People in the Asperger's group pretending to be autistic

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Or they stim in ways that are less noticeable. For example I pace, sometimes bounce one of my legs a bit while sitting, or drum my fingers. Nothing that would seem like more than restlessness to most people but recently I've been thinking that they're my usual way of stimming. The toe walking doesn't come out unless I'm very low on sleep and/or highly stressed and the hand flapping and hand biting have only happened once each in response to an exciting or stressful hand while playing online poker. Well, maybe more with the hand flapping it took me a while to realize that no I wasn't just shaking tension out of my wrists. I also apparently had a few stims in my youth that faded as I aged.

If the person doing the eyeball diagnosing has been in contact with lots of ASC people of all sorts (different ages, genders, "HF"/"LF", dx'ed young or old, etc.) then maybe they have a leg to stand on, but otherwise it sounds like McCarthyism.

...Especially if the subject of his/her analysis is an older person. I'd even say maybe inconsistent behavior actually makes more sense in that case. No dx when young means no excuses accepted by the world, and you learn how to act all sort of ways to survive. IIRC Donna Williams went so far as to describe nearly literally alternate personalities to deal with different situations.

I did this for a few years. I had eight distinct personalities to use in situations that called for them.

I let myself act more autistic when I'm with other autistic people. I figure, why should I keep such close tabs on myself, if they aren't going to be reading me like NTs would? With autistics, either you can read the body signals that tend to be more like your own; or else you communicate words-only. Either way, there's no reason to go mimicking NTs; it doesn't serve much of a purpose unless you're talking to an autistic who's unusually gifted at NT-reading (they do exist), or unless it's something that can annoy autistics as well as NTs, like not screeching/squealing/making other loud noises that can shock people's auditory processing. (Not that I'm gonna hate you if you do, but don't blame me if I wear earplugs, y'know?)

I don't see how varying behaviour could indicate that someone isn't an Aspie. Doesn't everyone's behaviour change depending on the scenario? For instance I'm notably more 'Autistic' at work or at parties because I'm dealing with a lot of people I don't know. At home or with my friends I'm more relaxed so my condition isn't as obvious.
I hate to cast the blame around, but maybe he's covering his tracks?

Doubt it. People like defining disorders based on how they have it, and especially if the disorder itself is marked with egocentricity, you'll see subjective views on things in most cases.

Sure, I only have one way to interact, but that doesn't mean someone who can interact in more than one way doesn't have an ASD.

I can relate differently to the same person depending on the context. There are a number of people I see at work who I really like and enjoy chatting with, but because I'm working I can keep interactions short and move along. If I find myself in a social situation with the same person I am awkward and my mind will go blank on things to say and sometimes I will start blurting in anxiety to overcompensate. I always cringe when I think back to those blurting episodes.

have u suggested therapy for his paranoia? anyway theres a reason why u cant tell by looking person if he has it or not

despite popular belief we're not made ina factory out oof molds.. aslo i react difrently depending on situation.. manly the level of stimulation.. in parties i vomit.. at home i dont..

I have very different behavior in different environments. I'm old enough to have learned most of the ways I'm "suppose" to act in public and so nobody would guess immediately that I'm an Aspie in most places. But I can't suppress my many natural behaviors for very long periods so anyone that spends more than an hour or so with me is usually acutely aware of it.

to be honest, he did not disclose the names of the people and said explicitly that he does not want to gossip. He mentioned it, and I've asked him further, again, just out of curiosity how people can recognize who's autistic and who isn't. It really stems from another incident I've had two days ago, with one guy in another group I go to that is a general group for people with any developmental disability, who's probably not autistic, deciding that this one person who apparently is diagnosed with AS does not belong in the group because they do not have a developmental disability. It made me wonder, how can people just look at a person and judge whether they have it or not?

Especially people looking for inconsistencies. Personally I don't think people are going to an Autistic/Asperger's group meeting to fake being autistic. I fake being socially capable all day long I have had a long time to perfect my acting.

Anyway, what would a fellow autistic know about other people faking being socially capable? Frankly, I think your 'friend' is the suspicious one.

Exactly, that. And I'd rather have a few people pretending, than have to put up with the Autism Police. It's especially hard for those who either don't fit some given stereotype, or those of us who have unusual forms of autism. I think I did a poll here about whose abilities fluctuated, and a significant number of people's did.

What I can and cannot do depends on many factors both internal and external. It's completely arrogant for anyone outside of my head to claim to know exactly why my abilities or actions vary from situation to situation. And it's oppressive to know I am being watched and judged on it -- it makes me nervous, which then affects my behavior in those situations even more.

So I go beyond what a lot of people here say of "Well they may be faking but it could be real." I'd rather say "They're almost certainly as real as anyone else in the group, and the only good accusations of faking do anyone is prove that autistic people are not incapable of gossip." Even the little seeds of doubt planted in people's minds are insidious, because then they are likely to be less lenient if dome other nonstereotypical behavior comes up.

I have a friend who was just accused of faking. Why? Because she stood up to being bullied by an autistic man. And some people didn't like it so they told her she was faking autism and her other conditions. She pointed out that the reason people always try to look for fake disabled people is generally because they believe somewhere inside them that the accommodations disabled people get are special and different from the accommodations nondisabled people get.

And this idea that disabled people get special privileges means supposedly lots of people want to get them who "shouldn't". But when you look at it, there's nothing wrong with nondisabled people getting those things. Wheelchairs are not mechanically different from bikes or cars, it's just a societal bias that makes them only for disabled people. So why is it that it's okay to be lazy and use a car but not okay to be lazy and use a motorized wheelchair? And yet people who do use motorized wheelchairs have to put up with intense levels of policing (often by people who don't understand the conditions that make people need them, and therefore think you have to be unable to wiggle your toes or walk at all) designed to make sure we are impaired enough to need one. Car drivers are not subject to the same destructive scrutiny.

So my opinion with autistic people is the same as it is with powerchair users -- the scrutiny and stigma of people crying "faker!" is worse for disabled people than the existence of actual fakers is. The scrutiny can actually lead to things like homelessness and death if it's undertaken by the wrong people -- because for disabled people being considered fake can mean we lose things we need to survive. And that price is much higher than the cost of fakers could ever be. My advice is tell the guy you aren't into gossip of that sort whether it's real or not. Doesn't matter, it's more destructive than constructive. Not just because it hurts the individuals accused, but because it promotes an atmosphere of legitimate people worrying about being accused of faking and aids bullies in giving them one more accusation to hurl at people.

For one thing, not all Aspies stim (as you only need that one of three for that section of the DSM), and many stim like me - in such unobtrusive ways (I often tap my toes and since I wear tennis shoes most of the time it's nearly imperceptible. Also remember Asperger's is a syndrome, that means it doesn't express itself the same in everybody. Some aspies are so resistant to change they have a meltdown at the slightest change while some simply prefer routine but can handle change much more readily. Some people have such severe sensory issues simply changing environments is like going through a war zone for them while others have no sensory issues. I have trouble keeping the momentum of a conversation going, but I can talk to my siblings with much more ease. So if someone says "you're not autistic look how easily you talk to your sister" they are only seeing a small peice of my life. It would be like you denying I suffer from depression because I laughed while watching a movie.

Wannabes

Wow, well explained. I was trying to think about how to find a consensus with what that man from my self advocacy group did (by excluding the guy), but I guess there isn't one. He has absolutely no right to have done what he has done. And, come to think of it, I guess there isn't anything wrong with these people being part of the group. Some people consider people who seem to not have a developmental disability to be part of a self advocacy group to be wrong, like this man (whom I've mentioned in my previous post), but from your explanation, I can see that it is completely illogical. If someone wants to pretend that they have a condition and then wish to advocate for themselves on part of that condition, so be it, as long as they genuinely do it for a mutual benefit.

Yes, the self advocacy group thing and the Asperger's group thing are two separate things. The self advocacy group thing happened recently, and that's what really made me think about how different people with ASDs are perceived by others in general, and how someone with such a hidden disability can make headway in the society without being criticized for being a faker. It seems that with a hidden disability, if you speak up too much, and are able to make your own decisions, you're not considered to be disabled anymore. If you don't speak up and actively participate, people accept that you are disabled but then you have limited power in self advocacy.

I've seen websites where people say that Ari Ne'eman is not autistic. It is irritating, and I'm trying to find why exactly people do this. What is their rationale behind it? Is what they're doing justifiable?

There's nothing wrong with the guy who told me this. He's somewhat atypical, but I do believe he's on the spectrum as he's had an assessment twice and was diagnosed with AS both times. I don't see why autistic people would be incapable of gossip. As far as I'm concerned, it isn't specified anywhere in the DSM, nor is it implied by the criteria in the DSM. He didn't particularly enjoy me continuing with this topic once he's mentioned it, and he wanted to stop talking about it. I'm the one who inquired him about the reasons, and I only did it because I was curious about how others can judge whether someone's on the spectrum or not. Based on that information, I wanted to try to see if the decision of the man in my self advocacy group is justifiable.

The only time I have problems with fakers is when they promote a false image of AS, or any other condition for that matter, and as a result people stop taking it seriously. I'm scared that if I disclose my AS, people would laugh because of some stupid association they have in their head. People have to realize that it is a real disability, and there are real limitations as to what someone with AS can do. Even though it's a hidden disability, having certain expectations from someone with AS is similar to expecting someone in a wheelchair to be able to walk.