this effects women more profoundly and aspie men are content being trainspotters).

You are basing your perspective on a limited pool of experience.

In fact I think you may need to spend more time here.

In general, the one point is the fact that AS impact is more profound on women and that men are content being trainspotters. I think it is much more complex than that. I think it can have a profound impact on a person, but there is also women who are pretty damn happy about thier life either married with a partner, or single for life. It really depends. That is why making sweeping generalizations is a very bad thing. One thing I have noticed is that alot of men here suffer from pretty extreme forms of depression stemming from the inability to find a partner, while alot of women here are in long term relationships or married.

I am saying you are oversimplifying things based on your own experiences. It is far to general, and the fact is if you meet one autistic/aspie, you meet one autistic/aspie. The same applies to women.

i did try and want to fit in when i was at school but i failed of course. yet one day i asked myself whether i really want to blend in and be like the others...the answer was no, not really. it was something that i thought i ought to do and strive for. deep down i knew i very much enjoy doing my own thing and being on my own. i consider it a bonus if i feel "included" on the odd occasion.

Wow some of those behavior of these children explain me LOL! I also talk in sentences without stopping (one of my #1 grammar issues IMO because I read something off to myself in my head and it seems fine but not to the tutor or teacher etc.) Also of course the tiger interest (basically going on and on about the interest getting really into a topic since I'm interested in it.) I feel bad for the girls being depressed and have considered perhaps I have anxiety (not sure though) Thanks for the article!

I think it's true that it's very hard to generalize, but I think it's helpful to find some points in common that women with AS may have that are different from men. That's why I thought the article was interesting. I do feel isolated and depressed because I don't know how to connect with people, and it was interesting to read that's a more common reaction with girls and women, though I'm sure men feel that way too at times.

This is so true. I'm glad things like this are out there...
My boyfriend also has ASD, and while he's not very good at vocal intonation/facial expressions/etc, I've tried extremely hard to learn all those things over the years, as I got lots of poking and prodding and genuine [i]anger[/] at the fact that I didn't use my voice or make faces.
It's far more important for women to be able to do these things, so I literally couldn't make friends until I learned...
Though when it comes to emotional discussions, and breaking the surface, I'm just as bad as (if not worse than) my boyfriend haha.

I can relate to a lot of your post diamonddave.

Off topic, I saw one of your videos on You tube and thought it was very interesting.

OMG this sounds like me. I have always got on better with males for these reasons. And I've had erratic behaviour in school like lashing out and that.
Also my skills aren't usually to do with maths or encyclopedic facts either, I'm more into abstract ideas and what if's which is why my interests at the moment are religion and ape evolution because it allows that.

[quote="Diamonddavej"]
I have learnt that women with AS feel huge pressures to conform imposed on them from the outside world - from society, family and friends. They are pressured to appear "normal", to say & do right things, not appear weird, not look like a freak etc. I have not really felt any outside pressures to be anything - no pressure to copy, mimic, be anything but me. That is so different.


quote] definatly not a diffemce betwen men and women

I remember practicing facial expressions in the mirrors a lot throughout my teenage years, from 13 years old until I was 20 years old. I felt like a cartoon character. Dave, a guy I knew, kept telling me how blank I always looked. I became very self conscious about how I was supposed to look and I did put a whole lot of effort into making the right faces. I couldn't wait til school was out so I could walk home and be myself again.

When I was 21 years old my (ex)husband and I had our pictures taken in a small park with our 6 month old daughter. I just wasn't happy inside, I felt so sad because my (ex)husband was having an affair and I had such a difficult time smiling for the pictures. I struggle when I'm expected to be what I'm not.

Several people from work and college, told me that I didn't act like an officer's wife. I never knew how to interpret comments like those. I watched how other officer's wives acted and tryed hard to emulate their behavior. But I hated all those dinner parties with a passion. For the most part the people were great people. I was just out of my element.

I felt pressure to conform and be fake in many ways so I would fit in. Those are just a few examples of some experiences about how I was supposed to look and act.

DiamondDave, this is a very perceptive thread. I agree there are big differences.

Your observation that men aspies tend to follow their interests and not really care about alot else. In my life I was supposed to learn girl things, of which I had no interest, so I was always seen as a failure - mostly by my family. I have 2 older sisters who did all of the right girl things so I was just a let down and continuously punished and belittled for it. I built radios with my brother and I raised small animals in my room (60 hamsters at one time was my record I think) and read alot but I was supposed to play the piano and care about fashion, etc.

Then I did marry, had children, and now my entire world is caring for all of them and nurturing and household stuff. That brings into play issues like not being able to decorate (and not caring about decorating but realizing very early on that I was a freak if I didn't set up my house in a more standard sense) and now not only having to dress myself appropriately but also dress children - boys and girls - different ages - and in a nice, appropriate yet somewhat fashionable way.

I think all of my life I've had one continous feeling - always that I'm behind. Running late. Never have enough done, can't do the stuff that just keeps me blending in - can't clean or de clutter or buy the right things - there's always too much going on.

Girl aspies tend to have more boundary issue problems too. More of the need to be accepted, need to be liked, overly focusing on others or over sharing and getting into trouble. Even being taken advantage of sexually. When you're naive or don't get the intentions of others and are trying to go along and look like you do, you often can find yourself in bad situations fast. There are plenty of people out there to take advantage of naivete.

With NTs there's this sense of "guys will be guys" and no one expects them to be fashionable or to remember birthdays or organize the household or any of that. The NT women do all of that - help them dress better, keep in touch with the relatives on both sides of the family, tend to the children, deal with the schools and PTAs and organize, decorate and run the household.

With AS guys, they tend to be left more alone to their own interests.

With AS women, the burden of all of that falls to us and if we're not wired right to be able to do it, it just crushes us. I've half jokingly said "I wish I had a wife" for most of my adult life. I worked for many years outside of the home in technical jobs and if I had an NT wife at home to do all that wife stuff, I could have concentrated more on my work and gone further.

Wow...sounds like me.

~Kate