Should having friends be a "fundamental right"?

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jc6chan
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24 Oct 2010, 6:01 pm

Asp-Z wrote:
jc6chan wrote:
Its kinda stupid how friendship needs to be "earned" like getting a driver's license or getting a job.


Not really. Friendship is about trust and you can't just automatically trust everyone.

But still, it feels weird. You hear of people who get unemployed or people who suck at driving and fail to get their driver's licence even after a few tries. But for some reason no one judges them and they are still seen as "having their humanity". But if people find out you have no friends, they look at you weird and they think that you are some sort of psycho whom the only reason why they consider you human is because they can see that you are physically taking the form of a human being. But I guess thats how our society works.



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24 Oct 2010, 6:28 pm

There is no such thing as a 'fundamental right' to anything. Nature guarantees you nothing, not even your next breath, much less friendship. If you want anything in life, from food to shelter to sex, you must learn to acquire it on your own, or do without, no matter how difficult the process may be for you to learn. For humans, there is a long period during which much of this acquisition is done by parents and family, but ultimately you're on your own.

There is nothing that says you are to be prevented from having friends, but if you want those bonds and relationships, you have to forge them, they aren't handed to you. The more singular and unique your own personality, the longer it may take for you to find individuals with whom you have enough commonalities to bond and form a deep friendship. Even so, a friend or two doesn't change the fact that one has to deal with the rest of humanity on a daily basis, and if you have a marked social dysfunction, you're still going to deal with a lot of feelings of alienation and loneliness. A humble self-confidence and the ability to laugh at oneself helps on both counts.

The notion that 'The Ministry of Happy Mental Health' is going to send an agent to your door with a couple of smiling idiots and say "Here are your personal government-issued friends" so that you can automatically live happily ever after is just ridiculous. Human relationships don't work that way. People are drawn to each other by a mutual recognition of common interests, which tends to happen by accident and coincidence. I know sometimes it seems like one is alone forever, but as long as you don't stay holed up in your room hiding from the world all the time (some of the time that's necessary), you'll hit it off with someone eventually.


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24 Oct 2010, 6:41 pm

Avengilante wrote:
The notion that 'The Ministry of Happy Mental Health' is going to send an agent to your door with a couple of smiling idiots and say "Here are your personal government-issued friends" so that you can automatically live happily ever after is just ridiculous.


Actually, they do just that in England, according to what I've read. The professionals are called "befrienders" and they're just one of the support staff that some people with asperger's are able to get.


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24 Oct 2010, 6:48 pm

Not having friends should be a "fundamental right".

I remember my middle school days when, because I spend all my time in playground alone, I was harassed both by teachers and the other children (when I asked to the other children why they were always teasing and bullying me, their answer was "because you don't play with us"; but why they wanted to force me to play with them?).

I also remember my parents trying to force me to go out, make friends, join clubs, etc., when I only wanted to be in my room daydreaming or reading my books.

Then, I defend the fundamental right to "not having friends", is this is your option.



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24 Oct 2010, 7:05 pm

Avengilante wrote:
There is no such thing as a 'fundamental right' to anything. Nature guarantees you nothing, not even your next breath, much less friendship. If you want anything in life, from food to shelter to sex, you must learn to acquire it on your own, or do without, no matter how difficult the process may be for you to learn. For humans, there is a long period during which much of this acquisition is done by parents and family, but ultimately you're on your own.

There is nothing that says you are to be prevented from having friends, but if you want those bonds and relationships, you have to forge them, they aren't handed to you. The more singular and unique your own personality, the longer it may take for you to find individuals with whom you have enough commonalities to bond and form a deep friendship. Even so, a friend or two doesn't change the fact that one has to deal with the rest of humanity on a daily basis, and if you have a marked social dysfunction, you're still going to deal with a lot of feelings of alienation and loneliness. A humble self-confidence and the ability to laugh at oneself helps on both counts.

The notion that 'The Ministry of Happy Mental Health' is going to send an agent to your door with a couple of smiling idiots and say "Here are your personal government-issued friends" so that you can automatically live happily ever after is just ridiculous. Human relationships don't work that way. People are drawn to each other by a mutual recognition of common interests, which tends to happen by accident and coincidence. I know sometimes it seems like one is alone forever, but as long as you don't stay holed up in your room hiding from the world all the time (some of the time that's necessary), you'll hit it off with someone eventually.


Two things I like about your post: you take responsibility for your own life and you don't think other people exist mainly to accommodate you/live their lives as you think they should. Both rare qualities.


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24 Oct 2010, 7:18 pm

XFilesGeek wrote:
We don't all have common needs and desires.

We certainly do. All human beings have needs and desires for food, clothing, shelter, companionship and so on, and some of us even more-so than others ... and no human being can provide all of those things for himself or herself.

XFilesGeek wrote:
You may desire a friend, but if he doesn't desire you as a friend, your desires are not "common."

Both people still desire the same, just not with/from each other.

XFilesGeek wrote:
People are allowed to not be your friend for any reason they wish.

Sure, but that does not make that right.

XFilesGeek wrote:
You have yet to establish you have a "right to friendship" in the first place.

I do not have any right to *demand* your friendship, but we each do have an obligation to "be there" for others.

XFilesGeek wrote:
My definition of friendship requires you earn it.

Always and only on your terms, or by what other standard might you judge someone worthy?


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hale_bopp
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24 Oct 2010, 7:22 pm

Is this thread a joke?



jc6chan
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24 Oct 2010, 7:47 pm

hale_bopp wrote:
Is this thread a joke?

not really. I seriously feel like a victim of society for not having real close friends.



jc6chan
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24 Oct 2010, 7:50 pm

Ok, so if something is wrong with your body, a person has the right to go see a doctor (I guess this is only totally true for universal healthcare) and see whats wrong. If a person is depressed and they feel that talking to someone would make them feel better why don't they have the right to a set of "friends" to talk to?



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24 Oct 2010, 8:21 pm

So what are you going to do when people do not want to be your friend?


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24 Oct 2010, 8:24 pm

jc6chan wrote:
Ok, so if something is wrong with your body, a person has the right to go see a doctor (I guess this is only totally true for universal healthcare) and see whats wrong. If a person is depressed and they feel that talking to someone would make them feel better why don't they have the right to a set of "friends" to talk to?


Most people in the western world who have access to a doctor also have access to a therapist. There is the "friend" to talk to when feeling depressed.


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24 Oct 2010, 8:33 pm

Sparrowrose wrote:
Avengilante wrote:
The notion that 'The Ministry of Happy Mental Health' is going to send an agent to your door with a couple of smiling idiots and say "Here are your personal government-issued friends" so that you can automatically live happily ever after is just ridiculous.


Actually, they do just that in England, according to what I've read. The professionals are called "befrienders" and they're just one of the support staff that some people with asperger's are able to get.


That's really pretty amazing. I have to admit I've wished there was some kind service where you could get someone to go see a movie with you or a concert. I would even be willing to pay someone for my own convenience if I thought they might actually enjoy hanging out with me a little... :oops:



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24 Oct 2010, 8:52 pm

leejosepho wrote:
We certainly do. All human beings have needs and desires for food, clothing, shelter, companionship and so on, and some of us even more-so than others ... and no human being can provide all of those things for himself or herself.


And still, these desires are hardly the "same." I doubt I "desire" the same food as an African tribesman.

Quote:
Sure, but that does not make that right.


Someone not wanting to be your friend is neither right nor wrong, unless you were planning on forcing others to be your "friend."

Quote:
I do not have any right to *demand* your friendship, but we each do have an obligation to "be there" for others.


I most certainly do not, especially if the "other" is some random person who I don't even know demanding that I "be there" for him/her.

Quote:
Always and only on your terms, or by what other standard might you judge someone worthy?


The qualities I look for in a friend are quite extensive. I compromise as needed in various situations.


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24 Oct 2010, 9:34 pm

space_cadett wrote:
Sparrowrose wrote:
Avengilante wrote:
The notion that 'The Ministry of Happy Mental Health' is going to send an agent to your door with a couple of smiling idiots and say "Here are your personal government-issued friends" so that you can automatically live happily ever after is just ridiculous.


Actually, they do just that in England, according to what I've read. The professionals are called "befrienders" and they're just one of the support staff that some people with asperger's are able to get.


That's really pretty amazing. I have to admit I've wished there was some kind service where you could get someone to go see a movie with you or a concert. I would even be willing to pay someone for my own convenience if I thought they might actually enjoy hanging out with me a little... :oops:


To be honest, I would love to have a befriender, even though I'd know it was an artificial situation. A befriender would not only help me feel less lonely, but they could teach me important things about boundaries, how to make new friends, etc. Often someone with a befriender willt ake them to the pub or a social club meeting so the befriender can act as a sort of "social wing man", helping the individual learn how to approach and befriend people on their own.

http://www.autism.org.uk/our-services/s ... nding.aspx


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24 Oct 2010, 10:21 pm

Nothing is a right in regards to friendship and dating when it involves a choice like this of someone else.

No-one should feel they have to be friends with someone
No-one should feel they have to date someone

You can't force people to be your friends of date you out of their own free will, you can't. What are they going to get out of a one sided friendship? Nothing, so they don't.

Just like you can't force someone to give you their icecream because you are upset that you don't have one. The most you will ever get are pity friends/partners/icecreams and thats not because they actually like you.



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25 Oct 2010, 5:04 am

jc6chan wrote:
Ok, so if something is wrong with your body, a person has the right to go see a doctor (I guess this is only totally true for universal healthcare) and see whats wrong. If a person is depressed and they feel that talking to someone would make them feel better why don't they have the right to a set of "friends" to talk to?


Because it would violate other peoples right not to be their friend.

There's a saying "My right to extend my arm ends where your nose begins."


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