Just how much pressure do women feel to look pretty?

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There are several problems with your logic here. You not only assume that there are an equal number of males and females in this world but you also assume there are an equal number of unnatractive women and incompetent men. There are a multitude of other subgroups within the genders and the distribution of mates between those groups is far from symmetrical. Some groups hold monopolies and can choose freely while others go without.

You also assume that the the ability of each group to gain mates has some correlation with the other group's ability to gain mates, as though when one does, so does the other... Which ignores the fact that other groups exist besides unattractive females and incompetent males, so one group can gain mates from those others without it having any effect on the second group.

Another false assumption is that unnatractive females being taken as mates by a group of averagely competent males has some effect on the number of incompetent males with mates, as though there is any inherent correlation between the success of this third group and the success of incompetent males. Of course, other than leaving them less available mates, there is no such correlative effect or influential link.

You assume that if a group of average males scooped up all the unattractive females, that the incompetent males would still be able to find mates simply because they could look for a group of average females. Clearly ignoring the fact that average females are less willing to accept incompetent males, than the average males are willing to accept unattractive females. Your assumption that the two inferior groups must all necessarily find partners in equal numbers is complete nonsense when other additional groups are in play.

You flat out ignore the varying prevalence of asexuality within each gender. Considering my post was about the relative pressure of men and women to live up to certain standards, your assumption that they are both equally driven to meet those standards presents another flaw. It is a well documented fact that the female desire to reproduce is barely even comparable to that of the male in terms of intensity and frequency. You have ignored this fact and simply assumed that it doesn't make any difference in the pressure they experience. Males are far more frequently reminded by their bodies they have a job to do, that reminder is more pronounced, and is a source of greater pressure driving them to seek out even an unattractive mate. Females are more readily willing to behave asexually and not even try to find a mate if the options look bleak. They are nowhere near as driven and thus the pressure they face is negligible in comparison.

I could go on but your argument is basically meaningless and apparently based on nothing but objectional emotions and an irrational desire to assert irrelevant and false notions of equality, in spite of their conflict with factual reality, rather than basing your argument on any form of logical thought. And there are certainly no "statistics" there. Using that word simply to lend credibility to your subjective feelings, when it does not apply, does not work.

your basic premise is so ridiculous that there isn't any point in arguing further; you are comparing apples to oranges, with no way to objectively rate either one. who is more 'competent' and who is more 'attractive'? because it isn't universal, even on this board. so when you state that it is harder for certain groups of men compared to women, you are simply using your own filters for comparison. perhaps it is based on personal experience?

like every person, you are not capable of objectively rating either criteria, and i noticed that you have exactly zero statistics or research studies to back up your claims.

I was wondering the same thing, but my guess is in this case:
- Attractive female: pretty face, stick-thin, long hair, wears girly/trendy clothes, good conversationalist, has a sense of humor, AND independent and confident--but knows when to shut up and look pretty
- Competent male: a man's man, has money, OR knows how to make a girl laugh

It's theoretically possible for Invader to find statistical evidence for men and women based on these criteria (and his own judgment), but even if he did all the legwork himself it doesn't make the "study" as valid as he likes to be.

I don't know if I can explain how much pressure I feel to look pretty. And a lot of that is just to be skinny...I felt a lot less pressured when I was thin. I put on weight because I had to take steroids for a health condition, and I still get sh** for not being thin.

For myself, none, because I don't wish to rise (or rather sink) to those standards in the first place. I have no desire to be 95lbs and have size H breasts. But for other women, I see it affects them pretty badly. Even the slimmest healthiest women with the most optimum body build seem to criticize themselves all the time. It's like it's morally wrong to not hate yourself, where looks are concerned. I once complimented a girl on being 'heavy and powerful'. I've always wanted more muscle and I see that as a good thing. The way she reacted, you would have thought she had just been told she had cancer. And it didn't seem like a childish tantrum, it seemed like genuine pain at being so hopelessly far away from an ideal that was desperately important to her.

Next time someone bugs you for not being thin, you should say openly 'I'm heavy 'cause I had to take steroids for ages so I didn't die, you rude as*hole'. That's what I'd do, anyway. But you seem more courteous than me..I have a quickfire temper and more than my fair share of aggression.

Haha I've pretty much tried. People are just too stupid, they think I can just stop eating and lose weight.

Ugh. That sucks.

Not everyone can. Some people eat normally but store more of it as fat.

How long before those things wear off, and you will lose the weight?

Yup. People suck because they assume that every person that is heavy is that way because they don't diet and exercise. I'm 5'4" and the smallest I have ever been was 148 pounds at age 16 and people STILL thought I was fat. Guys would pick on me and pretend to ask me out as an initiation into the "cool guys" group. Apparently, how I reacted pended their membership. So yes, there is A LOT of pressure on women to look attractive because men and society in general can't accept a woman that is bigger than a size 4.

Thought as much. When a request to logically support your argument is made, you give up, because it's impossible for you to do so. In the future please don't use terms like "statistically speaking" to sound informed when you're just senselessly ranting to relieve irrelevant frustrations which are based on neither statistics nor rational thought.

Way too much pressure--just go to the mall and see all the clothes on display that most women can't fit into!

I know right? Seriously. And if you're heavy, you're stuck wearing clothes made for grandmas. Can't they make cute clothes for bigger girls? They'd make more money that way. D:

Erisad, that "picking on you and pretending to ask you out" is really disturbing. Could you describe it in more detail? I'm surprised that this sort of thing would happen.

There's not much to say but I'll elaborate the best I can. Most of this happened in middle school.

Guys would refer to me as a monster because I was bigger than they were at the time and would instigate fights with me. I would win and then I'd get in trouble even though they threw the first punch. :/

As for the other part, I'd be sitting at lunch minding my own business and some guy I don't know would come up to me, tell me I'm pretty and ask me out. Most of the time they'd be trying to keep themselves from laughing. I would tell them off and they'd retreat to their table, high fiving each other. I don't get it. I guess they were trying to get a reaction from me but it's so stupid. I never even fell for it once so I don't see how any of them felt like they were successful. I guess their acceptance was based on how pissed off I got. Sometimes I would curse them out, other times I'd just say "no" and go back to my lunch.

My middle school band instructor saw this happen once and invited me to eat in the band room so I wouldn't have to deal with everyone's BS. I ate in the band room up through high-school so I became friends with the band kids, who were much nicer.

i've highlighted your unproven claims.... the onus is on you to prove your original claims with some sort of research or statistics. or don't. whatever.

I would probably find some way to embarrass the kid. That s**t is just wrong....even for kids.