"The Power of Now" by Eckhart Tolle - as an Aspie
So this could be a bit of a reach but I think its worth suggesting. I realize I can only speculate and theorize on what would be like to be an N/T but its very clear to me that N/T's seem to be able to float through life and while they can think, they don't let themselves get bogged down with thoughts.
Do you see the point I am making. Both Aspies and N/T's can think. Aspies use it to their advantage but also to their disadvantage. N/T's possibly only use it to their advantage. Because they know they are most productive when they are in autopilot non-thinking mode.
Yes, I would definitely agree with that. I understand what you meant by your earlier post now. I expect that NTs don't have to try to be in the moment so much, whereas I do. So, there could be a more natural baseline ability of 'fluid' living in NTs, where aspies might have more of a preference for 'being' in abstract thought.
OK, that makes more sense to me too. (I think?) At least, I do like to "be" in abstract thought. I also think that I am alone so much of the time that I am usually thinking to myself- a running dialogue, if you will (or monologue ) whereas other people might be having more conversations during the day, so they are expressing the thoughts they think. Don´t know if that makes any sense at all, I might just be rambling.....
Also, if you are a systemizer, you might be having little thoughts, or making judgments about things that others don´t- (I know I´m like this). For me, that can be something that holds me back from truly enjoying the moment.
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"death is the road to awe"
Also, if you are a systemizer, you might be having little thoughts, or making judgments about things that others don´t- (I know I´m like this). For me, that can be something that holds me back from truly enjoying the moment.
You are so not alone and because that is so much my tendency. I am the greatest systemizer ever. But now I say **ck the system, systemizing is overrated !
Let me start by saying please forgive me for digging up this thread when no one has posted on it for a while. I am a parent of a 5 yo HFA boy and I have been learning about mindfulness and Buddhism for myself and as I learn more I have started to see how the concepts might be helpful to teach my son as he grows. I guess I myself am NT though the more I have read and learned about autism, the more autistic traits I see in myself and my husband (self-fulfilling prophecy? I don't know). What has struck me most is the discussion of perspective. The few books I have read discuss the idea that what any of us perceive is not fact, that we each have our own perspective. I am drawn to this idea because over on the parent's forum there has been a lot of discussion about how many children's "behavior problems", as percieved by adults, are rooted is a total misunderstanding of the child's perspective on a given situation. Do any of you who are interested in or practice mindfulness think that it has helped you develop any understanding of other peoples' perspective or a better understanding of your on perspective?
It definitely has given me a better understanding of myself, and I know why, but I can't work out how it's helped me to understand others better. It certainly seems that I do, but I can't describe the mechanism...
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I don´t know if I have a better understanding about the perspectives of others, but I do notice that I am more *aware* of the fact that people perceive things differently than I do, and that this different perception can affect not only their experience, but also how we interact with each other. This has been a revelation for me! For instance, I used to think that if someone criticized me about something, then what they said was "fact". But I learned that sometimes people may have other reasons for saying things that are not based on fact; for instance, maybe the person had a difficult day and was blowing off steam and didn´t really "mean it", or maybe I hurt the person unknowingly and they were lashing back. I learned this by reading the book "The Four Agreements" several years ago- that book changed my life! In writing this, I realize now that this may actually be a basic concept that most people know, but I never really knew this before. I tended to just take everything literally (in addition to the fact that when I talk to other people, I tell the truth as I perceive it; I don´t tend to say things for "other reasons", so it never occurred to me that other people might do this to me). In any case, knowing this has also changed my own perception about myself. That was just one example of perception: so, actually, the answer to your question is "yes", I do think more about different perspectives through studying mindfulness. (I learned other things from reading that book too).
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"death is the road to awe"
Thanks for your response. I think the basic concept that other people's perception is different from one's own is something that most people DON'T know. Or maybe they "know" it in a superficial way but don't use that knowledge to any advantage such as interacting with others in a better way. I am hopeful right now that learning mindfulness and putting it into practice in my own life and helping my sons (one NT and one HFA) put it into practice in theirs will be a benefit to us all and will help us communicate better by recognizing the difference in point of view.
As Eckhart Tolle would be the first to say, his teachings are not new nor are they unique to him. Different cultures throughout history have had some of the same spiritual insights and teachers have tried to communicate these teachings using the terms available to them from their language and culture. Unfortunately this always results in some people misunderstanding the message by getting hung up on the details of the words used to communicate the message. Sometimes they end up worshiping the messenger. Spiritual teachings are by their nature ineffable. Such teachings cannot be accurately communicated by words but only hinted at. There is a famous saying that Zen Buddhism is like the finger pointing at the moon. Alan Watts said many people instead suck the finger for comfort.
To answer your question, I have Asperger's and have found that the insights shared by Tolle do help me cope with existence. Most of our pain is self-inflicted and isn't even due to what is happening at the present moment but instead is from our worrying about the past or the future. Most of my teachings have come from Alan Watts, an eclectic scholar and philosopher of the 20th century who was a very entertaining speaker. I don't enjoy reading his books nearly so much as I do listening to him talk. He is a blast to listen to, and I have had lightning flashes of realization several times from listening to Alan Watts talk about these subjects. Many of the same ideas can also be learned from the Hindu saint Ramana Maharshi, or from Buddha, or even from Jesus when read with a certain perspective.
I once made a joke: "Have you heard Eckhart Tolle is writing a new book? Do you know when it will be published? NOW!"
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"When you ride over sharps, you get flats!"--The Bicycling Guitarist, May 13, 2008
It can be thought of as when one is turning a steering wheel. As one side goes up, the other side goes down. Alan Watts described how when recognizes oneness with the cosmos, sometimes it can feel like you're omnipotent making everything happen, and other times that you are a puppet and everything is pushing you around, but it is actually the same experience described from different perspectives.
The American guru Gangaji, who represents herself as continuing the teachings of the Hindu saint Ramana Maharshi, described how someone can witness their pain, go into its core, and sometimes that can become an ecstatic experience. There were some personal testimonies of this technique on some of her videos. I watched a few of her videos and was impressed at how, like Ramana Maharshi, she addressed each person at the level of where they were coming from, but redirected them to here and now (as if we really need to be redirected to where and when we are; that is the most ironic part about these spiritual teachings!)
One source of misunderstanding is that sometimes Ramana Maharshi would say things that appear to contradict each other, unless one realizes the context of their referring to different levels of spiritual awareness. This is another example of the weakness of language to communicate spiritual teachings. Ramana Maharshi's strongest teachings were in silence. Buddha once just held up a flower as his sermon.
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"When you ride over sharps, you get flats!"--The Bicycling Guitarist, May 13, 2008
I recommend the book if you are an Aspie. I read it before I had any clue that I was an Aspie, a few years ago and while I tried to apply its teachings I didn't realize that I had greater barriers to overcome than others.
At the risk of oversimplifying, the essence of the book is to teach people about the voice in their head (which is a form of "thinking") and how to ignore the voice, limit the amount of thinking you do, and separate thoughts and the voice from your identity. So, now that I'm pretty sure I am an Aspie, what I have figured out is that this is much more difficult for me because that voice is particularly strong. And perhaps also, without the voice in an Aspies head, and without all the thoughts running rampant all the time, there seems to be complete emptiness. Whereas for most others, and according to Tolle, there is an entire universe out there to experience sans thinking, sans the voice.
I was absolutely blown away by the book whereas others that are N/T were kind of like, "Yeah, I knew all that stuff, its kind of obvious". For me it was something so profound and unexpected, and mostly counter-intuitive.
So, if you are an Aspie and you chose to read this book you can get a lot out of it. What you can learn to do is to at least learn to watch yourselve when you are letting the voice and your thoughts overly dominate your life. In these situations you need to step back and observe the voice and what it wants, maybe even laugh at it occasionally (even if you give into it).
As an Aspie, most of the time the voice and the dominant thoughts will still win (because as an Aspie, I always trust the voice and the thoughts out of habit) but as long as one is aware that this is what is really going on, one can probably limit the damage.
This is not something I would ever want to try. It's not that I need to think less, most people need to think more. And how are my thoughts not my identity? Without thoughts, I am nothing.
I agree, I really don't think this stuff is something NTs just 'get' or do naturally... mostly I describe my adventures in meditation and they don't get it. These ideas are subtle and hard to transmit in connectively meaningful ways. They may go "ahh, yeah yeah, I get what you mean, I do that all the time", but the difference between Joe Ordinary and an enlightened meditation master is clearly evident.
damn, now i have to observe my mind to watch myself judging your judging. lol, only joking.
I agree, I really don't think this stuff is something NTs just 'get' or do naturally... mostly I describe my adventures in meditation and they don't get it. These ideas are subtle and hard to transmit in connectively meaningful ways. They may go "ahh, yeah yeah, I get what you mean, I do that all the time", but the difference between Joe Ordinary and an enlightened meditation master is clearly evident.
damn, now i have to observe my mind to watch myself judging your judging. lol, only joking.
I know you said "only joking" but in fact I think this is the heart of the matter Your statement assumes that "I" am judging you. What if you only think "I" am judging you when all "I" am really doing is reciting my grocery list in my head? I am wondering if Aspie's have an innordinate amount of negative self-talk. If that is true, I can see where mindfulness practice could help. Its not to stop thinking it is more to recognize when that thinking is leading one into a thought pattern that isn't accurate. Does that make any sense?
I agree, I really don't think this stuff is something NTs just 'get' or do naturally... mostly I describe my adventures in meditation and they don't get it. These ideas are subtle and hard to transmit in connectively meaningful ways. They may go "ahh, yeah yeah, I get what you mean, I do that all the time", but the difference between Joe Ordinary and an enlightened meditation master is clearly evident.
damn, now i have to observe my mind to watch myself judging your judging. lol, only joking.
I know you said "only joking" but in fact I think this is the heart of the matter Your statement assumes that "I" am judging you. What if you only think "I" am judging you when all "I" am really doing is reciting my grocery list in my head? I am wondering if Aspie's have an innordinate amount of negative self-talk. If that is true, I can see where mindfulness practice could help. Its not to stop thinking it is more to recognize when that thinking is leading one into a thought pattern that isn't accurate. Does that make any sense?
Yes. it makes sense.
I used to have a lot of negative self talk.
I don't really understand Mr. hill-of-beans comment.
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It definitely has given me a better understanding of myself, and I know why, but I can't work out how it's helped me to understand others better. It certainly seems that I do, but I can't describe the mechanism...
Old thread, I know, but I was just reading an article, and it's pertinent to this discussion. I have a good memory.
http://www.noetic.org/noetic/issue-nine ... lasticity/
Simply put, knowing one's self better helps one to know others better.
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