07 Jul 2010, 6:44 pm
azurecrayon wrote:
but i guess thats just my inferior nt-ness showing
Actually, it was the rest of your post which showed that. I think you're really reacting far too emotionally to a post which was supposed to have a much more logical use. In doing so you miss the point and aggravate the argument.
How about trying to respond based on things you do agree on? Like how he said that he has preconceived ideas about people (like all humans) and is open to learning more about people on a person to person basis? That is essentially what you just said, so it looks like you agree.
manifoldrob wrote:
When you work with someone or know someone you get to know them and your opinion of them changes. If after finding you are a wonderful person they still didn't befriend you just because you didn't have AS that would seem very wrong to me, but that's kind of an unlikely scenario. After all, Spock had great friendships with humans.
See? Azurecrayon, it would seem from the overall tone of his post that you are in agreement, just coming from (surprise, surprise) different experiences. So even though he is an arrogant aspie, and you are an inferior nt, you would probably both vote on the same laws regarding human rights or whatever.
Now, I find that sort of misunderstanding totally baffling, but this is probably how you act all the time. I wish you'd tone it down a bit around me though, since I'm toning down my condescension towards you.
07 Jul 2010, 10:29 pm
07 Jul 2010, 10:37 pm
Apx wrote:
I think you're really reacting far too emotionally to a post which was supposed to have a much more logical use.
and i think you ASSUME i am reacting emotionally simply because i am nt. i am actually a very logical thinker and not likely to react emotionally to a post by a stranger on the internet =)
Apx wrote:
How about trying to respond based on things you do agree on?
that would be illogical because i didnt have a question about any of those things. i asked a question because i was genuinely curious about his answer. i'd still like to hear his answer. and i highly doubt manifoldrob needs me to clap for the things we have in agreement or statements of his i approve of. something tells me his ego doesnt need that stroking =P
im not exactly sure why you felt the need to attack me or to repeatedly defend him in this thread. perhaps you are reacting too emotionally?
Apx wrote:
Now, I find that sort of misunderstanding totally baffling, but this is probably how you act all the time. I wish you'd tone it down a bit around me though, since I'm toning down my condescension towards you.
awww, i am sorry to tell you, you are failing miserably =( better luck next time =P but you inspire me to try to tone down my sarcasm!
07 Jul 2010, 11:06 pm
azurecrayon wrote:
and i think you ASSUME i am reacting emotionally simply because i am nt. i am actually a very logical thinker and not likely to react emotionally to a post by a stranger on the internet =)
What I meant by that specifically was from an emotional point of view. For example, there was a study done on ASD/NT people to see how they reacted differently to questions when phrased with triggering emotional language. In the study even questions which were phrased with emotional language were generally taken logically by the ASD participants, whereas the NT participants were more subject to emotional distractions. I'm sorry I don't remember where the study was offhand, as the nature of questioning might be handy to quote here.
The way I considered that an emotional response was that it seemed to disregard (what seemed to me) the obvious point of the post, and focused on the emotionally triggering topic of homeless people. To me it seems that it's obvious the poster is capable of getting to know people on a person to person basis, so the question you asked seems odd.
Combined with the use of "inferior NT" it seemed as if you were reacting more than comprehending.
Quote:
that would be illogical because i didnt have a question about any of those things. i asked a question because i was genuinely curious about his answer. i'd still like to hear his answer. and i highly doubt manifoldrob needs me to clap for the things we have in agreement or statements of his i approve of. something tells me his ego doesnt need that stroking =P
Ah... Ok. Well, at this point I am curious now too. I would personally be pretty irritated if someone asked me such a thing, so I wonder if he's a nicer person than me.
Quote:
im not exactly sure why you felt the need to attack me or to repeatedly defend him in this thread. perhaps you are reacting too emotionally?
One of my rules in life is to defend the people I agree with.
Quote:
awww, i am sorry to tell you, you are failing miserably =( better luck next time =P but you inspire me to try to tone down my sarcasm!
I know I need practice, but I am trying!
08 Jul 2010, 5:44 am
08 Jul 2010, 6:05 am
08 Jul 2010, 2:08 pm
azurecrayon wrote:
manifoldrob wrote:
I once mistook a Romanian mathematician for a homeless person on a city bus. I was able to revise my opinion rather quickly and had a nice conversation.
im curious to know, did you try to converse with the person when you thought they were homeless, and if not,
I remember it well. My usual bus seat had someone nearby so I had to sit in the more open section. There was an old man nearby. He had long hair and a bear and a dark maroon, shabby looking coat - sportcoat, and he had several plastic bags on the seat next to him. One bright orange and very worn. I assumed he was some derelict and carefully avoided catching his eye.
I took out my math text and started reading. After a few minutes he leaned towards me and said something to the effect of "What is that there?"
I though "Oh no, this is going to be a long bus ride, please don't slobber on me or other wise touch me." But then I realized he had a heavy accent, and few derelicts do. I showed him the cover and said it was a book on Topology. He then lit up and explained he was a retired math professor from Romania visiting his daughter. He said his specialty was differential geometry. We ended up having a nice discussion about Riemannian spaces. At the end of the ride I directed him to the right metro platform and that was it. Very nice.
azurecrayon wrote:
...couldnt you have had a nice conversation with them even if you still thought they were homeless?
Yes I could, if the other person started to talk first, or was reading a math book. My idea of a nice conversation is actually talking about interesting things, not small talk. One of my favorite mathematicians, Paul Erdos, was practically homeless. If you ever get a chance, I recommend you read "The Man Who Loved Only Numbers" by Paul Hoffman.
azurecrayon wrote:
we are each the sum of our experiences, we are not just a snapshot of who you see at one moment in time. people can be fascinating creatures with interesting stories, regardless of whether they are homeless or a mathematician. thats one of the problems with generalizations and prejudices, you dont get past that snapshot.
Agreed, but we are forced to make judgment calls based on limited information, based on that snapshot. We all do it, even you. You may want to engage strangers on a bus. I would rather be left alone.
azurecrayon wrote:
but then i come from a completely different place than you do. i believe respect is deserved. i believe people deserve to be respected as human beings, as fellow sentient creatures on this planet we all share. until they do something to retract that respect, i give it freely. but i guess thats just my inferior nt-ness showing, shame on me for being so accepting of people 
I won't tell anyone.
Seriously, you and I know there's nothing wrong with being outgoing and accepting of others, except perhaps a slightly elevated chance of you being abducted and murdered, not statistically significant. Perhaps yields a rich social life for you. I don't have the social skills you have. Furthermore, luckily, I don't want them. There's nothing wrong with being introverted and guarded.
08 Jul 2010, 2:49 pm
DenvrDave
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08 Jul 2010, 3:01 pm
08 Jul 2010, 3:34 pm
First of all CocoRock, you have to grow a tough skin around this board to make it. I hope you stick around.
To the OP, I would just like to say that there are many small minded people out there (NT or otherwise) that will judge you and treat you harshly because you are different. I would, however, like to point out that this is not a trait solely displayed by neuro typical people. Hatred, Judgment, Bullying happens to neurologically typical people too. What a lot of people here on WP don't seem to realize is that many segments of society are deemed inadequate, strange, or less-capable merely because of the fact that they are different. You don't have to be an Aspie to be different and ridiculed (as is clearly demonstrated by your reference to NT's as less than intelligent). I know that this board focuses on AS so that is your perspective but I just wanted to broaden it a bit.
Also, there are many NT's that celebrate and embrace diversity of all types.
So I hope that all of you that have expressed loathing and hatred for NT's rethink your stance, perhaps use a bit of the Aspie intellectual reasoning and deduce that your hatred is merely a misguided and probably mislabeled reaction to the pain and suffering you've endured at the hands of MEAN, SMALL MINDED people that weren't necessarily NT's.
And just for the record I am am not an aspie but my brother and my daughter are. I suffered terrible beatings from my brother as a child but he is nicer to me now. I like to think we are all different in some way. I tell my daughter everyone has strengths and weaknesses, what is more important is what you do with them. 
08 Jul 2010, 3:47 pm
08 Jul 2010, 4:48 pm
Mama_to_Grace wrote:
your hatred
What is with you people? Hatred? Are you serious? How can we even have a serious conversation with you guys when you make such erroneous emotionally charged judgments? Honestly, I wonder.
I'm sorry, but for the most part, I don't even feel much, let alone hatred. I generally only feel the emotions which are strong enough to affect my body. Otherwise I am a dark chasm of intellectual lust, responding only to information, other intelligent people, or when I know I've failed or succeeded in a way that matters deeply to me.
I don't hate NTs. They often bore and irritate the hell out of me, but my hate is reserved for some very special people IRL who I perceive as enemies of truth and justice. Hating all people with poor reasoning skills would just be mean, and exhausting. Being honest about it, however, keeps me sane.
*shakes head* honestly... hate????
Quote:
And just for the record I am am not an aspie but my brother and my daughter are.
Obviously. For your daughters sake, you really need to open your eyes to reality a bit here. As nice and tolerant as you may think you are, your inability to truly comprehend something so simple is going to upset her if she's at all intelligent. By your articulate post I would say she probably got the good end of the aspie stick, and therefore you are in trouble!
DenvrDave wrote:
manifoldrob, there are a couple of excellent forums on WP with some top-notch debaters who appear to love the art of argument, I suggest you check out Politics, Philosophy and Religion (PPR) and Autism Politics, Activism, and Media Representation (APM).
Oh no you didn't. You did not just tell an aspie to go hide in the library, did you? I totally understand your well-meaning-ness here, but Coco is clearly disturbed, and could just as well be asked to frequent the Haven. I don't see how marginalizing an aspie in yet another social environment is ok. And defending your own ideas is so wrong you should only do it in a debate forum?
Honestly, I don't hate you guys, but your thought processes totally bewilder me.
:doesn't get it at all:
08 Jul 2010, 5:00 pm
08 Jul 2010, 5:07 pm
Apx wrote:
Obviously. For your daughters sake, you really need to open your eyes to reality a bit here. As nice and tolerant as you may think you are, your inability to truly comprehend something so simple is going to upset her if she's at all intelligent. By your articulate post I would say she probably got the good end of the aspie stick, and therefore you are in trouble!
What reality should I open my eyes to? To the fact that she will, just by the fact that she is neurologically different, not be tolerant of other's actions or views and see them as petty by virtue of her profound intelligence?
What simple thing am I not comprehending? The reasons Aspies "feel" alienated and judged? I hope that I can be tolerant of her differences and teach her to be tolerant of all diversity in the world. I also don't want her to have a superiority complex as my brother does. Yes, he is superior in many ways but as I said we all have our own unique strengths and weaknesses. No one is perfect.
08 Jul 2010, 5:38 pm
DenvrDave
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08 Jul 2010, 5:40 pm
