Kid with aspergers (supposedly) gets life in prison

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Etular wrote:

Well...since it's obviously impossible for me to disclose my entire life story here (or anywhere else save perhaps a rather voluminous autobiography) let's just say I have my reasons and I feel they're valid enough. If you're really that intrigued, then all I can suggest is that you read my other posts on WP. These posts may provide you with some at least some insight as to why i'd find suicide desirable if I were capable of it in the first place. Other people may find death/nonexistence preferable to the life i've lived for forty years and I can't say i'd disagree with them. These things can obviously only be determined subjectively so there is no point in discussing the whole matter further.

Why do you find my idea that fear is preventing so "preposterous"? Isn't fear of dying and merely the fact that you don't want to die the same thing? Do you think I don't want to simply because i'd find death less fun than the waterslides at Cedar Point or something? No...I don't want to die because I FEAR the state/s you are referring to here.
This fear is NOT based upon anything I value in my own existence other than existence itself. Nor is it a fear I feel I have any control over, if I did...I would've been dead a long time ago. Thus...it is ultimately an involuntary mechanism keeping me on life support. There is no other reason I should not want to die.

The way I see it....the only point in dying is the relief from an otherwise intolerable existence when such relief cannot be obtained via means which don't involve physical death. What is the point of living if life is no happiness can be gained from one's life? If life is filled with years upon years of hellish pain (psychic and/or physical) from which there is little or no relief? Would you say the same thing to a person who suffering agonizing and delibilitating physical pain from terminal cancer or something?

Why exactly differentiates intense physical pain from intense psychological pain? Is there some reason the former is an understandable reason for wanting to die and the latter an invalid one? Does anyone but the suffering individual have the right to make these sort of determinations? Who says existence is always and everywhere better than nonexistence?
Only the individual...there is obviously no relatively objective determinations which are to be made here.

american and british need widespread reform anyway

I feel for him, to be honest. If he was getting constantly bullied day in day out and no one did anything when he asked for help...yeah...that would warp his mind like soft metal.

I am sorry but there is another child laying dead in a grave that will never get to do the things he loved or feel the love his parents anymore. The knuckle head only deserves the amount of compassion he showed for his victim. Odds are he will be walking the streets some day probably to repeat his crime on another innocent. But until then I hope he suffers regardless of level of sanity.

Well....I can see my previous response to your thoughts about all this had no impact on you whatsover. Needless to say...I wasn't expecting it to and you are entitled to your opinion. It's understandable to me in a sense (emotionally speaking that is) and I respect it
because unlike nazism or something, I CAN understand it on SOME level, if only one which I consider irrational.

Still....I really can't grasp this sort of mentality on a logical level at all. The entire concept of "deserve/s" means nothing to me on that level since none of us are certain whether humans have something which can truly be defined as a "free will" or not. There are many more reasons it makes no sense to me on the rational level and I mentioned most of them in my previous reply to you. And considering that even our courts will, in rare enough instances, find a defendant "not guilty by reason of insanity", i'd say your position here is rather extreme and frankly, quite barbaric IMO.

Isn't it nice that they decided that he with sound mind and malice aforethought went ahead with this. Did they have any proof of this? No, but when is proof necessary. It was clear that this person has serious mental issues that of course were ignored in this case as usual and this was a minor and the judge "had no choice" but to sentence this person to be buried alive. Barbaric. These frightened rabbits there think that this person would be released in six months if not LWOPPed and kill them and their families and their governor and their president, and kill everyone in the entire state! What frightened rabbits they are.

I read that they "proved" that he planned this by claiming that in a forensic class he spoke of how he could commit "the perfect murder", as if stabbing someone in the bathroom is a "perfect murder"!

The U.S. is a barbaric jurisdiction because they have the sentence of LWOPP and also because they sentence minors to said penalty.

The people who were charged with his care bungled things and they're going to bury this person alive for their mistake. Savages they are.

xenon13~



I fully concur with everything you said, so no need to preach to the converted.


Still...there are a few things i'd like to add.


Not of all of the blame here can be laid at the feet of the "powers-that-be".

Needless to say....America is not some Stalinist nation like North Korea and the public DOES have some say of course.

And as evidenced from this very thread....many think this kid "deserves" far more than mere incarceration. Several have wished literal torture on him and i'd say millions of Americans would eagerly endorse it as well. Oh sure....they might object to waterboarding or the Iron Maiden to "save face". But if rape, brutal assault and constant psychological torment doesn't qualify as torture in their eyes.....I don't know what does.

That's exactly what this kid would face in general population in one of our warm and fuzzy state prisons. These people know this and they have admitted they would fully support it.

So yeah...many Americans have a big problem with our judicial system. Plenty who do simply don't think it's nearly punitive enough.

This sort of mentality is relatively unique to America insofar as most, if not all, modern western or westernized nations are concerned. And considering our per capita rate of violent crime, this mentality seems to be working wonders

Millions of Americans (particularily those who define themselves as "conservatives") are just engaged in yet another one their beloved "healthy" competitions here.


This time.... they're competing with Torquemada, the Puritans and other such highly civilized and rational folk.

Many Americans would simply dry up and blow away if they didn't have SOMEONE to demonize and torture.

And/or some holy crusade to wage against socialism, communism, terrorism, (which America has NEVER been guilty of btw. Blacks, Indians, Vietnamese, Cambodians, Laotians, Indoneisans, Iraqis, Filipinos, Nicaraguans, Cubans, Salvadorians, etc... may beg to differ ) liberalism, atheism, hollywood, heavy metal music, hip-hop music, any form of spirituality aside from Judeo-Christianity, video games, secular humanism, drugs, prostitution, evolution, reason, science, books, brain cells, vaccines, cartoon characters who look too effeminate for James Dobson's comfort, etc.....ad infinitum.

Welcome to the United States of Bellevue.

Just to clarify, indeed I would say the same to someone with an illness. Why? Even if you, yourself, have no happiness - they why be selfish enough to not live for the sake of giving others happiness? I spend each and every school day opening doors for countless people who mock me, push me, spit on me, mess up my hair and similar; while every night I spend sat on this computer giving people advice. Why? Due the fact that I feel the need to help others. I feel I could do so much more if I were to not hold those doors open but, by not doing so, I would feel dissatisfied with having not fulfilled my duty of helping others. So, you ask, what is the point of living if you can gain no happiness? Simple - to give others happiness. I spend my days giving others happiness, and take a huge blow to my self-esteem for it. I'm merely a student, so I don't get and money, praise or satisfaction for it; but I do it anyway. I do it for the sake of bettering humanity and, thus, that is another reason of why I am working towards academics - to better the human race at the expense of my own enjoyment. That, in my eyes, is the point of life. Even if you can't help yourself, you can help others. I've done this for years, holding open doors. Receiving both criticism and physical pain from various people (granted, not intense pain, but constant physical pain from random idiots nevertheless). I put up with it. Heck, if you want to die as much as you claim you do, you could stand for your own views in such an extreme way (to help others) that you could be hailed as a martyr for your views if they are ever accepted - "Horus - Died XXXX, Forfeited his life for his beliefs on X.".



With intense physical pain, you cannot help either yourself nor others. With psychological pain you still have the ability to help others, even if you cannot help yourself - and that is the crucial difference. To only help yourself is viewed as a selfish act, whereas to only help others is viewed as a selfless act. Normally, people take a middle-ground, but I fail to see the point in suicide - even if you are upset - when you still have a potential to help others? I view suicide as a purely selfish act for that reason alone.

My thoughts and my prayers are with him.

Maybe that 'child' would have liked to, you know, not bully him to the point of f*****g snapping.

You have AS, right? Are you severe? Do you have rages or fits of any kind? How would you feel if you were shown this same amount of compassion?

Here is what I hope for you. I hope you one day have a meltdown and harm someone who was constantly bullying and overstimulating you.

And I hope you are treated with the exact same approach you show towards this kid.

Yeah, I mean that. Literally. You're cold and you need neither compassion nor adrenaline/oxygen.

You can also help people when you're in extreme physical pain, provided you're not fainting or puking.

Mental pain also DISTORTS your REASONING.

It overwhelms your mind and you fail to see things with a rational person's perspective.

You see that as selfishness? It's called sickness. Someone who thinks of suicide should be considered damaged and given help. Not condemned as selfish.

Etular~


Even if I was a faster typist than I am, it would take me hours to respond to your last post in a manner which I would consider ideal, or close enough to it at least.

I am simply not prepared to so at this time and I may never be.


All I will say here is this and I do so with all due respect:


Your last post strikes me as a presumptuous and unfounded assessment of the pain of others for one thing. Last time I checked...no god died and left you with the authority and ability to fully understand the suffering of another. You comments in that regard make IQ tests seem like a 100% accurate, absolute and monolithic measurement of human intelligence in comparison. Please tell us more about this fantastic psychometric test you've developed which accurately, absolutely and monolithically
measures the pain and suffering of others.


For another thing.....it struck me as a rather condescending lecture motivated by your own inflated ego and little else.

Finally....it was one of greatest displays of one's own "moral" peacock feathers i've yet to see on Wrongplanet. You seem to have a grave misunderstanding of your motivations and an equally grave overestimation of your own self-appointed martyrdom.
A "martyrdom" which is motivated by the same selfishness you claim to deplore in your post. Therefore....I kindly suggest you reconsider your smug self-righteous approach as it will only serve to alienate and devalue others rather than anything you're hoping to achieve.

Sorry if this sounds abrasive and you seem like well-intentioned fellow overall.

Just a bit self-deluded and deceived. Just try to recognize the motives behind your own good intentions and maybe then you'll see that they're not as "selfless" as you appear to believe they are. Doing unto others is a perfectly good thing of course. Everybody benefits. You benefit by the feelings that come with acts of kindness and charity towards others and the starving man benefits when you feed him. But please try not to think of yourself as some kind of a saint. That sort of mentality only serves to place yourself on a unwarranted throne of righteousness and it dehumanizes and devalues others in the process.

Bottom line Etular;

Feeling good about yourself because of what you do for others is one thing. Feeling like a saint who is morally superior to others is quite a different matter entirely. I suggest you limit your ego-ideal to the former.

Last edited by Horus on 09 May 2010, 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Excellent post, Horus.

His post made me want to puke.

Well....I can't say it personally made me want to puke, but your nausea is understandable. His heart seems to be in the right place. He has just made the very common and very forgivable error many "good people" make. He has allowed his heart to go to his head.

And that child will not be brought back to life by nay-saying a years old diagnosis.

The child will not be brought back to life through the suffering of the other boy. The only thing that will result from the other boy suffering is the existence of more suffering in the world. To my knowledge hating has never brought anyone back from the dead or prevented so much as a single crime. Knee jerk de-diagnosis over the internet is in my view no more effective than hatred as either a form of necromancy or a means of preventing crime.

If an insanity defence suceeded, he would not be out on the streets until deemed safe to be so. That's not the case with a fixed term sentence.

mechanicalgirl39~

The thing that troubled me the most about Etular's post is what was at least implied, if not overtly stated, about the pain/suffering of others.

To be fair...I have engaged in this sort of thing myself and it's very easy error to make. Nonetheless...I think it's one of the most destructive errors human beings can make
and it's led to alot more than mere demonization. Even psychologists (who ought to know better) obviously make this error on a regular basis. The following is from the personality assessment section of one of my neuropsych evals:

"Findings on objective (:roll: ) and projective measures are considered to be a valid indicator of Horus' personality profile. Findings suggest that he responds honestly and openly, but shows a strong tendency to exaggerate his psychological turmoil and discomfort" (2nd ). In other words....all it takes to provide a perfect window into my DNA, brain, "soul" and all my life experiences is pencil and paper.

So now these twilight-groping alienists.......who up until very recently still believed that 75% of those with autism are mentally ret*d....believe they are able to "objectively" measure an individual's "psychological turmoil and discomfort"???

This type of mentality is about as unscientific and illogical as it gets. Either that or those who engage in it are omniscient in terms of their knowledge of genetics, epigenetics, neuroscience, psychology, the nature of ultimate reality, etc.....

Simply put.....the pain and suffering of others is something we do not fully understand and may never fully understand. Much of it shall remain forever locked within the mind, body and soul of the individual. Saying "I've been through situation X and I came out with a smile on my face, why has it caused you so much misery then"? is no less ridiculous than saying "I can recite every word of Shakespeare's King Lear why can't you"?

Empathy is one thing. An absurdly presumptuous claim to have the quality and quanity of an individual's pain and suffering down to an exact science is another.