Self diagnoses = "fake AS?"

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I think of the above more as exercising the ability to think a few moves forward, as if life were a chess game.

If I challenge someone else's self-diagnosis, I might gain the "pleasure of being right" (or of feeling that I am right, of course)

If I don't challenge someone else's self-diagnosis, I might gain the pleasure of a more peaceful social environment in the short term and I might gain the pleasure of knowing I have supported someone else in their struggles, in the long term.

When I weigh one pleasure against the other, the pleasure of accepting someone else's self-diagnosis weighs heavier and so that is what I choose. Both are ways of thinking that involve gain for me, it's just that the latter involves *more* gain for me. It's selfish, really -- I want to live in a world I want to live in and so I try to be the kind of person who creates the kind of world that I want to live in.

It's a matter of being "future-thinking", in my opinion.

I have absolutely no problem with the self diagnosed claiming to be on the spectrum as long as they have a good basis for their diagnosis. There are plenty of test online that seem to be very accurate in assessing ASD's . In fact, there are good reasons NOT to seek an official diagnosis. Some of these reasons include future rejection for health insurance, drivers license restrictions (Maryland requires autism disclosure), the exorbitant cost of diagnosis, and most insidious of all, discrimination. If there is someone who thinks they have ASD, I encourage them to take the various online tests and research the condition afterwords. I recommend taking the tests first in order to mitigate the possibility of unintentional test taker bias. By the way, I am professionaly diagnosed, and I wish I was self diagnosed instead.

I think you are splitting hairs and missing the point. If I tell you you are calling me names, the appropriate response is to ask yourself, and possibly me, "Why does he think that?" I've already told you why I think that (see above). To just keep refining the definition of "name calling" is only to put yourself on the defensive, and justify your action.

I know. That pretty typical AS, and we almost all do it from time to time. The real message I was originally sending was, "You have offended me."

Your responses are saying, "No I haven't, you are misinterpreting what I meant"

Well, if I feel offended, and am telling you so, then you have offended me. Whether you meant to or not is irrelevant.

Now let's take a look at your own analogy:

"You're not a dumb person unless you throw snowballs at windows all the time (or similar action)."

Okay, so a single action doesn't make me dumb, but a continuous one does. Right?

Well, for self diagnosis to be a single action I would have to say, "Hey, I have AS!" then turn around and say, "Well, no I don't think I do have it." Because I have not denied my self diagnosis, but adhere to my self-diagnosis as a continual conviction, the self diagnosis is by nature continuous, and "all the time."

Ergo: "I am dumb!"

Your own logic proves you said it. Doesn't it?

EDIT: My aim isn't to pick on you. It's simply to try to present the way I see it. Nothing more. In all honesty, I'm not really offended at all. I'm pretty thick skinned, and it doesn't bother me if others disagree with me at all. It isn't about being right or wrong. It's about seeing and at least trying to understand another point of view. It's not easy for me either. I get what you're saying. Between the lines, though not directly, you are saying, or at least seem to be saying, "I didn't mean to offend you." But it isn't coming across that way without a lot of reading between the lines and assuming the best of intentions.

I think I see your view point. Correct me if I'm wrong. Can you see mine?

how we (or they, if my self-dx invalidates) flew under the radar is often that AS did not exist as a diagnosis when they were in school.

i can't help but notice most people who start threads like "self-diagnosed people do not have Asperger's" and such are usually very young (so they don't understand growing up pre-diagnosis). and the self-diagnosed usually (but not always) in their 30s +

it makes no sense to keep arguing about this issue and not take that into consideration.

but really it makes more sense to remove "have asperger's - undiagnosed" from the profile options than to keep arguing.

MrXxx i am not answering your questions because i'm as confused as you are. and unfortunately instead of getting people to think before they speak on this topic i'm concerned you have just opened it up for the same stale debate.

i have read that Simon Baron Cohen and Tony Attwood both believe most self-diagnosers are correct. more importantly, who cares.

on the matter of a few people trolling other boards using AS as an excuse, they are trolls; it really has nothing to do with the validity (or reasons for) self-diagnosis.

Oh, this generalisation again.

Yes, you are absolutely correct. EVERYONE who has identified AS in themselves with enough certainty to say "yes, I'm sure I have it" is going around DELIBERATELY being a jerk on messageboards and blaming on their OBVIOUSLY FAKE AS to give the poor little diagnosed people a bad name.
In fact, they are in league with the bullies, and often swap tips with them on how to better upset those with REAL Asperger's.

ITA. I'm sorry OP, but you do seem overly concerned about people thinking you are fake. Why does it matter? I've experienced a huge sense of relief since I've basically admitted to myself that I fit the most of the criteria for AS since it explains so many things, having said that, I am a very mild case. I don't know if I could even get an official DX from just any doctor, I think I could from a very skilled psych but I'm so borderline that I can't be sure.

Anyway, it's not something you have to prove, and you seem to be highly critical of the responses here. You have to realize that some people here may not be as verbal as you and don't have the debate skills tat you have. Of course, many of us do and would happily argue with you but I don't see what all this going and back and forth is gong to solve. It doesn't change who you are. AS describes me almost perfectly, in many ways, and if anyone called me a fake I might be a little upset but it'd honestly be FUNNY, because they don't know me and they don't know what I've been through.

Anyway, it's just a label. I agree with you, though. Those who are professionally diagnosed have no more of an aide what a "real" Aspie looks like., just because they are "real" Aspies themselves. I think an NT who spends as much time as lot of us do researching it may even be able to spot one just as well.

I've seen a number of people say they felt intimidated by the "self-ex'ers are fake" threads here (there was an onslaught of many such threads some months ago). I have have no doubt that those threads have a chilling effect on people joining, posting, asking questions, and/or generally feeling safe and welcome here.

To brush this issue off as a personal neurosis of the OP is naive or shortsighted at best.

Further, if people's dx'ed status was really such a non-issue (as it should be), the "self-dx = fake" threads wouldn't be so common. It apparently matters to some dx'ed people a lot. (You might look at this "Who Can Call Themselves Autistic?) Hopefully, they're just a vocal minority, though.

I'd like to add a few more things concerning those who are "qualified" to make "official" dx's.

One thing I find a bit astounding is the ignorance in the professional community about OCD.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again, OCD is a very well defined, fairly clear cut neurological disorder with very specific manifestations and a very specific and very well understood (as far as these things go) physiological basis. In fact out of all of the neuropsychiatric disorders, it is perhaps one of the best understood.

Despite this, I find time and time again that countless therapists, social workers, psychologists, general practitiones who have been tasked by HMO's to act as psychiatrists, and even some psychiatrists themselves, continually pegging a variety of obsessions, compulsions, anxieties and bad habits as OCD, when they are not.

As it turns out, a surprising number of these professionals only have a layman's understanding of some of the very disorders they are tasked with diagnosing and treating. This comes about because, in academia, a person may really only spend a chapter or so learning about a particular subject. Or a few fragmented weeks at best, and indepth knowledge of the subject is only obtained through true interest in it.

So I have learned in my life, in the realm of neuropsychiatry and mental health, a piece of paper with a label given to you written on it means little except to insurance companies who will try to price gauge you for it, and perhaps to government aid offices, which may or may not decide you qualify for aid depending on various seemingly arbitrary things.

There are people who have OCD and do not have an official diagnosis. There are people who do not have OCD and do have an official diagnosis. And likewise, there are people who have AS and to not have an official diagnosis, and people who do not have AS and do have an official diagnosis. 30 years ago there was no such thing as an AS diagnosis. The bulk of you younger people who did not make the cut as all out autistic would have been brushed off as shy, anti-social, spoiled, trouble makers, stupid, over emotional, cry babies, or a whole host of other things. You would have been bullied on the playgrounds in a time when teachers and parents really didn't care. Your parents would loath you because they wouldn't understand why you couldn't just "be like everyone else" and the school would fail you because there was only one way of learning and if you couldn't learn that way you were either a bad student or just not too bright. The world was a very very hostile place to people who didn't fit in, and this is the world many with AS and other social and non-verbal learning disabilities grew up in.

There are people on here who I do not think have AS or autism. In fact I'm quite sure they do not. But they are here because they have difficulties in life, and in most instances, that is really the only thing that should be relevant, because you do not have to have AS to feel alone in life.

Well of course it matters to some diagnosed people a lot. I don't think that means they should criticize others but I see why they do. I was just asking the OP why it matters so much to him. He's gone hos whole life trying to figure himself out and finally did, I don't think the opinions of people much younger than him who were fortunate enough to get a diagnosis at early age should matter, if they're just doubting him.

He said he doesn't want to be in their "club" if he gets an official dx anyway, I don't really blame him. Having AS doesn't make you just like them anyway.

I joined this site not that long ago, and I almost left again after seeing the hostility, cliquishness, and generally juvenile attitude in these 'self diagnosis = fake diagnosis' threads. I have a diagnosis but, honestly, I don't want to hang out with, or look for advice from people that I can't respect.

Like the OP in this thread, I've seen no supporting arguments, just ad hominem attacks. I'd be interested in seeing studies on the accuracy of self diagnosis, the reasons why older people tend not to be clinically diagnosed, and discussions about whether it is worthwhile getting a diagnosis if you are beyond school/college age. I'm curious about how a diagnosis affects employment and insurance, and the lack of support for and studies on adult aspergers.

Instead, I see nothing but name calling...

And yes, I almost left because of it. And yes, I still might.

Please don't leave just because of a few. Even though I was diagnosed at a very young age with "full blown autism," I was treated in life like I was no different from everyone else. We moved to another state, and my diagnosis did not follow me. I grew up knowing that I was autistic, but I didn't know what being autistic meant. I just knew that I was very different from everybody else. Just a few years ago, I started studying autism, and was re-diagnosed 2 years ago. Ironically, what prompted me to explore autism was the Autism Speaks commercials. I knew that I was autistic, but that I knew what was being said didn't apply to me. When I went to a neurologist for an unrelated problem, I was re-diagnosed with autism on the spot. This occurred after the doctor asked me a few questions. I've also been informally diagnosed as being autistic by almost every speech and occupational therapist that I became acquainted with.

In short, even though I have a "real" diagnosis (autistic disorder 299.00), I grew up with very few services. In between my two diagnosis, I was also incorrectly diagnosed with just about everything under the sun. This is one reason why I have little trust with the "mental health profession." Because of this, I can definitely understand where the "self diagnosed" are coming from. I come from an era where 99% of people like me were locked away in institutions and forgotten. This is what the "experts" wanted my mom to do with me. I'm glad that you are here, and I hope that you will remain. Also, please don't get angry at the people who rail against those who are not officially diagnosed. These people who rail against the self diagnosed have for the most part grown up in a generation where autism and similar conditions are more widely known. This new age is one where there are better tests for detecting autism. Because of new tests and better criteria, there is the impression that autism rates are on the increase. This is not true. Autistic people are being more easily discovered due to the increase in knowledge. I would also say that I don't think it is a good idea to get officially diagnosed unless there is a specific benefit for doing so. This is because even though more is known about autism, there is much discrimination that goes on against autistic people. In my state, autistic people are mostly ineligible for health insurance policies. There is also job discrimination (illegal but very hard to prove). I welcome each and every person who comes here regardless of some "expert's" opinion of them. I'm sure there are a few posers, but once they get tired of the group, they will move on.

Last edited by cyberscan on 14 Jun 2010, 10:13 am, edited 2 times in total.

Personally i think that no one has the right to say what i or someone else has, i have nothing against self-diagnosed AS or Autism poeple, to be honest i never even look to see if your what some call "legit". There were some very great points brought up by the first original poster, who would i be to say that im special because i have a label, i thought thats what this website was for is to except everyone, and you know this is brought up by my parents alot, i'll tell them i cant do something and they will come back with the " What now your special" line, no im not special im just a human who is different, i wont babble on but, i have read both the post against self diagnosis, and the apoligy one and i think this was a big misunderstanding. But thats my side whether it right or wrong i dont know?

Mmm! Would you like some pretzels with your salt?
I just came to say that I think your op was well-written, but unfortunately I have nothing to answer your questions with. I, too, am in the self-diagnosed camp (but sometimes doubt myself what with all the general questioning going on).

Good luck with your diagnosis!

-----Yes the thread has developed nicely.

To add a personal element, for me the process of researching what traits would truly define having HFA/AS was a cautious one in which I wanted to consume as much detail as possible and see if any of it would explain anything about my childhood/adolescence or my present life...

I ultimately wanted to know if I merely shared some similarities in my social difficulties or if there could be more to it. When I set out, I had no idea of the motor, language, and emotional components. I simply stumbled on to the topic from an article written by someone with AS describing their experiences at grocery stores of avoiding scenarios requiring the phrase "excuse me".

After reading an entire book for perspective on the subject, I feel I have a brand new "big-picture" idea of my personality that I've been simply unable to recognize before. The reason why I'd been unable to recognize it is actually well-explained by traits of the spectrum.

Last comment I have on the last round of responses--- I think it should be easy to simply write off the trolling/bullying that seems to surface from time to time as just that... there's no reason to take it seriously or "Feed the trolls". It happens all over the internet, regardless of the topic.

I'm not exactly "worried" about it. Concern is a better term, and there are very good reasons for it. I realize that we are accepted by the vast majority of posters here, but the minority, unfortunately, can be very vocal and very blunt at times, insisting we are all fakes, misleading many who may only momentarily feel the same way without much in the way of good reason to feel so. Posting about it often opens some eyes and minds to things they hadn't considered. In this case, it actually DID. The originator of the thread that inspired me to start this one, did eventually see and consider some of the very things I hoped he would.

It is often the few who influence the opinions of many, based on too little awareness. This is a topic that will probably never go away. Not talking about it solves nothing. I'm not out to "change the world" single-handed. Only to keep the discussion open, as I think it should be.


I don't really have an opinion of you to begin with, other than your previous acceptance with self-diagnosing yourself was dumb. I know nothing else about you. You'd just be another autistic on here.[/quote]



While I agree that it shouldn't be something I have to prove to some extent, the reality is, YES I DO HAVE TO PROVE IT! I have to because it is due to close minded opinions like this, extended into the professional community that is the very reason it took over seven years to obtain a diagnosis for one of my sons. During that first seven years of bringing him to doctors to be evaluated, we were met with everything from rolling eyes, to blank stares the moment we mentioned we had been reading about Asperger's. WE KNEW he had it, yet no professional for seven straight years would perform a proper evaluation on him. Every one of them dismissed it, based on the very same attitude I see on forums like this. We diagnosed him, therefore, he must not have it.

We GAVE UP, because NO ONE would listen! Then, when he was in third grade, the school psycologist, whom we had never met, and knew NOTHING about our AS concerns, called us in for a meeting and announced that not only did HE have AS, but so did his younger brother, whom we never even suspected!

THAT is why it matters! And that is why, sometimes, yes we do have to prove it, because without proof, there are no services, there is no support, and no one who really matters in terms of support and services will listen!



From a purely "Aspie perspective," someone who has learned to adjust and find themselves a neat groove within which they can function well, relatively undisturbed, and content, this is true.

But when your AS interferes drastically with normal functioning, to the point where life is constant chaos and crises management, it is far MORE than "just a label." It's a key that opens doors, clears away skepticism, and gets us the help we need to cope. Without it, there is none of that.



I agree, just being diagnosed doesn't make anyone an expert. Personal, well structured research does. And that's true whether your an Aspie or an NT, or a Schizophrenic from Kapax.



This, I don't necessarily agree with. It's been my experience that many NT's who have actually researched AS in depth, know very well what the text books have to say, and very well what they know about the Aspies they've worked with. Unfortunately, we have also found that most we have met still tend to formulate a preconceived idea of what AS "looks like" based on the Aspies they have worked with. Too many of them think that just because they've worked with ten or twelve DX'd Aspies, they now "know what Asperger's looks like."

Thank god we have been able to convince at least a few that even though you may have worked with Asperger's before, it doesn't mean you know our kids, and exactly how to deal with them. It takes quite a bit to convince some of them that AS is a very broad spectrum. Our experience has been that all but one professional we've worked with had a much narrower view of what AS is than they believed.

I agree completely, and do just that, IF I am certain what I'm seeing is just "trolling."

I'm not convinced any responses to this thread are trolls. I try not to make that assumption. I try my best to treat every response as if it's a genuinely honest response from someone either trying to understand, or trying to help me understand.

It takes quite a lot to cause me to stop responding altogether. I try to assume the best intentions in everyone. This is an Asperger's forum. Bluntness is one of our most common traits. It would take a lot more than mere bluntness for me to judge someone as a troll.