Isn't it time to speak up against NTs?

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You took that out of context. My main premise was that we cause discomfort and pain to NT's, which is absolutely true. If we say things and do things that hurt NT's emotionally then why do they have a reason to be around us? Should they hang around us for the pleasure of being abused? It is not a parallel to racism or sexual prejudice so don't even try.

Not eveyone who has AS makes everyone around them miserable however (lol). And often this stuff starts very early on in school because there is something "wrong" or "weird" with being different. So - there is a difference between saying that some people are very anti-social or miserable and who would want to be around them and to say that we must meet a certain level of normalcy before "they" have to accept us. NTs don't have to like us but they have to accept the fact that we have the right to be on the same planet as they do.

That sounds like you're afraid of NTs. That sounds like you want to have all aspies brought in together in their little corner of the globe and live amongst one another. Maybe we could create aspie housing projects and so forth. Then, we can rid the NTs out of our lives. We can have aspie employment services and businesses run and operated by only aspies. We could maybe have our own little aspie state.

That all and well sounds like a nice idea. I'd like to see it.

- Ray M -

Standing up against NT people would only cause a lot of conflicts and help nothing. It would neither bring peace nor more acceptance to any side. It is,in fact,very childish to become angry if somebody closes different and so on.But we cannot change that by becoming angry at them ourselves. We first have to have a different behaviour, but even then, it’s not about changing their behavior. Also, it is necessary not to base one’s hope on future social changes because this is an utopia and utopias have the characteristics of unrealistic and can cause much harm if tried to be put into action.
No, the only way to deal with this is to endure it.Only then,we are really “better” than them,but this is not the point.It is always very easy to demand acceptance from other people, but who is going to give acceptance for himself? If nothing does that(i.e. give acceptance in the first place), then there is no acceptance at all. So it is necessary to give acceptance even if it’s not given back in return.

I aint afraid of nothin 'cept spiders. I do quite well with NT's, thank you very much. Any how you're trailing off topic. While not all Aspies cause trouble for NT's I find that the ones that complain about being excluded typically do. Those that can successfully integrate do so and don't start us vs them threads.

Let's just all get along. Overall, that is my motto.

Maybe some aspies can't get along, however. For them, they should get together and form their own little community. If NTs want to join, that'd be fine as long as they don't show disrespect.

I don't believe most aspies cause trouble for NTs, but they would probably function at best in places like employment were they amongst one another.

- Ray M -

Looks like it's you and me against the world, Truth-seeker... when do we attack?

It's true that aspies could benefit from thinking more like neurotypicals, but the NTs could DEFINITELY benefit from thinking more like us. Thesis and antithesis need to be brought to synthesis, and it isn't the normals who are going to do it. I REFUSE to accept that it is our place merely to merge into the dominant paradigm as best we can, hoping for acceptance as some sort of second-class citizens. A pox on you Aspie Toms! The ability to compliment your coworker on their hideous new haircut and then rehash some joke you heard last night on Will and Grace is not some golden chalice of human behavior floating forever over our heads! It's the "Have a Purr-fect Day!" mug with the indelible coffee stains and the chip in the side. I WILL take an "us vs. them" stance, NOT because I expect to win, but because I KNOW things could be better for ALL of us, autistic and NT alike, than they are now. It's EVERYBODY'S job to try and make the world a better place. And if that means I have to take un an artificially radical stance to make up for all the apathetics and apologists amongst us, so be it.

At times, I'm beginning to wonder if I'm being misunderstood by those that are generally misunderstood as well. Yes, the first post was written out of angry and possibly not expressed the best way, but isn't that something Aspies suffer a lot more from then NTs on average?

Yes, I do have this whole “me vs. the world” thing going on, but so far, it's only be angry words, rather then punches and other physical conflicts. I don't plan on “rebelling” by drawing arms or anything. I rather not fall into the same “trap” that others have fell into, treating those the same way they have been treated. But there is one thing however. I don't go around saying things like “your taste of music sucks” people, but they mainly do such a thing to me. I only defend myself with something like “why do you care?” after they did something first.

Sorting out the FRIENDS from “friends” can be quite hard. I can't really consider someone a friend if I can't come out to them about hardly anything without being rejected. I can tell just by seeing how they at toward others if their worthy of befriending or not. But I won't know all that much about them till I start interacting with them myself.

Personally from what I seen in adults, I'm not really sure if their more accepting or not. I didn't experience working in any kind of job around other adults yet, but I still can't help but feel it won't be all that much better. Only time will tell now, at least for me.

I'm not sure if I already said it, but I don't believe I ever said I had a problem with who I was. I don't see myself as the problem, but them. What have I ever done to those people? I usually don't even talk to them at all. I'm not “I'm different, poor me”, but “I'm different, got a problem with it? Too bad.” By this whole AS vs NT thing, I don't mean fight back with the same stuff they do, but generally fight for both sides to be happy. Not only was the issue brought up out of angry, but also because from what I learned of the “normal” mind set of an AS and NT, NTs seem more likely to do this stuff. This may seem like another case “NTs are bad!”, but only those, including Aspies, that cause problems for people for simply being different.

For me, I only had more problems in “special needs” classes then regular classes. I don't know if everyone in the special needs classes had AS or not, but they didn't fit into being regular classes. In either case, it seems like I have problems with everyone, NT, AS, or whatever.

Spieder, I pretty much disagree with nearly everything you said. This is the kind of thinking that will ensure Aspies are seen as a threat for many more years to come.

From my understanding, it's always the minority that suffers the most, even if the minority is only 49%. You're saying “they” never did anything to hurt “us”? I don't go around telling people I have AS. Does the general public even know what AS is? What good does keeping in the closet about something do toward helping it get accepted? I think I can somewhat compare this to gays. Sure there is a lot of homophobia around, but if a lot more gays kept in the closet about who they were, then wouldn't it be even worst? Ok, so it's much easier to hide what gender you make love to then your everyday actions. I was born with AS, I'm not a NT who decided to pretend to be Aspie. Is my very birth that I had no control of something I should be punished for?

How is it a double standard to what to fit into society and be accepted for who you are? How are my thoughts and beliefs hurting anyone? How does not dressing in the same clothes or listening to the same music as many people hurt them? They choose to think it's something wrong that others are not quite like them. Why should I be at fault? You're right, we can't be separate and equal, that's why we need to stop being separated. If both NTs and Aspies understood and accepted each other, there would be a lot less problems wouldn't there? As soon as AS stops being a disorder, things might get much better. Couldn't this also be compared to racism and sexism? Blacks didn't choose to be born black in a racism county and women didn't choose to be born girls in a sexism county. Again, is something you're born with worth being punished for?

You're saying it's not truly terrible what NTs can put Aspies do? What about slaves who hurt their masters? You only seem to thinking of AS as a problem and that “we” should have to deal with being treated worse then the “average person”. You only seem to be looking at any harm Aspies have caused to NTs, not vice versa. Kinda like not looking at any harm masters have caused to slaves, but only any harm slaves caused to masters. So you're saying Aspies shouldn't have the same rights to be accepted and treated as human beings like everyone else who doesn't have AS? Blacks shouldn't mix with whites? Yes, I understand AS is behavior while being black is mainly just skin color.

As for expecting others to confront to a particular standard, isn't nearly everyone guilty of that? People fighting for rights usually fight not only to be accepted, but also to expect others to accept them. Women in the past expected others to confront to a standard where they can vote and have other rights that men do. Blacks fought to expect others to treat them the same as whites.

While NT and AS isn't quite black n' white, it's more common for people to fit a lot closer to one end then another. It would be like saying heterosexual and homosexual or black and white. Who is 100% of either of those? But that doesn't automatic label you as bisexual either. Again, I noticed it's always the minority that suffers the most. There seems to be loss Aspies then NTs and possibly even less that fall into the gray area, not ¾ black or white.

I likely misunderstand the following a bit, but how does not standing up make anything better? How does simply enduring it lead toward Aspies being more accepted? Wouldn't that only let people think Aspies are weak and shouldn't be treated equally? Again, I could compare this to racism and sexism. Standing up doesn't mean fighting back with the same ignorance and narrow-mindedness. For me, it's hard not to become angry for being treated badly (not quite like crap, yet) just for being different and not hurting anyone. Again, they choose to be hurt by someone being different. I accept myself, but I can't speak for the rest of Aspies on that matter. Yes, self-acceptance is important, but does it mean it should stop there?

Isn't the only way for NTs, Aspies, and whatever to live more peacefully together to shake hands, understand each other a lot more and believe neither of us have any kind of disorder? As of now, I'm just so tired of living my life fighting and not enjoying it, even among other Aspies I may have had to deal with in life. If I have to fight so those in the future won't have to, then so be it, but a “normal” life for me is out of the option.

I'm willing to meet them halfway, maybe a little more. I admit I get a little angry at NTs in general. OK a lot angry. I have to keep reminding myself that they are not all ignorant and mean. Because they're not. With some of us it's just going to take some time, and dealing with the ones who are ignorant can make us forget. I think those of you who say it can get easier as you get past a certain age are probably right. And growing up is hard no matter what, I would never go back to those years. There are two questions I'm still struggling with though. Why do some of them fear us? and Why do some of them seem to resent us before they really know us?

I don't think AS is a disorder. I think it's a personality type. Like any personality type, it has its advantages and disadvantages, but neither in my mind is better or worse. The only reason why AS has been identified as a psychiatric condition, in my opinion, is because it's in the minority. And we, as a minority, have a hard time adjusting to the majority.

Very interesting thoughts. I like the personality type idea. I'm going to be thinking on that post for awhile.

Did my loopy-a** post set off ALL THAT?

...or did that happen IN SPITE OF me? I can't tell.

Top-shelf material either way. I may have to freak out in the forums more often.

Definitely worth the wait.

Spieder, I disagree with what you say. In what ways do we aspies cause pain and discomfort to NT's? Because whenever I was bullied, the NT was the one who started it. I am usually quiet and minding my own business and it is the NT who comes in my face and tries to start sh!t with me.

I also don't buy into the fact that we have to accept second best because we are not in the majority.

NTs are not the problem, and it's not our fault.

It is not a group of people, but an attitude. Returning back what they do will only make things worse. You don't defeat suffering with suffering.


So no, I'm not going to "Stand up against the NTs", I'll stand up to ignorance, and at times the ignorant. But I will not make personal attacks against people that I do not know, and therefore should not claim that I "know" their nature.

We've got enough problems as is.


Which is not to say that I haven't thought of using how the NTs treat us Aspies for the basis of stand up comedy