What would an education system for autistics be like?

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I think one problem with the schools today is a failure to find comfort in the classroom. Be it sensory or the company or the teacher or what have you. Having an 'introduction week' before classes actually begin, in which you are freely allowed to 'bounce' between classrooms (three gade 4 classrooms, each with different colours / desk setups / teachers) until you figure out which one you like best (yeah I know, three rooms doesn't allow for all variables to be weeded out but it offers the chance to chooooose based on your own criteria, and it'd be better than what there is now).

MY biggest problem in school was teachers that didn't really give a damn hell about whhat they were teaching or whether the students were keeping up. This meant not only that the teachers were boring, but that, in not caring about their subject, they also weren't terribly effective (or capable) of re-explaining it in new ways to those that didn't get it the first time.

Heck, in my school, I had a teacher one year who was explaining the course outline for the year, and came across one topic that was 'based on previous year learning'.
The whole class put up their hands and said "We never learned that". His response was "You should have. Too bad." And he proceeded to ignore that prerequisite for the year - leading to the class organizing 'cheat sessions' for the homework (copies of last years' students workbooks). Cheat session which I never had / took advantage of, unfortunately, leaving me out in the dirt...

What I hated in school:
- too many people
- too much verbal instructions, teaching mostly in words
- too few clear rules
- teachers allowed for bullying
- chaotic lessons
- beginning o the mornings
- lack of discussion

I regret that my Mum didn't agree to Individual Learning Program for me. I think that ILP would be the best for me. Or at least classes of small number of people (f.e. 5). I had horrible depression because of school.
I'd like to have more visual lesson, with many pictures, thoughtmaps, charts. I understand almost nothing when somebody explain by speaking without any picture.
If something is interesting, I'd like to discuss it, ask for more. Some teachers think that I'm rude and I want to check their knowledge and laugh at them. I want to get answers for my questions. And when I ask Does X works like Y? I mean what I said, I don't want an explain how Y works. So teacher explain how Y works and I reply Ok. So does X works like Y? and I'm thought as rude.
I'd like to work more alone, less in teams. Ya, I know it's important to learn how to work in groups, but these groups don't have to be so big. 2 persons is enough.
I'd like to have online board with fresh infos what and when. I want to know about all the changes without having friends. I don't have friends and I'm often out of infos, because nobody told me.
I want clear rules - this is allowed, this not. I hate when it depends on who did something.

True, but if, as you seemed to suggest, children can eat whatever they like whenever they like, they're not going to learn to eat healthily.

It has also occurred to me that any school for special needs students needs to be extra vigilant regarding the hiring of staff. The students are known to be vulnerable, so bullies are going to apply for jobs in these schools.

Actually, they will learn to eat healthy, provided that the choices they're presented with contain no artificial flavors and no ridiculously oversweet things. Humans have been shown to crave the foods that will provide the nutrients they need-- but the chemicals that have been specially formulated to appeal to humans disrupt this because that's what they've been designed to do. All that's needed is a wide range of foods, a minimal system of monitoring to alert parents to severe problems and a rather short banned list, which I propose should be as follows:
MSG (besides that which occurs naturally)
Refined white sugar
Chocolate below 30% cacao content
High-fructose corn syrup
Sucralose
Aspartame
Anything made of sugar and intended as something of substance (like fudge or lolipops)

That leaves a huge range to choose from, and you don't have to worry about "teaching" the kids to eat healthy; they'll do that on their own if they aren't confused by flavors people weren't meant to deal with. And it will give them practice planning out what they'll eat. Maybe cooking could even be an elective class, saving money on cooks while further benefiting the students.

And no, I didn't go to a school just like Magneto is suggesting. Magneto is suggesting a school that respects students and doesn't suck; that is entirely unlike what I have experience with. But I did go to a school, and know someone who went to another school, that was specifically for AS/NLD.

Are there any postitive points that Magneto's proposed academy can take from other schools? I agree that the menu of food choices at most US schools is rather....poor for education, and is mainly designed to be cheap and easy to serve.

The problem with Autistics in schools today is that today's schools teach, rather than ALLOW kids to learn. Focus is entirely on what needs improvement rather than forgetting about that, and focusing on strengths alone.

Perfect school for Autistics:

Teachers are there primarily to learn, not to teach.

Teachers learn WITH the children, who create their own activities and curriculum on the fly. Totally free form learning, and no grades.

No testing, no quizzing. No questions from teachers, only from students.

Praise for jobs well done. Ignore the rest. All that stuff that needs to improve will if they're allowed to focus on what they love. They'll figure out on their own that to continue doing what they love as adults, they'll need those other skills too, and love of what they are good at will eventually drive them to become better at those things they aren't so good at, or don't like so much.

I cordially disagree, MrXxx. That would indeed facilitate a great deal of learning, but:

1. In some instances, it's simply not possible for students to learn by doing or by any means other than being taught. Can you imagine expecting students to not only come up with the idea for but then execute Rutherford's gold foil experiment? Plus, a teacher can point out wrong paths that have already been found to be dead ends, though exploring them again may possibly prove fruitful.
2. Although learning to use your strengths is very important, letting areas of weakness fall ever further behind will end up hindering you unless those weaknesses are ridiculously obscure. Though for areas of extreme weakness it should probably be acceptable to remain somewhat behind and not continue to try to achieve an average prowess, there should be some exposure to and use of weak abilities so they'll become stronger. Subjects tend to blur into one another, after all, so it might become essential to have this skill to make full use of a strength.
3. History is not learnable by messing around on your own, at least not without books, which in my opinion constitutes some degree of teaching.
4. Students don't know enough to create their own curriculum. You need to at least know what you don't know, which requires a cursory knowledge of the subject.
5. If you have no grades, no tests and no quizzes, how do you know what they can do? Even a very informal "test" that consists entirely of observation is still a test.
6. Beware of reversals. I underwent some tests when I was five, and if I hadn't known whose the results were, I would have expected a radically different person from looking over them. At that point I was good at math (I'm now awful at it) and had difficulty with most anything less cut-and-dried (I'm now a writer, which consists of some sort of starting idea that you take in one of an infinite number of possible directions, essentially making up the whole thing). Though I still love the memorization of facts, I've changed. Had there been the expectation that I would continue to be... well, a stereotypical Aspie, I might have spent too much time second-guessing myself and pushing myself to somehow excel in math. But by the very next year, I was falling behind in math.

This is why I disagree.

My description is brief, and very simplistic compared to the way I actually see what I wrote working. It's more about an overall philosophy than it is about the details. A huge part of the problem with current school systems for Aspies is that they are far too wrapped up in details, and miss the bigger picture.

I'm not saying learning shouldn't be guided at all. I'm saying the kids should be the ones showing the teachers where their interests and strengths lie and their curriculum should be tailored to that.

Much of the philosophy is derived from what worked, and what did not work, for me, and continues to be the same with my own kids. Keeping track of where their lacks are, and putting more effort into them to bring them "up to par" with their strengths, is what creates 99% of the frustration they have with school, and the biggest part of why they hate it. Focusing on bring my weaknesses up to par never did squat for me. I never got any better at most of it anyway, because I hated doing it that much. Even those weaknesses I did make slight improvements in were a waste of time and emotional energy to work on, because the moment I could get away with not using those skills, I quit using them anyway.

It wasn't until I became an adult and was finally able to choose for myself what to learn, when to learn it, and how to learn it, that I found the freedom to pursue whatever I wanted in my own time. Once I began to pursue what truly interested me, and had passion for, I discovered, as with all things one pursues, there were skills associated with it I needed to learn in order to continue pursuing the parts I loved. So, I did. But it required having the motivation to do it, and that came from wanting to do what I really loved most to its fullest.

The way schooling is structured now doesn't work that way. What we may be very good at is taught in one class, if we're lucky enough for it to be taught at all. The things we aren't so good at are taught in another. I can tell you from personal experience, it was extremely difficult to make the connection between what was taught in one class and what was taught in another. That lack of understanding why I should even give a crap about the things I didn't like, is what led to so much frustration and hatred of school.

If the main focus is on strengths alone, the students will eventually figure out they need some skill they are not so good at to pursue that which they love most and are better at, and will be more willing to learn that which they are not as good at. Once that internal motivation begins to surface, it's far easier to teach them the things they didn't want to do before, because now they do.

You asked if there were no grades or testing, how we could know what they can do. Fair question. The answer is:

The same way we know whether or not people can do their jobs as adults. Most jobs do not require periodic testing. Most adults are judged by whether or not they can actually perform their jobs. We are judged in the real world by what we produce. Yes, many things are tracked in the real world, especially in production financial and scientific fields. When I said "no testing" I did not necessarily mean no testing at all. I do mean though, that for Autistics, it should not look or feel like testing. Evaluating what and how much they are learning should be done very differently from how it is done with non-autistic kids.

My point is that we need to throw out current paradigms when dealing with autistic kids because they do not think, behave or react to the world around them the way non autistic kids to. We need to think entirely outside the box. Forget what works with all the other kids, because what works for them doesn't work well at all for kids on the spectrum.

I mean a good school for an entirely autistic population would begin by totally throwing away every concept being currently used, and build from the ground up.

My comment about teachers becoming students has to do with learning who their students are. Accepting who they are, and learning to work with them as they are, instead of trying to figure out how they can fit into a system they clearly do not fit into. That begins with the educators first learning what autism is, and what each student is like.

It doesn't matter either whether the teachers are NT or autistic themselves. Since everyone on the spectrum is different anyway, simply being autistic doesn't give one automatic knowledge of what each student's autism is like. There would be a learning curve for all teachers. Over time, they would learn what to look for in each child, and become better at allowing each student to learn.

And that's the lynch pin of my philosophy toward "teaching" autistic kids. Don't "teach" them! ALLOW them to learn!

Keep in mind, the OP asked how we would do it from a "blank slate." What he's asking for isn't "how would you make things work in the current system?" He's asking for our altruistic view of how it should be done. Mine is from my own view in a perfect world, where everyone is taught in ways that are most beneficial to each individual, specifically in a school with a 100% autistic student population.

My view isn't necessarily about what would work in the world as it is, but as I think it should be.

Then I agree with most of what you've said.

I'm coming at this from a background where I've been my own teacher quite often, by the way. I think we all have, but for me it's especially of note.

I have had one experience where I can say I'm glad someone sat down with me mostly against my will and started working on a weak point with me. But that was something I knew was coming, taught by a teacher I knew and had a good relationship with, and taught in the best way possible. It also took the time I'd had in my last class with that teacher, with no break between, so it also played off of my established routine. But I'm glad of it, because left to my own devices I would not have learned what I know, and I do need to know it. I'm still behind; I'm still despairing; the subject is still something I struggle horribly with. But I'm an order of magnitude better at it, and very glad of that.

On another note, there really needs to be less emphasis on teaching the process for doing things and more emphasis on doing what you need to do to get results. Teachers should tell students about the options so they're not totally swamped, but the emphasis needs to be (at least in math) on getting results. Process shouldn't be graded; there should be less emphasis on showing your work. Although it can allow a teacher to see where you've gone wrong, it's downright impossible to show work you didn't do, and for some of us there's only one step to solving certain problems, and that's writing down the answer. We make leaps. I do, anyway, and it's annoying because I know I have a perfect deductive argument that I've completely skipped over.

Also, no one should be an idiot or make stupid rules. Case in point: my school doesn't like you to keep your backpack lest you use it to cheat. They use tests consisting entirely of questions taken straight from the textbook (yes, the student edition). No. Do not do this. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200. You FAIL.

Especially Aspies really need not to have stupid rules. Rules are fine. I could their paranoia about what my library book about schizophrenia might tell me about the periodic table... if they showed a consistent level of paranoia.

One to one mentoring.

Individual projects on special interest topics.

Hands on practical activities.
Less abstraction and boardwork.
Freedom to walk around the room/fiddle

Uncrowded room.

The freedom to be creative.
Create new songs, dances and works of art.

Freedom to improvise.

Sign language, sign supported spoken words, gesturing


Lego.


Teaching coastal marine ecology; littoral zone sedimentation deposition and erosion; rip currents, seawave breakers (plunging, spilling); tides; rip currents; offshore/onshore breezes; longshore drift by taking students body surfing. The sand could be used as a "blackboard" and illustrative diagrams could be drawn in the sand with a stick.

Freedom to experiment.

Freedom to find links between different subjects.

Use music structure as a tool to help with learning quantitive and pattern based subjects: Mathematics, Chemistry, Physics, Geometry etc.

Science therapy?

Calming sensory learning environments: indoor planetariums; greenhouses; illuminated inflatable sculptures to walk around inside (e.g. The "Eggopolis")

Using fiddle toys, stress balls, ballsports, rocking horses, marble rollercoasters, dominoes and physiotherapy to teach Physics and Biomechanics concepts.

The freedom to dance and be taught physical education/fitness without ridicule.
Constructive criticsm based on real performance. Not vague, unhelpful or disparaging remarks like:

"You'll never make it.", "Can't put my finger on it, but you move weirdly.", "You'll never be good at anything.", "You're a quiet one aren't you? You should talk more." or "You look strange."

Teaching/learning using the language of objects.

Use of visuals, music, drumming, animation, storytelling, chanting and rhythm to memorise difficult concepts.

Freedom to learn from mistakes without being pressured to get everything 100% right 100% of the time.

Freedom to explore the structures and architecture of play equipment in novel ways.

The freedom to florish without peer pressure and find one's own path.

If children are only presented with healthy choices, they won't learn to make these choices. Once they leave school, they will have all foods available to choose from, not just healthy ones. That's why they need to be taught to make healthy choices.

There is also the issue of dietary intolerances that many people on the autism spectrum have. These people need to know what ingredients are not suitable for them, and which ones are not. They need to know which foods contain the ingredients that they can't tolerate. It makes sense to teach them all this when they're young.
Some of them need to learn how to shop so that they can get a healthy diet that they like. If there is a range of ingredients that you can't have, it is not easy to do your weekly shopping. You have to be careful all the time about the contents of the foods you buy. Sometimes, you can't even find enough to buy in ordinary shops. For people with food intolerances as well as an ASD, shopping is a difficult life skill to learn.
Coming back to the issue of a canteen in a school for ASD kids, the foods would need to be clearly labelled so that each child would know which ones they can and can't have.

Funny how I'm so often told by NT's I'm full of massive amounts of "TMI." "Give it to me in bullets," they tell me. "Boil it down," they tell me. Yet almost every time I do that, people don't get what I'm really saying. I'm just not good at the sound bites, because when they come from me, they are never clear.

Now you've got my real point though.

MrXxx, can you be the bigger, more mature person and not fight with EVERYONE in half the interesting active topics?

Shopping is another thing entirely, and food intolerances do complicate things. That's one argument for using as little preparation as possible-- if you're allergic to something, it does make it easier to see it.

Of course you would want to teach nutritional science, and they will be exposed to unhealthy things at home. I've already argued against a boarding school, and I think that's an absolute no, never, would not work, not even for some students. They'll be exposed to all sorts of unhealthy foods at home.

What exactly are you proposing as an alternative? I'm not certain I fully understand, but I'd like to.

As for testing for food allergies, a seasonally varying menu would allow you to notice if their health deteriorated, say, when the new harvest of strawberries came in. But they'll be eating breakfast and dinner at home, too.

And I approve of clearly listing ingredients, and preferably in big print. It would be neat to also include information about the amounts of vitamins, like they do on the labels of processed foods.

Some type of cooking fat (I prefer coconut oil) should be made available to everyone, for dealing with having your skin crack and bleed; there should also be other stuff available for allergic reactions.

I have no idea where this is coming from.

In this particular instance, DandelionFireworks misunderstood some of what I said in my first post, because i wasn't very clear or detailed. I offered clearer detail, after which she mostly agreed. My third post was an affirmation that she understood what I meant before, with a few comments about why the misunderstanding happened in the first place. All very cordial on both our parts as far as I could see.

I do not understand why you feel the need to imply I'm fighting with anyone, in this thread or anywhere else for that matter. If there is something, anything about my style of posting that offends you, I have no clue to what it is. I do not expect to be agreed with by everyone. But this comment, from my perspective, is coming from left field.

I don't believe I've ever directly addressed you until now, so I'm frankly baffled as to why you should have any problem at all with me. If we have spoken before, and I've forgotten, I apologize. My memory is not the best in the world.

But this has nothing to do with the topic at hand, so what say we let the thread go where it should now?