Ever felt that the NT world is just a game of let's pretend?

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[quote="KoS"]I am more than aware that people with ASDs (not just aspies) consider any subject outside of their realm of interest or understanding to be superficial./]
BS, it all comews down to the subject. I take no interest in chess, for instance, but I can easily see that the subject has depth.
I take no interest in maths but I see that it isn't superficial either.
Fashion, make up and the weather outsiide is superficial. Not because I'm not interested in it (which I'm not) but because it's a brain dead thing to be preoccupied with. Who cares if the label on the jeans says Levis or Rocky? (Some) nts and no one else.

[I know they consider NTs to be superficial for simply having certain interests and conversations....such as discussing the weather. I know Aspies consider polite formalties (like talking about the weather, or enquiring how a person is feeling even though the answer may be obvious) to be superficial./]
I can see that asking someone if they are upset if they're crying, though the answer is obvious, can be an attempt to ask "What's wrong".
But what you call poite conversation is meaningless words that nts use as part of their own rituals. It may very well have a significance to you, but when you (nts in general,especially psychs) talk about our need for rituals and doing things the same way over and over, then you (who say such things) definitely should take a self-aware class and see your own rittuals for what they are. The beam in your own eye. Does it work for you? Obviously. Does our work for us? Just as obviously.
Yet we're the ones that get hassled for having rituals. No wonder there's a lot of contempt for nts here.
Aspies generally don't like double standards and that what views like that are. Nothing more, noothing less.

[But this is not because these things lack substance or are fake/]
"How are you?"
"Fine thanks, how are you?"
"Fine thanks"
No matter what they're really feeling, and only wanting to hear the answer the ritual demands. Yeah, that's fake.

[it's because people in the spectrum are so inside themselves (aut = self, Autism = selfism) that they can not comprehend the point of these exchanges/]
Au contraire, I get it. It's called ritual and everybody has some, they all have to do with feeling good and secure.
Do I see that you need them? Yes. Do I understand something of what it gives you? When I think of mine I sort of do. Do i understand why those exact rituals give you that? No, not at all.
Do you see that we need ours? No you just think they're weird or pointless, and something you must wean us from. Do you understand that we need them? Maybe, but the attitude is that it's wrong and needs curing. Do you understand why those exact rituals are important to us? No, not at all.
You understand yourself. You understand those who are like you. You do not understand me.
I understand myself and those who are like me. I do not understand you.
You have no more ToM than we do.
But because I am the minority you think you have the right to force us into your world/society in stead of accepting that we're both different, equal and to some point incompatible. We should be living side by side, segregated in some ways, united in others, same as people of different cultures.

[and like I said above, they must label them demeaningly. I don't know why they always see these things in a negative light./]
Look who's talking.

[But you guys aren't better because you don't involve yourselves in these polite exchanges (by choice or inability)/]
And neither are you for the same opposites.

[it's exactly what alienates you from people. I think alot of Aspies are too busy trying to justify themsevles (to themselves) to understand this./]
I don't care squat about alienation, I just want to be myself without getting told how wrong it is because people like you don't get it. I have never felt the need to justify myself to myself, but after 20-25 years one sure gets tired of saying "No, I really do feel this way" and "No, I really am like this" from nts lacking as much ToM in their way as I do in mine. So you don't get, but why do you feel such need to harrass and/or change what you don't get? (nts in general, not you specifically).
Judgemental? Noooooo...

[we don't care that you're not interested!/]
Yet heaven forbid we shouldn't care that you're not interested in our interests.

[quote]Everybody is not you!/]
Right bach atcha

Well, they spend the bulk of their time worrying about what everyone else thinks of them, just so they can talk to their 1,000 "friends" about completely superficial things that bear no significance to anything (mostly celebrity gossip and other such nonsense). Not to mention the pointless smalltalk, where they have to answer in certain ways like a robot, for no real purpose I can see.

I'd say that they become absorbed in this world and can't see past it, which is why they have such a hard time understanding us just because we don't feel we need to constantly be socialising just for the hell of it.

(referring to topic):
Yes, and it is irritating as hell.

Okay. I was worried that my remark somehow offended you and you were reacting to it. If you look back in the thread you'll see that I actually tried to give some constructive commentary for people, yet it doesn't seem like you cared. You just saw people venting thier frustrations and decided it was up to you to show them the errors of their ways / thinking as if they hadn't heard it all before.


You don't really know me so you can't just lump me in with every other aspie. We are not all rude IRL just because we vent about our frustrations on the internet. Some of us do understand the need for politeness and social niceties. Speaking for me, the biggest frustration is that for a large chunk of the population it's really hard to get beyond such ritualistic interaction, especially in large group settings. People seem to have this need to jump around in conversation and change the subject whenever something gets to be too "in depth" for them. Everything stays "on the surface". I can't help it that I find this kind of interaction dissatisfying and tedious.


I don't think it's just a matter of "not getting it". It's a genuine case of frustration because we are in the minority. If you're in the majority it's easy to just ignore the people you find irritating or "weird" and find people you enjoy being around. But when you're in the minority it's much harder to find like minded people IRL. Then it's especially irking to be told if we don't want to be labelled misfits we have to conform and be interested in things that are "popular". It's not just about politeness and social niceties. It's about feeling genuinely different from society and being marginalized for that. And it's not any specific NTs fault either. It's a cultural attitude that gets propagated in the media and on television and it's too ubiquitous to ignore and not take offense. Why is it any wonder that we sometimes have the urge to throw sh*t back at society for this attitude?

Yes, I also don't doubt that there's more to an NT conversation than meets the brain. I'd love to know how we can set about detecting this invisible energy. Is there a method?

i think that right there is the entire issue. if you look back in this thread, it is filled with statements about what nts do, what nts think, or how nts act.

you dont really know me so you cant just lump me in with every other nt =) (using you in the general sense, not referring to a specific person here) we can all say the same thing. each of us is the sum of our parts, nts as well as aspies. you are not your autism just as i am not my lack of autism. aspie or nt, we are each human, each an individual.

ironically, im probably considered nt, but i dont give a rats behind about fashion, style, makeup, parties, etc. i see those things not as nt interests but as societal interests. they are driven by media and corporations after financial gain and are very harmful to actual humans. dont even get me started on that %$@(& victorias secret fashion show they put on tv every year, its disgusting.

what i find REALLY interesting in this particular forum is the amount of posts that are basically "i do/feel/experience X, does anyone else?" its the same thing as conversation between nts. it may not be face to face, but its finding ways to relate to other people, to know you arent alone in the world. its getting that give-and-take, the reciprocity, relating to our world. whether we humans get that from making smalltalk, from stimming, from online forums.... we want that feedback. it may come in a different box, but its the same thing.

You guys shouldn't be mad or against people that aren't like you. They were born the way they were and so were we.

The difference is the audience here is mostly aspies. When aspies here talk about "NTs" with a tone of frustration or disparagement the audience is always other aspies. We aren't going up to a group that's dominantly NT and preaching / talking down to them. I just have a problem with this KoS person seemingly coming here to preach to us. She has a problem with the attitude of her AS sister and the people in a support group she belongs to. She seems to think this entitles her to come here and "teach us a lesson", while projecting that we all have similar issues to her sister.

Anyways, I'm glad you're not shallow. I realize that not all NTs are like that. It's just that from the perspective of people on the autism spectrum it appears that the vast majority of shallow people happen to be NTs. Apparently the need to feel socially connected to a group causes a lot of people to be shallow, thus people on the spectrum are less susceptible to it. In that sense it's hard not to see shallowness as an extreme form of "NTness".

I actually think some NTs suppress the interests and aspects of themselves that might make it easier to relate to people who are ADHD/on the spectrum. So I think that we have to be very careful because in some cases, appearances can be deceiving and it's hard to see just how similar we really are.

That's why I love sci-fi conventions...everyone's united around an interest and it doesn't matter how we got to that point, just that we're there.

Yeah, an existential crisis that makes you ultra-aware of your own mortality and raises your awareness. This will make you go nuts for a while and then you will realize how few things matter in this world and become hungry for this type of energy. Once the hunger manifests itself, you will have no choice but to seek it out.

I already had my crisis, so maybe I already posses this 'ability' but experience it differently, or use different language to describe it. Or I just plain don't. I also had some meditation experiences that 'turned' something new on for me, not sure if it's the same thing.

What would you say changed about you as a result of said crisis, apart from hungering for this 'energy' and being able to understand how NTs utilize it? Do you believe that your brain is different now? I assume you are being serious. Trauma sure can do some funny things to a person, no doubt about that. More information would be appreciated.

All I know is that most of my conscious life I couldn't stand small-talk like this. I was oblivious. But I've been gradually clawing my way out of this trap (with large help of martial arts which forced my brain to understand how spontaneity really works, combined with a propensity for putting myself into social situations I knew would end disastrously, and trying to learn from them)

Then, the existential crises were the straw on the camel's back. I had two. They were extremely unpleasant. They're not like depression, they're just... the most unpleasant thing I ever experienced. They made me realize that since birth we're all cocooned in this glass house that shields us from reality, but some traumatic events can make the walls break, and then it gets very bad.

And then I realized that what contributed to rebuilding those walls was love. Support of other people. Rapport. Energy. Exchange of kindness or just validation and understanding. All simple things, banal even, but they became REAL to me.

I dont want to lump all NT people into one category....they call this bigotry and to me that is an ugly thing!
There are however many people who I just dont get along with and who do irritate me. I could not stand working in the office where I last worked because I would see people hug each other, go to each others house, call each other friends and then say vile things about them behind their backs. This I just couldnt stand....and it is very fake. Im always me, I dont change my personality or pretend to like someone I do not. This is the part of "social interaction" that I simply want no part of.

Thats a subcategory of NTs called 'as*holes'. So they are NT as*holes. Keept them at arms length, minimum.

Word. This is true for NTs as well

Maybe one day there will be a sort of detector, like a metal detector ... but for now, i try and get as interested as posble in the words they say. Listening for voice tone I also do as eye contact is a problem for me.