would you abort if you knew baby will be profoundly ret*d

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would you abort if you knew baby will be profoundly ret*d
no 58%  58%  [ 88 ]
yes 42%  42%  [ 63 ]
Total votes : 151

Sarafina7
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28 May 2010, 10:14 am

No. The child deserves to live. Every person has a purpose.



ALacount
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28 May 2010, 2:29 pm

I cant see a problem with engeneering humaity... geneticly altering humaniyt....... robofying humanity........ it's like giving someone a thousand pounds and telling them only to spend it on buttons... a waste..... since evolution has been efectivly halted..... it must be continued artificially....

as for the abortioning.... if u were to die, instantly, with no knowladge of it, would you care? no. You would be unable to. You are bothered about being alive only becasue you are alive, if u wern't, you wouldent give 2 hoots! Though if a babie was goign to be born very ret*d it would make life dificult for him/her..... it would make life hard for the parents... and it may slow the evolution of humanity. The whole `right to life thing` I find ridiculous.... did saddam husain have a right to life? Aparantly no, as he was rather nasty..... but an unconsious lump of flesh, never having done any good or bad, who cant feel or sense.... is somehow going to care about being dead?



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28 May 2010, 2:57 pm

No, I would not. Everybody deserves a chance and prenatal testing isn't always accurate.

My grandparents lived at a time where abortion wasn't available. When a child with severe problems was born they were usually whisked off to an institution and the family told everybody that they died. My grandmother gave birth to a little girl with Downs Syndrome (then called Mongoloid). My grandfather was the most even tempered peaceful man ever, but when the doctors offered to institutionalize his baby he nearly hit somone. Grandmother said that she never saw him in that state before or after. They took her home and raised her. They spent a lot of money trying to find a cure because at that time trisonomy's weren't yet discovered and they had no idea it was a genetic disorder. They took care of her every day of her life and made sure she was provided for when they passed away. She was a part of all our family gatherings. Because of her my mom volunteered my sister and I to work at Handicamp so we'd grow up comfortable with different people. She was a gift to our family.

If I knew I were a carrier for Tay Sachs or something really painful for the baby like that I might consider having myself sterilized. I may be a carrier for ADHD or ASDs but that stuff is just different not life ruining.



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28 May 2010, 4:00 pm

NO, I don't believe in abortion, and also the prenatal testing can be wrong.



Freak_Contagion
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29 May 2010, 2:58 am

ALacount wrote:
I cant see a problem with engeneering humaity... geneticly altering humaniyt....... robofying humanity........ it's like giving someone a thousand pounds and telling them only to spend it on buttons... a waste..... since evolution has been efectivly halted..... it must be continued artificially....

as for the abortioning.... if u were to die, instantly, with no knowladge of it, would you care? no. You would be unable to. You are bothered about being alive only becasue you are alive, if u wern't, you wouldent give 2 hoots! Though if a babie was goign to be born very ret*d it would make life dificult for him/her..... it would make life hard for the parents... and it may slow the evolution of humanity. The whole `right to life thing` I find ridiculous.... did saddam husain have a right to life? Aparantly no, as he was rather nasty..... but an unconsious lump of flesh, never having done any good or bad, who cant feel or sense.... is somehow going to care about being dead?


Agreed.

In essence, I think emotional attachment (including individuals' attachment to themselves) is where most of the value in a life is. So if a mother does not want to abort her baby, then she should never be forced to abort it, except if it becomes certain that the only way either of them will live is if the child is aborted. This is also why I think it is usually selfish to commit suicide. Of course, when continuing to live is just too horrible for the person, with no hopes of getting better, there is consideration to be had there.

Even according to religious doctrines that would forbid abortion, the child is still benefiting. Life sucks, as they say, and a baby is pure, so the baby will go to heaven or what-have-you without ever having to endure the hardships of life. Sounds like a deal to me! And if you believe in a heaven, but not that innocent babies who've never done anything wrong will go there, then I really worry about you.

Also, over-population is a problem. Resources have to be divided amongst us, and there's only so much to share. If there are fewer people, then that's that much less we split our resources. Women who don't want kids shouldn't be required by law to go through labor to put another person into the world to eat up its resources, IMO, even if they did make a stupid mistake and get pregnant. Obviously, other forms of contraception should come first, but abortion shouldn't be off-limits.


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29 May 2010, 3:22 am

I voted "yes". I never had choice to exist or not and I personnaly think that existence his a curse. I already thought it before being diagnosed.

If I don't kill myself, it isn't because of this bad joke called "instinct of survival" but because I'm a bit curious of what could happen next. The same kind of curiosity that has a scientist who is staring at a bacteria through a microscope.


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29 May 2010, 3:51 am

Quote:
No. The child deserves to live. Every person has a purpose.


You have aspergers and still think that? Ah well.



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29 May 2010, 4:07 am

peterd wrote:
Quote:
No. The child deserves to live. Every person has a purpose.


You have aspergers and still think that? Ah well.

I don't see what much that belief has to do with having AS. >.>; ... It's more like either religious belief, or keeping reason divorced from perception of human worth, neither of which is inherently bad, nor inherently NT behavior. I find the latter somewhat endearing, in truth. Then again, I tend to find most human qualities endearing, from the right mindset. xP


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Danielismyname
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29 May 2010, 6:00 am

No.



Asp-Z
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29 May 2010, 6:04 am

Who am I to decide who should or shouldn't be allowed life?



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29 May 2010, 6:18 am

Yes. I don't believe in divine justice, I think we ought to make the world as fair as it can be. For one such as the child the world is like a glass prison, what's more the child makes life very difficult for those who care for them. It's more humane to not force the child to live a meaningless and mundane life of complete dependence.

Of course that's just my opinion and I wouldn't abort anyone's unborn child, or force this opinion on anyone I'd made pregnant.


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29 May 2010, 6:48 am

Yes, I would. My husband might leave me over it, but I would. It's one of the few things we have agreed not to talk about, because clearly we are not going to change the other's mind. My issue is not with the quality of life my child would have while I am alive. I would love that child and provide the best life possible. My concern is this: what happens when I die?

Do I expect my (presumably) by-then-elderly brother and sister to take her in? Or my by-then middle aged nephews -- should I expect them to take her in" Should they have to go back to parenting -- permanently -- when their own children have just moved out to begin their own lives? Or should I expect those young people, just beginning their careers and possibly marriages or other partnerships, to care for their impaired cousin? None of that seems right or fair.

So do I institutionalize her when I'm getting too old to care for her, eventually leaving her alone with no visitors and no friends? Abuse and rape are all too common, even in private care facilities. And what if the trust I've set aside for her runs out before she passes on? She either gets sent to a state-run institution (where the chances of mistreatment are even higher) or -- and this happens -- she gets tossed out on the street. Or suddenly, my family members still living have an extra expense to keep the cousin institutionalized. I can't bear to think of my child left alone to grow old and die like that. It's terrifying.

Of course, we are talking profound mental retardation here, not mild mental retardation. That's a different question -- if I had, say a child with Down's Syndrome and mild MR, I could see her set up in a halfway house with a job. Who knows, she might even find a partner and get married! I would feel safe leaving behind a child like that. However, I couldn't sheild her from the world forever and my heart would break over all the pain she would go through -- name calling, realizing she's not smart (most people with mild Down's figure this out), realizing that she's different from the other kids she knows, that she'll never be able to do things like drive or go to college (unless it was one with a program for people with Down's), the social ostrazation she'd face. It sounds like a very, very hard life to me and I am not sure I am hard-hearted enough to inflict it on someone else.



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29 May 2010, 8:25 am

Rose_in_Winter wrote:
Yes, I would. My husband might leave me over it, but I would. It's one of the few things we have agreed not to talk about, because clearly we are not going to change the other's mind. My issue is not with the quality of life my child would have while I am alive. I would love that child and provide the best life possible. My concern is this: what happens when I die?

Do I expect my (presumably) by-then-elderly brother and sister to take her in? Or my by-then middle aged nephews -- should I expect them to take her in" Should they have to go back to parenting -- permanently -- when their own children have just moved out to begin their own lives? Or should I expect those young people, just beginning their careers and possibly marriages or other partnerships, to care for their impaired cousin? None of that seems right or fair.

So do I institutionalize her when I'm getting too old to care for her, eventually leaving her alone with no visitors and no friends? Abuse and rape are all too common, even in private care facilities. And what if the trust I've set aside for her runs out before she passes on? She either gets sent to a state-run institution (where the chances of mistreatment are even higher) or -- and this happens -- she gets tossed out on the street. Or suddenly, my family members still living have an extra expense to keep the cousin institutionalized. I can't bear to think of my child left alone to grow old and die like that. It's terrifying.

Of course, we are talking profound mental retardation here, not mild mental retardation. That's a different question -- if I had, say a child with Down's Syndrome and mild MR, I could see her set up in a halfway house with a job. Who knows, she might even find a partner and get married! I would feel safe leaving behind a child like that. However, I couldn't sheild her from the world forever and my heart would break over all the pain she would go through -- name calling, realizing she's not smart (most people with mild Down's figure this out), realizing that she's different from the other kids she knows, that she'll never be able to do things like drive or go to college (unless it was one with a program for people with Down's), the social ostrazation she'd face. It sounds like a very, very hard life to me and I am not sure I am hard-hearted enough to inflict it on someone else.


My thoughts exactly. Some very cogent arguments there. Seeing as I'm male, it's hardly likely to be a decision I'll ever be required to make, but on a hypothetical level I would abort. Seems more humane for everyone concerned, including the child.


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18 Jun 2010, 7:09 am

no what kind of monster would that make me. :roll: :roll:



SnowWhite88
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18 Jun 2010, 11:42 am

Absolutely not. I think everyone deserves a chance at life, people who have severe disabilities are still people too.



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18 Jun 2010, 3:29 pm

I can't tell someone else what to do, but I will say this: I'm a guy and I always use birth control. No exceptions. If I was a woman I would do the same. If I was a woman who became pregnant despite this, then YES. I WOULD ABORT.